Sound Distraction And Praise Techniques As INEFFECTIVE?

Question:

> It’s also a "response" to a post Ruth Mays made on 4/13/2000. > Jerry’s playing his strawman game again because nobody will talk

to him. > Lynn K.

From your koehler book: "While he’s held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs. Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it’s the bitter end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat performances that will be necessary. When you’re finished and the dog is convinced that he is…" From Frank to lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn: "How fricken sick do you need to be to say a dog chooses to be shocked or pronged or shot in the ass with a sling shot? Chooses it over what? Are you twisted pieces of human refuse offering a dog a selection of torture devices, and observing them indicating their personal preference of pain infliction? I thought the whole idea behind aversion training was that the subject does not choose it. You Lynn thinking people are a bunch of abusive idiots. *YOU* choose to hurt dogs. Fine. But the fact that you want to sell the idea that the dogs that god and human society have entrusted, have gifted to you, are actually empowered by your abuse, is an example of sociopathic illogic beyond anything this ng has yet offered. You’re like some fricken wife beater who actually says "Don’t make me hit you, Bitch!" What part of what backwoods portion of which idiot nation do you people reside in? THE DOG CHOOSES? What is next? we have so far 1. I hurt dogs to save their lives. 2. I hurt dogs to save people’s lives. 3. I hurt dogs to accomodate their choice in being hurt. Just hurt the dogs and don’t try to explain it. Please, you’re scaring me with this stuff. No wonder why you guys get so bent out of shape when others speculate as to your motivation behind hurting dogs. Their speculation seems more plausable then what you yourself offer. You’re so sick, so drunk with your "tools" of power, that you don’t even see the abusive egoism in your explanations. You people are way far gone. It will be 20 years before you’ll be embarrassed or ashamed by what you write in here daily." And here’s a little of what Frank was talking about: "Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens, But You’ll Get Over It." mike duforth, author: "Courteous Canine." "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro manure." "The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House," 1996 William Koehler "Housebreaking problems": Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped with a collar and piece of line so he can’t avoid correction. When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to the place of his error, and hold his head close enough so that he associates his error with the punishment. Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper. It is important to your future relationship that you do not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him. When he’s been spanked, take him outside. Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding and close observation, you will not have to do much punishing. Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost house-broken and then force him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier. The same general techniques of housebreaking apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house. For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and then backslides, the method of correction differs somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the "revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed. The first step of correction is to confine the dog closely in a part of the house when you go away, so that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you no other course than to punish him sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences. If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these "backsliders" will think they’re winning and will continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he’s made so you can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish him again for the same thing. In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the light spanking that some owners seem to think is adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog, as well as the house, if you really pour it on him. Some of the new "breaking scents" on the market can aid in your house-breaking program. One type discourages the dog from even visiting an area. Another encourages him to relieve himself in the area where it is sprinkled. Your pet shop should be able to supply further information on the brands available in your district. Be fair to your dog in what and when you feed him and be consistent in your efforts to housebreak him, and you’ll soon accomplish the job. BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him know you were against his sound effects, even though your reproving didn’t quiet them, so we’ll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start with something more emphatic. We’ll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use his mind rather than his mouth. But you won’t make the permanent impression unless you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control he thus acquires. Make sure these opportunities don’t always come at the same time of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet hour" and pursue his old routines at other times. With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his lesson. As was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the dog’s value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows more discriminating, increase it. The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness because you’re gone constitutes a different problem. If it is impractical for someone to stay with him constantly (there are owners who cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you’ll have to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand. Attach a line to your dog’s collar, so your corrective effort doesn’t turn into a footrace around the house until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the correction will also serve to establish it as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around when you’re not present. Next, equip yourself with a man’s leather belt or a strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good tanning. Yup-we’re going to strike him. Real hard. Remember, you’re dealing with a dog who knows he should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to see that he does. Now leave, and let your fading footsteps tell the dog of your going. When you’ve walked to a point where he’ll think you’re gone but where you could hear any noises he might make, stop and listen. If you find a comfortable waiting place on a nearby porch, be careful not to talk or laugh. Tests show a dog’s hearing to be many times as sharp as yours. When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the door so you can barge in while he’s still barking, which is generally impossible, respond to his first sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep on bellowing as you charge back to his area. Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you’ve conveniently placed, and descend on him. He’ll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or, if he’s a big dog, until you’ve snubbed him up with a hitch on something. While he’s held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs. Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it’s the bitter end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat performances that will be necessary. When you’re finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the area again. So that you won’t feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a great percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell. Personally, I’ve always felt that it’s even better to spank children, even if they "cry out," than to "put them to sleep." You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent correction to his first sound and repeat the spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more. It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another day … read more »

Response:

Hello lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,

> It’s also a "response" to a post Ruth Mays made on 4/13/2000.

Is that so? It’s been in the FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual since long before I ever had the displeasure to run across your dog abusing pal ruthie. > Jerry’s playing his strawman game again because nobody will talk

to him. You got anything to say about my methods? You like to hurt dogs, lying lynn. You told a new foster care giver to leave a long line on their new foster dog in his crate, and to jerk and choke him to keep him quiet. That’s not nice, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. Talk dog training. Here’s your koehler method and some abuse your pals lying frosty dahl and cindy mooreon like to call training: "Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens, But You’ll Get Over It." mike duforth, author: "Courteous Canine."

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro manure." "The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House," 1996 William Koehler "Housebreaking problems": Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped with a collar and piece of line so he can’t avoid correction. When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to the place of his error, and hold his head close enough so that he associates his error with the punishment. Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper. It is important to your future relationship that you do not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him. When he’s been spanked, take him outside. Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding and close observation, you will not have to do much punishing. Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost house-broken and then force him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier. The same general techniques of housebreaking apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house. For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and then backslides, the method of correction differs somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the "revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed. The first step of correction is to confine the dog closely in a part of the house when you go away, so that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you no other course than to punish him sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences. If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these "backsliders" will think they’re winning and will continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he’s made so you can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish him again for the same thing. In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the light spanking that some owners seem to think is adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog, as well as the house, if you really pour it on him. Some of the new "breaking scents" on the market can aid in your house-breaking program. One type discourages the dog from even visiting an area. Another encourages him to relieve himself in the area where it is sprinkled. Your pet shop should be able to supply further information on the brands available in your district. Be fair to your dog in what and when you feed him and be consistent in your efforts to housebreak him, and you’ll soon accomplish the job. BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him know you were against his sound effects, even though your reproving didn’t quiet them, so we’ll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start with something more emphatic. We’ll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use his mind rather than his mouth. But you won’t make the permanent impression unless you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control he thus acquires. Make sure these opportunities don’t always come at the same time of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet hour" and pursue his old routines at other times. With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his lesson. As was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the dog’s value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows more discriminating, increase it. The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness because you’re gone constitutes a different problem. If it is impractical for someone to stay with him constantly (there are owners who cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you’ll have to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand. Attach a line to your dog’s collar, so your corrective effort doesn’t turn into a footrace around the house until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the correction will also serve to establish it as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around when you’re not present. Next, equip yourself with a man’s leather belt or a strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good tanning. Yup-we’re going to strike him. Real hard. Remember, you’re dealing with a dog who knows he should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to see that he does. Now leave, and let your fading footsteps tell the dog of your going. When you’ve walked to a point where he’ll think you’re gone but where you could hear any noises he might make, stop and listen. If you find a comfortable waiting place on a nearby porch, be careful not to talk or laugh. Tests show a dog’s hearing to be many times as sharp as yours. When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the door so you can barge in while he’s still barking, which is generally impossible, respond to his first sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep on bellowing as you charge back to his area. Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you’ve conveniently placed, and descend on him. He’ll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or, if he’s a big dog, until you’ve snubbed him up with a hitch on something. While he’s held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs. Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it’s the bitter end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat performances that will be necessary. When you’re finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the area again. So that you won’t feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a great percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell. Personally, I’ve always felt that it’s even better to spank children, even if they "cry out," than to "put them to sleep." You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent correction to his first sound and repeat the spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more. It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another day off so that you’ll have time to follow through sufficiently. When you have a full day, you will be able to convince him each yelp will have a bad consequence, and the consistency will make your job easier. If he gets away with his concert part of the time, he’ll be apt to gamble on your inconsistency. After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the correction" will be tied in close enough association so that you can move in on him without the preliminary bellowing of "out." From then on, it’s just a case of laying for the dog and supplying enough bad consequences of his noise so he’ll no longer feel like gambling. Occasionally, there is a dog who seems to sense that you’re hiding nearby and will utter no sound. He also seems to sense when you have really gone away, at least according to the neighbors. Maybe his sensing actually amounts to close observation. He could be watching and listening for the signs of your actual going. Make a convincing operation of leaving, even if it requires changing clothes and being unusually noisy as you slam the doors on the family car and drive away. Arrange with a friend to trade cars a block or two from your house so you can come back and park within earshot without a single familiar sound to tell the dog you’ve returned. A few of these car changes are generally enough to fool the most alert dog. Whether your dog believes you are gone anytime you step out of the house or requires … read more »

Response:

Hello rihadink0,

> This is a dog for cripes sake!

Exactly. That’s why I teach people HOWE to handle and train them, I’m a dog trainer. > JH makes it sound like a person in a fur coat.

Not at all. I’ve specialized in dog behavior and temperament problems and protection training for thirty eight years, mostly with giant breed dogs. > My dog’s life may depend on INSTANT obedience to a command.

EXACTLY. And you don’t get any faster than conditioned reflex to a command. I teach you HOWE to get an instant, reliable come command intstalled as a conditioned reflex, in about one hour. > I do not want him "thinking" about it.

Right. We don’t want the dog thinking when he’s supposed to be REFLEXING. HOWEver, when we’re breaking a behavior, we DO want the dog THINIKING, but not about the inappropriate behavior, because that would train the inappropriate behavior, WOULDN’T IT. > And no my dog is not abused and yes he LOVES to work.

Certainly. But do you know HOWE to train? That’s the question. Competent trainers do not complain about my methods, they study them. Have you got any quesions? I suggest you read my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual. > Virginia Cleary > Rihadin Kennels > http://rihadin.freeservers.com > & The Crafty K9 > http://craftyk9.theshoppe.com > Phoenix, AZ

"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." -Leo Tolstoy- Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?: CAVEAT If you have to do things to your dog to train him that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer who tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, chin cuff, scruff shake or punish your dog in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows HOWE. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe-

Response:

> This is a dog for cripes sake! JH makes it sound like a person in a fur coat. > My dog’s life may depend on INSTANT obedience to a command. I do not want him > "thinking" about it. And no my dog is not abused and yes he LOVES to work.

It’s also a "response" to a post Ruth Mays made on 4/13/2000. Jerry’s playing his strawman game again because nobody will talk to him. Lynn K.

Response:

This is a dog for cripes sake! JH makes it sound like a person in a fur coat. My dog’s life may depend on INSTANT obedience to a command. I do not want him "thinking" about it. And no my dog is not abused and yes he LOVES to work. Virginia Cleary Rihadin Kennels http://rihadin.freeservers.com & The Crafty K9 http://craftyk9.theshoppe.com Phoenix, AZ

Response:

Hello People, Hello mays, You’re still confused. I’m not being sarcastic or critical. It is confusing for people who aren’t familiar with the concept.

> But unless different sounds are being used for different > results, how is the dog to know that the sound means "sit" this > time, and "down" next time, and "stay" the time after that?

The sound can be used to train or break a behavior. The idea is, when TRAINING a behavior we use the sound ONLY to punctuate alternate cue words (commands), and the sound must come exactly on the cue (command) word. When BREAKING a behavior, we create the sound as soon as we notice the onset of the undesired behavior and immediately follow the sound with prolonged, non physical praise for five to fifteen seconds, unless the behavior resumes, in which case we simply make the next sound and praise, and so forth, UNTIL THE BEHAVIOR IS BROKEN. The sound must never come from the same source twice in a row. After the dog has been conditioned using voice commands and hand signals (at the same time) by associating it with the sound cue on the second and fourth requests (commands), if the dog fails to respond to a command, we reissue the command with the appropriate alternate sound and praise. The PRAISE IS PART OF THE COMMAND, it LOCKS HIS THOUGHTS on the IDEA of the command… The sound is a TRIGGER, pulling down remembrances of all the prior conditioning (provided you did it correctly). ANY sound may be used, perhaps a snap of the fingers, a whistle, a coin tossed beyond the dog, a soda can or film can with a couple pennies (but the can must be crushed so as NOT to roll and make a prolonged sound thus taking his attention away from YOU). And you got to follow the technique, even from one day to the next. Example: if your dog doesn’t come in from the yard the first time you call him, you’d quickly repeat the command with a sound on the cue word (come) and praise him, and the dog will come in, because we trigger the memory of the prior conditioning… Let’s say the dog works fine for the next couple of days… Then, he again refuses to come in from the yard the first time you call him, you’d quickly STOP AND THINK…. WHAT WAS THE LAST INSTANCE I REQUIRED A SOUND TO MAKE HIM COME??? You’d think back to a couple of days ago, and remember that you made the sound by snapping your fingers and calling him from the doorway. That means that THIS TIME, YOU MUST create the sound beyond the dog, perhaps using a soda can. HOWE’S THAT hit you? Sounds pretty good to me. And of course your going to forget, or screw it up, but we can always fix it, because we AREN’T CHOKING AND JERKING AND SHOCKING the dog, so there’s no harm done. So, let’s say you’ve trained the come command as a conditioned reflex. That’s the first thing I do while working on the Family Leadership Exercise. In about fifteen minutes we’ve got the dog walking calmly by our side, looking up and getting praised, and smiling and wagging his tail gently AND, he comes the first time we call him. Now I don’t care HOWE you want to cut it, YOU CAN’T BEAT THAT INTO THEM WITH A STICK. So, that’s why I’m fighting like hell to get some of you folks to understand that with JUST THAT as a start, the CALIBER of ADVANCED TRAINING OF ANY KIND, will be FAR SUPERIOR to any other method that you or our "professor” friends can come up with. Let’s wager on that, shall we? I bet my life on it, just like in my challenge to freaky fraud die. Notice he didn’t jump at the chance to feed me to Maddy… I would own his dog, and he knows it, and I think YOU DO TOO. > Merely making sound at a dog will not get it to do what you > want, no matter how much praise you follow that sound with.

No, of course not. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND AND FOLLOW THE TECHNIQUE. I could teach a dog to come pretty reliably in LESS time it takes FOR THIS ONE POST. HOW’S THAT HIT YOU? > You have to create an association between some > specific signal (auditory or visual) and the desired result.

We’re not MERELY making a sound in the process of teaching a behavior. We are using a scientific technique of CONDITIONING to cause a REFLEXIVE behavior. You have to create an association between the sound, the command, and the praise and the tone and tempo and even the environment, must be the same, and the sound must always alternate, everything must be as exact as possible, until the command is conditioned, and VIOLIN! He’s GOT IT! It happens fast, but not the first or second time you do it. At least NOT UNTIL he’s a little more highly conditioned, then he will learn a new command the second time he is given the command, but you do have to do something to help, LIKE DEMONSTRATE the desired behavior. Let’s say we’re teaching the come command. I like to do that with the entire family at once. We pair off and whomever the dog is NOT with, THEY call the dog. HOPEFULLY, the dog will not come running the first time, because we WANT him to refuse the command, so we can use the sound to CONDITION the response… When the dog is called, if he doesn’t respond immediately on the sound, the people with him respond to demonstrate to the dog. Just because your dog comes willingly 99% of the time, that does not mean he’s got a CONDITIONED REFLEX. > Praise has to follow the desired action, not precede it, or the > dog will be hopelessly confused.

YOUR DEAD WRONG. Praise LOCKS THE DOG’S THOUGHTS on the command. That’s why I stress NON PHYSICAL praise, because we DON’T WANT TO INTERRUPT THE DOG’S THINKING. > This whole thread reminds me of an ad on tv- for the lottery.

I love to gamble. But I don’t gamble with dog’s lives or temperaments. Luck is abundant, but chancy. Using force to train a dog is chancy, because he may not knuckle under, and he could get upset about being jerked, choked, and shocked. THAT’S why the pounds are full. Sure, most of the dogs in pounds are there because of negligent owners, but the dogs who have failed force training are the first ones in, and the first ones out. THEY KILL THEM because they’ve been made aggressive through abusive training methods like the ones taught here. At least stray and neglected dogs have a chance at adoption. Unless someone like lyinglynn gets her filthy hands on him in the shelter, then she’ll jerk him around and choke him for a while, and let’s JUST HOPE he don’t object, OR HE’S DEAD. > The scene is a bare room with two audio speakers and a dog. > The speakers issue commands, followed by "good dog", > whether or not the dog does what is asked. Mostly the dog > just sits there ignoring the whole thing….

That’s because the dog wasn’t properly conditioned. My dog was laying on the floor when a dog training program on tv told the dog to SIT!, and my dog flipped out and wanted to tear his head off of him for giving a command in that manner. She growled for thirty minutes at him for talking down to another dog like that… > an oddly Doggy Do Right scenario….

INDEED, you got that Right, AND HOWE… http://www.doggydoright.com > Ruth Mays > I recommend to all rpdb readers that Jerry Howe > should be ignored as a crank and waste of time

I recommend that all rpdb readers who have a disclaimer about Jerry Howe, BE WATCHED. Jerry Howe does NOT HURT dogs to train them. Those I accuse of ABUSING DOGS, tell you I hurt them and TELL YOU to killfile ME. Why are they so FREAKED OUT? Because I am EXPOSING them as the DOG ABUSERS they are… WHERE THERE’S SMOKE, THERE’S FIRE… j;~} Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?: caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe-

Response:

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Dogs stuck during sex – why not humans?

Question:

It has to do with the way dogs ejaculate – the ‘tie’ makes sure the bitch gets pregnant http://www.lasvegas-dog.com/mating.html is just one of the many pages of web info out there but you know just look it up in your copy of The Dog Owner’s Home Veterinary Handbook….. Nancy

Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans? (ken)

Response:

http://www.salon.com/sex/world/2001/05/22/stuck/index.html Yeah. This is not ‘the literature’ as generally understood.

Yeah. I know. . Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris

Response:

heh heh – some of us know the truth about them librarians anyway – book people read all kinds of interesting stuff VBG Nancy (I worked in a library from age 13 for college money) Oh well, here goes: There once was a couple from Kelly Who were forced to walk belly to belly Because in their haste They used library paste Instead of petroleum jelly. –Lia (Madam Librarian), who might have to abandon all hopes of being thought highbrow and snobbish after that one. — “It is a strange fact of life on earth that a human being who reaches college age under the impression that “it’s” is the possessive form of “it” cannot be disabused of that belief. No amount of red ink will wash it out.” Louis Menand

Response:

http://www.salon.com/sex/world/2001/05/22/stuck/index.html . Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris

Response:

http://www.salon.com/sex/world/2001/05/22/stuck/index.html

Yeah. This is not ‘the literature’ as generally understood. — ‘If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.’

Response:

Hello mr dogman,

Vaginismus is a usually painful condition that prevents *penetration,* i.e., it doesn’t cause a couple to get “hung up.” I think tales of humans getting hung up are mostly myths.

Probably. But I’m open-minded, too,

Yup. Your mind ought to be good as new, never been used. Geez guys. If you run a search vaginismus is a fancified way of saying “involuntary muscle spasm”. So it stands to reason that such can happen “pre”, it can happen “post”, regardless of the cause (of the spasm). Perhaps.

Perhaps. Perhaps we should stick to dogs sticking together? Never thought I’d be teaching sex ed on a dog behavior group. It wouldn’t take much of a spasm to prevent penetration.

I suppose that wood all depend, mr dogman. That’s when the chin cuff comes in handy. But it would take a whopper of a spasm to prevent the penis from withdrawing, considering the linear design of the male penis.

All men are not created equal, mr dogman. Given the very painful circumstances for the woman with vaginismus, any erection would surely be short-lived, which would assist in the withdrawal of the now flaccid penis.

That would be contrary to the physics of applying pressure. It would cause swelling. Again, anything is possible, I suppose, but I think hang ups are damn near impossible to achieve for humans.

Probably so, but not for the reasons you suggest. Has anyone suggested why dogs really do get stuck together and HOWE all that stuff works? If you find any mention of them in the literature, I’d be interested in seeing them.

Yeah. I think there’s a pic of the indonesian couple wrapped in a fire department blanket…that ought to tittilate you. But for dogs, the dog doesn’t become flaccid and withdraws, the bitch holds the dog in. It’s up to the bitch to release him, for the reason I mention above. The reason why the tie is necessary has nothing to do with “preventing” semen from escaping, like smoking a cigarette… That’s absurd. The tie occures so ejaculation may take place intermittently during the entire length of the tie. Dogman

Let’s hope this is the last time I got to teach you about sex, mr dogman. P.S. Surgeon General’s warning: Smoking isn’t good for the fetus. Your pal, Jerry “Mr. NICE Guy,” Howe. j;~}

Response:

[...] Vaginismus is a usually painful condition that prevents *penetration,* i.e., it doesn’t cause a couple to get “hung up.” I think tales of humans getting hung up are mostly myths. But I’m open-minded, too, so if you have any additional data, let’s see it. I’m trying to find something. If you do a keyword medline search around this topic, what you mostly get is a list of articles that could be summed up as “how we’re gonna help guys get it up, even if their hearts might explode”:} I think it’s pretty rare, but I remember seeing anecdotal reports of post-penetrative vaginismus causing inability to separate. Finding a journal article just might prove beyond me, tho. Geez guys. If you run a search vaginismus is a fancified way of saying “involuntary muscle spasm”. So it stands to reason that such can happen “pre”, it can happen “post”, regardless of the cause (of the spasm).

Perhaps. It wouldn’t take much of a spasm to prevent penetration. But it would take a whopper of a spasm to prevent the penis from withdrawing, considering the linear design of the male penis. Given the very painful circumstances for the woman with vaginismus, any erection would surely be short-lived, which would assist in the withdrawal of the now flaccid penis. Again, anything is possible, I suppose, but I think hang ups are damn near impossible to achieve for humans. If you find any mention of them in the literature, I’d be interested in seeing them. — Dogman http://www.i1.net/~dogman

Response:

LOL!! Cute!! Oh well, here goes: There once was a couple from Kelly Who were forced to walk belly to belly Because in their haste They used library paste Instead of petroleum jelly. –Lia (Madam Librarian), who might have to abandon all hopes of being thought highbrow and snobbish after that one. — “It is a strange fact of life on earth that a human being who reaches college age under the impression that “it’s” is the possessive form of “it” cannot be disabused of that belief. No amount of red ink will wash it out.” Louis Menand

Response:

Vaginismus is a usually painful condition that prevents *penetration,* i.e., it doesn’t cause a couple to get “hung up.” I think tales of humans getting hung up are mostly myths. But I’m open-minded, too, so if you have any additional data, let’s see it. I’m trying to find something. If you do a keyword medline search around this topic, what you mostly get is a list of articles that could be summed up as “how we’re gonna help guys get it up, even if their hearts might explode”:} I think it’s pretty rare, but I remember seeing anecdotal reports of post-penetrative vaginismus causing inability to separate. Finding a journal article just might prove beyond me, tho.

Geez guys. If you run a search vaginismus is a fancified way of saying “involuntary muscle spasm”. So it stands to reason that such can happen “pre”, it can happen “post”, regardless of the cause (of the spasm). JMO J

Response:

Oh well, here goes: There once was a couple from Kelly Who were forced to walk belly to belly Because in their haste They used library paste Instead of petroleum jelly. –Lia (Madam Librarian), who might have to abandon all hopes of being thought highbrow and snobbish after that one. — “It is a strange fact of life on earth that a human being who reaches college age under the impression that “it’s” is the possessive form of “it” cannot be disabused of that belief. No amount of red ink will wash it out.” Louis Menand

Response:

Dogs prefer to wait to catch their humans at home, flagrante delicto. And create a brief sound distraction and look behind them to see who farted. That works better than throwing ice water on their dirty humans. j;~}

Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans? (ken) I’d like to see dogs bite some of these nasty humans I see making whoopee on the street, to get revenge for all the people who have tried to part dogs doing it. dog Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server

Response:

Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans? (ken) They do, actually. It’s called vaginismus; different reason, same result. I don’t agree, but I’m no expert. Vaginismus is a usually painful condition that prevents *penetration,* i.e., it doesn’t cause a couple to get “hung up.” I think tales of humans getting hung up are mostly myths. But I’m open-minded, too, so if you have any additional data, let’s see it.

I’m trying to find something. If you do a keyword medline search around this topic, what you mostly get is a list of articles that could be summed up as “how we’re gonna help guys get it up, even if their hearts might explode”:} I think it’s pretty rare, but I remember seeing anecdotal reports of post-penetrative vaginismus causing inability to separate. Finding a journal article just might prove beyond me, tho.

Response:

Not necessary for the girl to clamp down on her partner like a vice to keep him in bed…

You’re right, especially if she makes good sandwiches.

Response:

[...] They do, actually. It’s called vaginismus; different reason, same result. I don’t agree, but I’m no expert. Vaginismus is a usually painful condition that prevents *penetration,* i.e., it doesn’t cause a couple to get “hung up.” I think tales of humans getting hung up are mostly myths. But I’m open-minded, too, so if you have any additional data, let’s see it. I’m trying to find something. If you do a keyword medline search around this topic, what you mostly get is a list of articles that could be summed up as “how we’re gonna help guys get it up, even if their hearts might explode”:}

HAHA. I’ll bet. I think it’s pretty rare, but I remember seeing anecdotal reports of post-penetrative vaginismus causing inability to separate. Finding a journal article just might prove beyond me, tho.

Well, if you turn up anything, let me know, eh? — Dogman http://www.i1.net/~dogman

Response:

Dogs “tie” to insure the female a good exposure to semen. Without a tie, the genetic material would tend to run out too quickly when the insemination was complete. Humans have other methods for prolonging the female’s exposure to semen. For one thing, the willingness to remain in a prone position after the fact. The happy couple is content to lay there and chat for half an hour. Not necessary for the girl to clamp down on her partner like a vice to keep him in bed…

Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans? (ken)

Response:

Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans? (ken)

I’d like to see dogs bite some of these nasty humans I see making whoopee on the street, to get revenge for all the people who have tried to part dogs doing it. dog Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server

Response:

hee “Thighs of Steel” suddenly springs to mind…. Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans? (ken)

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Cravens) said: Couple stuck ‘like Siamese twins’ during sex (Followups set to alt.folklore.urban, since that’s where it belongs.) There’s a more creative version at the Urban Legends Reference Pages: http://www.snopes.com/sex/juvenile/bear.htm

The “Ask Isadora” sex advice column in the San Francisco Bay Guardian *did* once have a letter/question about a boy with braces getting caught on his girlfriend’s “piercing-in-interesting place.” . Mary MacTavish http://www.prado.com/~iris

Response:

Couple stuck ‘like Siamese twins’ during sex

(Followups set to alt.folklore.urban, since that’s where it belongs.) There’s a more creative version at the Urban Legends Reference Pages: http://www.snopes.com/sex/juvenile/bear.htm — Karen J. Cravens

Response:

Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans? (ken)

Response:

Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans? (ken)

The male dog has a bulb type thing at the base of his penis. It engorges during sex to hold the dogs in a tie. It is dangerous to both dogs to try to break the tie manually. After the dog has done the deed, the swelling goes down and the male can pull out. Ann

Response:

Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans?

You mean you don’t, Ken? Seriously, go here: “The glans penis is a bulb-like dilation at the base of the penis which fills with blood and holds the penis within the vagina during intercourse.” http://www.peteducation.com/repro/repro_system.htm — Dogman http://www.i1.net/~dogman

Response:

Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans? (ken)

They do, actually. It’s called vaginismus; different reason, same result. By coincidence I remembered seeing this yesterday: http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,1870,45091,00.html

Response:

Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans? You mean you don’t, Ken? Seriously, go here: “The glans penis is a bulb-like dilation at the base of the penis which fills with blood and holds the penis within the vagina during intercourse.” http://www.peteducation.com/repro/repro_system.htm — Dogman http://www.i1.net/~dogman

I mean — I’m not sure what to believe anymore! This poor bastard! Couple stuck ‘like Siamese twins’ during sex Two lovers having an affair got stuck together during sex and had to be rushed naked to hospital by ambulance. The couple could not pull apart after the 50-year-old woman became ‘abnormally excited.’ She had taken a sexual stimulant similar to Viagra. Her 60-year-old partner was unable to disengage. The couple panicked and had to call for help from neighbours in Ipoh, Malaysia. They were separated after being given an injection. Malaysia’s China Press newspaper reports, “Naked and still joined together at their private parts, the red-faced couple had to be carried to the ambulance like a pair of Siamese twins, according to scores of amused fellow villagers. The newspaper adds: “But their embarrassment is not over. They are now having to put up with stares and sniggers from their fellow villagers as news of their ‘adventure’ is spreading like brush fire.” http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_300269.html

Response:

Why do dogs become stuck during mating? Why not humans? (ken) They do, actually. It’s called vaginismus; different reason, same result.

I don’t agree, but I’m no expert. Vaginismus is a usually painful condition that prevents *penetration,* i.e., it doesn’t cause a couple to get “hung up.” I think tales of humans getting hung up are mostly myths. But I’m open-minded, too, so if you have any additional data, let’s see it. By coincidence I remembered seeing this yesterday: http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,1870,45091,00.html

Yeah, well, monkey around too much with drugs and just about anything is possible. — Dogman http://www.i1.net/~dogman

Response:

Category Categories: Dog Behavior | Comments 1 Comment »

Not having to duck the flamethrowers? OT

Question:

>If you’re feeling really lonely, maybe someone on here could write >you a really "crisp your hair" type of flame message…. ;-)

Uh oh… But I wasn’t looking for trouble… Just wondering how I managed to dodge the bullets. But thanks for the offer, I’m sure my hair would be quite crispy. :-) Christy — Remove SPAMMENOT to e-mail "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" Albert Einstein

Response:

Hello lia, > Feeling left out?

Whew! I’d say LUCKY, ‘cept I don’t believe in LUCK. > Need to be flamed to feel one of the gang?

WHY would anyone want to be one of this Gang Of Thugs? > Not to worry. People don’t generally flame me either,

That’s because you don’t deserve second notice. > and I have perfectly terrible social skills.

Well, this is dog behavior. The upper limits of our social skills are pretty muchsniffing ears and behinds and trying not to get jerked and shocked and choked for saying hullo or for just being a dog. > At least, I think they don’t flame me,

Beause you don’t have the savvy to bother flaming you. It’d be like throwing a match in the lake. > but I killfile on the slightest provocation so I wouldn’t know.

EXACTLY. You’re not the sharpest knife in the drawer, lia. Remember mumsy telling you that? > It might be luck.

No. I think it’s moore like when we read stuff like your "1 step forward" post, we just cringe and pray for Cubbe’s early demise from natural causes. She doesn’t deserve the kind of torment you’ve put her through since you killfiled me on my first post to you two years ago. Now your dog Cubbe has snapped at a child because you continue to shock her despite that she’s already shown aggression towards you. > It might be that our resident trolls are having a bad day.

It might be that there’s moore important posters to discredit? > Either way, get the advice and entertainment from the group that > you want,

Yeah. Read about Fritz and Sampson. Then read lyindogDUMMY and some lying"I LOVE KOEHLER,"lynn. Most of our Gang Of Thugs are devout koehler trainers. > and ignore everything else.

Yeah. That’s the way it works for you, lia. Cubbe is going to pay for your lack of intelligence. > I do that and find that I learn a lot.

Yeah. See the thread "1 step forward." > –Lia Rober Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough of the manual and it’s counterparts by John Fisher and the posts of Marylin Rammell to believe and use it. This naive child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marylin for putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers. The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp. To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake names are more honest than people that use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and lived by their craft for decades. "Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that people like Jerry Howe and Marylin Rammell are going to just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don’t really care. > admit to buying and having success with his little black > box.

I think I’m going to get one myself for Father’s day and take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You would never believe the results, so you’ll never know. > Anyone by now that doesn’t see a scam man coming by > Jerry’s posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to > him! LOL!

I don’t see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei."…….right. >Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad. Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box first?) END OF POST

Response:

>Am I doing something right?

Yup. Respond to what you can contribute to. It may be advice, it may be something that can relieve some tension. Ignore the bad stuff. Sometimes you’ve got to fight back, but make it a clean fight. — –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.

Response:

Feeling left out? Need to be flamed to feel one of the gang? Not to worry. People don’t generally flame me either, and I have perfectly terrible social skills. At least, I think they don’t flame me, but I killfile on the slightest provocation so I wouldn’t know. It might be luck. It might be that our resident trolls are having a bad day. Either way, get the advice and entertainment from the group that you want, and ignore everything else. I do that and find that I learn a lot. –Lia — "It is a strange fact of life on earth that a human being who reaches college age under the impression that "it’s" is the possessive form of "it" cannot be disabused of that belief. No amount of red ink will wash it out." Louis Menand

Response:

If you’re feeling really lonely, maybe someone on here could write you a really "crisp your hair" type of flame message…. ;-) -Lisa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi there, > I have a question about my own behavior, so it is a little off-topic > for this NG, although it is kind of about the NG, so… > I have been posting here for a few weeks, not a bunch, but some. And > I have yet to be doused with gasoline and set alight (not that I want > to be) for something that I have said that someone didn’t agree with. > But I have seen lots of people get flamed pretty bad on their first > or second post, which leads to my question. > Am I doing something right? Or am I just lucky? Or do I just talk > too much and bore everyone? I am just curious, since I don’t have > the best social skills in the world, and I am trying to > train/socialize myself a little better. > I enjoy the group, by the way. I am learning a lot about both canine > and human behavior here. :-) I hope that I can contribute something > to the group as well. > Christy > — > Remove SPAMMENOT to e-mail > "If we knew what we were doing, > it would not be called research, would it?" > Albert Einstein

Response:

All in all, it’s a really fun group, Christy. :-) Everyone here really seems to care for their dog. What the problems arise from, are when people disagree and cannot agree to disagree. Not saying that is either right or wrong, since we are all human & have more faults than our canine companions! *grins* Thinking back, I don’t think I’ve ever been "flamed" either, ripped on for "details" by one or two particular people that seem to have issues with pretty much everyone, but flamed? Nope. Stick around, have fun. I figure everyday I have an opportunity to learn something new about my beloved dogs. And the day I think I know it all, is going to be a sad, sad day. Shelly, Coda & Guiness…

Response:

> Hi there, > I have a question about my own behavior, so it is a little off-topic > for this NG, although it is kind of about the NG, so… > I have been posting here for a few weeks, not a bunch, but some. And > I have yet to be doused with gasoline and set alight (not that I want > to be) for something that I have said that someone didn’t agree with. > But I have seen lots of people get flamed pretty bad on their first > or second post, which leads to my question. > Am I doing something right? Or am I just lucky? Or do I just talk > too much and bore everyone? I am just curious, since I don’t have > the best social skills in the world, and I am trying to > train/socialize myself a little better.

Hmmm – took a quick look and I’d say you are "doing something right". In the first place you don’t get offended if someone contradicts or argues with you. That’s a big one. Some of the responses you get are not "flames" because you didn’t take them as "flames" – and you were right not to. The way you write your responses makes it clear that you at least think about what the other person is saying. That’s all anyone has a right to ask. They can’t demand you agree, or change your mind. You also seem to know the difference between a fact and an opinion (even if you are occasionally mistaken about your facts <g>). You write what works for you, but don’t usually load it with sideways comments about what other people do. All of us get flamed eventually. Some people are flame retardent, while others *poof* *sizzle* – in most cases it is attitude.1 > I enjoy the group, by the way. I am learning a lot about both canine > and human behavior here. :-) I hope that I can contribute something > to the group as well.

Diane Blackman http://www.dog-play.com/ http://www.dog-play.com/TOTE.html "the real danger posed by the domestic dog is that its friendship threatens to dissolve or undermine the physchologial barrier that distinguished human from animal." (Elmendorf & Kroeber (1960)) as cited in "The Domestic Dog" ch 16, James Serpell

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Not having to duck the flamethrowers? OT >Hi there, >I have a question about my own behavior, so it is a little off-topic >for this NG, although it is kind of about the NG, so… >I have been posting here for a few weeks, not a bunch, but some. And >I have yet to be doused with gasoline and set alight (not that I want >to be) for something that I have said that someone didn’t agree with. >But I have seen lots of people get flamed pretty bad on their first >or second post, which leads to my question. >Am I doing something right? Or am I just lucky? Or do I just talk >too much and bore everyone? I am just curious, since I don’t have >the best social skills in the world, and I am trying to >train/socialize myself a little better. >I enjoy the group, by the way. I am learning a lot about both canine >and human behavior here. :-) I hope that I can contribute something >to the group as well. >Christy >– >Remove SPAMMENOT to e-mail >"If we knew what we were doing, >it would not be called research, would it?" >Albert Einstein

Yep. Until finding this newsgroup, I never imagined that the subject of pets could such a hotbed of ideology. As you’ve discovered, we have BARF-feeders verses veterinarians, breeders verses shelters, pit-buill owners against the general public — and that’s just for starters. As the dogs themselves can never really speak up about their lives under our dominance, it’s very easy to imagine ourselves as Moses bringing truth down from the mountain. So God help you if you don’t get down on your knees like a good little doggie and gratefully lick the chicken-blood off our almighty hands.

Response:

You’re just lucky! I hate you! You stink! (Just kidding!) — Dreamspinner3 Homepage: http://dreamspinner3.tripod.com/ ICQ: 48547727 "Apparently I’m insane. But I’m one of the happy kinds!" The views I express are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.

Response:

>Until finding this newsgroup, I never imagined that the subject of >pets could such a hotbed of ideology. As you’ve discovered, we >have BARF-feeders verses veterinarians, breeders verses shelters, >pit-buill owners against the general public — and that’s just for >starters.

As far as I can tell, any topic can become a hotbed of ideology. I haven’t been to any gardening newsgroups, but I bet there are some people there who get pretty passionate about others who mistreat their hothouse tomatoes. :-) >As the dogs themselves can never really speak up about their lives >under our dominance, it’s very easy to imagine ourselves as Moses >bringing truth down from the mountain.

That, IMHO, is why people get so emotionally involved in some of the lines of argument here. Since the animals can’t really speak up for themselves, their well-being can only be protected by people. And if someone who really cares about animals (it seems that lots of people here are involved in rescue and see mistreated animals fairly often) sees a situation where an animal, in their view, is being harmed, they will feel compelled to speak up about it. Nothing is wrong with that… I was prepared for it, actually, before I even checked out the NG. I used to work with horses, and if you think that dog people defend their philosophies to the hilt… :-) Christy — Remove SPAMMENOT to e-mail "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" Albert Einstein

Response:

Hi there, I have a question about my own behavior, so it is a little off-topic for this NG, although it is kind of about the NG, so… I have been posting here for a few weeks, not a bunch, but some. And I have yet to be doused with gasoline and set alight (not that I want to be) for something that I have said that someone didn’t agree with. But I have seen lots of people get flamed pretty bad on their first or second post, which leads to my question. Am I doing something right? Or am I just lucky? Or do I just talk too much and bore everyone? I am just curious, since I don’t have the best social skills in the world, and I am trying to train/socialize myself a little better. I enjoy the group, by the way. I am learning a lot about both canine and human behavior here. :-) I hope that I can contribute something to the group as well. Christy — Remove SPAMMENOT to e-mail "If we knew what we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" Albert Einstein

Response:

Category Categories: Bad Dog Behavior | No Comments »

Distracting

Question:

EBay might be a dot com but who says all the dot com buyers are women? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >74476.news.dfncis.de>: >>Big gals will still be buying underwear when all the dot coms crash. >Who says all the buyers are dot com women? >eBay is a dot com… >–

Let the BIG DOGS out to e-mail me!

Response:

>EBay might be a dot com but who says all the dot com buyers are women?

Heck with that, who says all the *underwear* buyers are women. I’ll stop there. —

Response:

>74476.news.dfncis.de>: >I OWN my own land, can afford to heat it, and don’t have to >sell giant sized sexy underwear to make a living. >Wow. I own my own land, but I can’t afford to heat it. Except in >summer, when it gets solar heating. >Usually I just stick to heating the house part…

Smarty pants! Terri

Response:

74476.news.dfncis.de>: >Big gals will still be buying underwear when all the dot coms crash. >Who says all the buyers are dot com women?

eBay is a dot com… —

Response:

>Big gals will still be buying underwear when all the dot coms crash.

Who says all the buyers are dot com women? After all, these women have been smart enough to actually get a degree, unlike you. Uh, well lessee. I think your buyers are really dim, as you find the original underwear at thrift stores and garage sales, then spiffy them up with doo-dads that make them think_ they’re getting something new. I, nor am most_ of normal women, are going to buy used_ underwear in this day and age. Terri Not so dim.

Response:

74476.news.dfncis.de>: >Usually I just stick to heating the house part… >Smarty pants!

… now, *air conditioning* the land, that could have some appeal. Especially in the hot part of the summer (June through November). —

Response:

You go slave. Then think about the likelihood of applying any of the junk in a lucrative job when you graduate.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, I finally found a topic, but it isn’t about dogs. Now I have to > immerse myself in Ferguson v. Charleston. <sigh> Ever try to read a > Supreme Court Case decision? Reading the newsgroup is much more interesting > (and easier to comprehend!). <heavy sigh> > I’m off to slave away again. Good luck on your digital stuff! > Mali > >Guys, stop it! You’re writing things that are too interesting! I’m > >supposed to be doing my paper for class…due the 23rd, 10 pages, haven’t > >even found the topic yet!!! :O) > ROTFLOL… I’m having the exact same problem! But which do you > think I would rather do, talk about dogs or re-read a horribly > boring chapter on digital logic? Hmmm, tough choice . > Dianne

Response:

If my e-mail address is on your mailing list, I suggest taking it off. Now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yeah, go ahead and buy giant frilly panties for yourself. In fact, I don’t >care > if they’re see-through or crotchless, but why in HELL would anyone want to >buy > your used nasty panties? > (Someone, please, hand me the BARF bag – and this time I’m not referring >to raw > diet!) >In fact, I didn’t bring up the issue of big panties. YOU are the one who >keeps fantasizing about them. I KNOW I’ve sold you a couple of pairs….your >e-mail is on my giant used crusty panty mailing list. > >Big gals will still be buying underwear when all the dot coms crash. > >> Uh. Terri? I’m not so sure the words "giant sized underwear" and "sexy" > >even > >> come close to belonging in the same book, let alone the same sentence. > >> Especially if they were "used." > >> (Shudder!) > >> >>Well, I finally found a topic, but it isn’t about dogs. Now I have >to > >> >>immerse myself in Ferguson v. Charleston. <sigh> Ever try to read a > >> >>Supreme Court Case decision? > >> >Yup. > >> >Boring! > >> > Reading the newsgroup is much more > >> >>interesting (and easier to comprehend!). <heavy sigh> > >> >>I’m off to slave away again. Good luck on your digital stuff! > >> >Get your ass back there and read the boring stuff! > >> >:) > >> >You’ll be glad later that you didn’t listen to Elame. > >> >(She’s older than I, still rents and has nothing other > >> >than eBay to make a living and can’t even afford to heat her > >> >house). > >> >I OWN my own land, can afford to heat it, and don’t have to > >> >sell giant sized sexy underwear to make a living. > >> >Rock on with school, Mali! > >> >If you don’t get your butt back to work and studies, > >> >you will become_ an elame! > >> >How’s that_ for a threat?! > >> >WEG! > >> >Terri > Let the BIG DOGS out to e-mail me!

Let the BIG DOGS out to e-mail me!

Response:

>Uh. Terri? I’m not so sure the words "giant sized underwear" and "sexy" >even come close to belonging in the same book, let alone the same >sentence. Especially if they were "used."

Uh, well, they are not_ my words. Talk to Lamey. The 45 year old renter and seller of used, sexy undies! Terri

Response:

snip >I think that adopting Solo may very well add a year to my graduate career, >for reasons both good and ill. Oh well, I’m finally funded, I guess all >I’m losing is a year of my life.

Just don’t_ give up, whatever you do! Go for that degree. You’ll never_ be sorry. I promise. Terri

Response:

> Yeah, go ahead and buy giant frilly panties for yourself. In fact, I don’t care > if they’re see-through or crotchless, but why in HELL would anyone want to buy > your used nasty panties? > (Someone, please, hand me the BARF bag – and this time I’m not referring to raw > diet!)

In fact, I didn’t bring up the issue of big panties. YOU are the one who keeps fantasizing about them. I KNOW I’ve sold you a couple of pairs….your e-mail is on my giant used crusty panty mailing list. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Big gals will still be buying underwear when all the dot coms crash. >> Uh. Terri? I’m not so sure the words "giant sized underwear" and "sexy" >even >> come close to belonging in the same book, let alone the same sentence. >> Especially if they were "used." >> (Shudder!) >> >>Well, I finally found a topic, but it isn’t about dogs. Now I have to >> >>immerse myself in Ferguson v. Charleston. <sigh> Ever try to read a >> >>Supreme Court Case decision? >> >Yup. >> >Boring! >> > Reading the newsgroup is much more >> >>interesting (and easier to comprehend!). <heavy sigh> >> >>I’m off to slave away again. Good luck on your digital stuff! >> >Get your ass back there and read the boring stuff! >> >:) >> >You’ll be glad later that you didn’t listen to Elame. >> >(She’s older than I, still rents and has nothing other >> >than eBay to make a living and can’t even afford to heat her >> >house). >> >I OWN my own land, can afford to heat it, and don’t have to >> >sell giant sized sexy underwear to make a living. >> >Rock on with school, Mali! >> >If you don’t get your butt back to work and studies, >> >you will become_ an elame! >> >How’s that_ for a threat?! >> >WEG! >> >Terri > Let the BIG DOGS out to e-mail me!

Response:

Yeah, go ahead and buy giant frilly panties for yourself. In fact, I don’t care if they’re see-through or crotchless, but why in HELL would anyone want to buy your used nasty panties? (Someone, please, hand me the BARF bag – and this time I’m not referring to raw diet!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Big gals will still be buying underwear when all the dot coms crash. > Uh. Terri? I’m not so sure the words "giant sized underwear" and "sexy" >even > come close to belonging in the same book, let alone the same sentence. > Especially if they were "used." > (Shudder!) > >>Well, I finally found a topic, but it isn’t about dogs. Now I have to > >>immerse myself in Ferguson v. Charleston. <sigh> Ever try to read a > >>Supreme Court Case decision? > >Yup. > >Boring! > > Reading the newsgroup is much more > >>interesting (and easier to comprehend!). <heavy sigh> > >>I’m off to slave away again. Good luck on your digital stuff! > >Get your ass back there and read the boring stuff! > >:) > >You’ll be glad later that you didn’t listen to Elame. > >(She’s older than I, still rents and has nothing other > >than eBay to make a living and can’t even afford to heat her > >house). > >I OWN my own land, can afford to heat it, and don’t have to > >sell giant sized sexy underwear to make a living. > >Rock on with school, Mali! > >If you don’t get your butt back to work and studies, > >you will become_ an elame! > >How’s that_ for a threat?! > >WEG! > >Terri

Let the BIG DOGS out to e-mail me!

Response:

> >Guys, stop it! You’re writing things that are too interesting! I’m >supposed to be doing my paper for class…due the 23rd, 10 pages, haven’t >even found the topic yet!!! :O) > ROTFLOL… I’m having the exact same problem! But which do you > think I would rather do, talk about dogs or re-read a horribly > boring chapter on digital logic? Hmmm, tough choice .

Oh my gosh, I have to ask this: Do you guys find that your house is NEVER cleaner than when it’s time for finals/final exam papers? *laugh* I swear, I’d be sitting there, studying away hard as can be, and the smallest speck of dirt or unorganized sheet of paper would distract me and I’d have to stop & clean/fix it! Always, thru almost 5 years of college, every finals time. It’s always easier to do something else than what you HAVE to do! *laughing* Shelly (who isn’t missing finals AT ALL!), Coda & Guiness…

Response:

74476.news.dfncis.de>: >I OWN my own land, can afford to heat it, and don’t have to >sell giant sized sexy underwear to make a living.

Wow. I own my own land, but I can’t afford to heat it. Except in summer, when it gets solar heating. Usually I just stick to heating the house part… —

Response:

Uh. Terri? I’m not so sure the words "giant sized underwear" and "sexy" even come close to belonging in the same book, let alone the same sentence. Especially if they were "used." (Shudder!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well, I finally found a topic, but it isn’t about dogs. Now I have to >immerse myself in Ferguson v. Charleston. <sigh> Ever try to read a >Supreme Court Case decision? >Yup. >Boring! > Reading the newsgroup is much more >interesting (and easier to comprehend!). <heavy sigh> >I’m off to slave away again. Good luck on your digital stuff! >Get your ass back there and read the boring stuff! >:) >You’ll be glad later that you didn’t listen to Elame. >(She’s older than I, still rents and has nothing other >than eBay to make a living and can’t even afford to heat her >house). >I OWN my own land, can afford to heat it, and don’t have to >sell giant sized sexy underwear to make a living. >Rock on with school, Mali! >If you don’t get your butt back to work and studies, >you will become_ an elame! >How’s that_ for a threat?! >WEG! >Terri

Let the BIG DOGS out to e-mail me!

Response:

> :O( I’m employed, go to college and I’m still *barely* able pay my heat > bill! ’Course, everyone is having that problem right now around here. > And just ignore Elaine….she’s just trying to get a rise…obviously the > only one she can get, the troll.

Actually, I was being nice by suggesting you follow your dream. If you’d RATHER sweat bullets just to pay bills and never find your heart’s desire, well…..that’s not MY fault. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mali > >Drop out of school > Good advice, Elaine! We should *all* become unemployed Usenet junkies, > unable to afford heating for our houses, selling underwear on eBay to > support our ‘net habit. Whee! > —

Response:

I think we’re going to have energy blackouts before most people in college right now graduate.

Response:

Big gals will still be buying underwear when all the dot coms crash.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Uh. Terri? I’m not so sure the words "giant sized underwear" and "sexy" even > come close to belonging in the same book, let alone the same sentence. > Especially if they were "used." > (Shudder!) >>Well, I finally found a topic, but it isn’t about dogs. Now I have to >>immerse myself in Ferguson v. Charleston. <sigh> Ever try to read a >>Supreme Court Case decision? >Yup. >Boring! > Reading the newsgroup is much more >>interesting (and easier to comprehend!). <heavy sigh> >>I’m off to slave away again. Good luck on your digital stuff! >Get your ass back there and read the boring stuff! >:) >You’ll be glad later that you didn’t listen to Elame. >(She’s older than I, still rents and has nothing other >than eBay to make a living and can’t even afford to heat her >house). >I OWN my own land, can afford to heat it, and don’t have to >sell giant sized sexy underwear to make a living. >Rock on with school, Mali! >If you don’t get your butt back to work and studies, >you will become_ an elame! >How’s that_ for a threat?! >WEG! >Terri > Let the BIG DOGS out to e-mail me!

Response:

Guys, stop it! You’re writing things that are too interesting! I’m supposed to be doing my paper for class…due the 23rd, 10 pages, haven’t even found the topic yet!!! :O) There just aren’t any Supreme Court cases about dogs!!! I guess I should be thankful for that though, right :O) Mali

Response:

Drop out of school and become an dog behaviorist. Your heart is with dogs. That’s a rare and valuable thing. Plus you won’t have to have a degree to do the work.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Guys, stop it! You’re writing things that are too interesting! I’m > supposed to be doing my paper for class…due the 23rd, 10 pages, haven’t > even found the topic yet!!! :O) > There just aren’t any Supreme Court cases about dogs!!! I guess I should be > thankful for that though, right :O) > Mali

Response:

>Guys, stop it! You’re writing things that are too interesting! I’m >supposed to be doing my paper for class…due the 23rd, 10 pages, haven’t >even found the topic yet!!! :O)

ROTFLOL… I’m having the exact same problem! But which do you think I would rather do, talk about dogs or re-read a horribly boring chapter on digital logic? Hmmm, tough choice . Dianne

Response:

Well, I finally found a topic, but it isn’t about dogs. Now I have to immerse myself in Ferguson v. Charleston. <sigh> Ever try to read a Supreme Court Case decision? Reading the newsgroup is much more interesting (and easier to comprehend!). <heavy sigh> I’m off to slave away again. Good luck on your digital stuff! Mali – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Guys, stop it! You’re writing things that are too interesting! I’m >supposed to be doing my paper for class…due the 23rd, 10 pages, haven’t >even found the topic yet!!! :O) > ROTFLOL… I’m having the exact same problem! But which do you > think I would rather do, talk about dogs or re-read a horribly > boring chapter on digital logic? Hmmm, tough choice . > Dianne

Response:

>Drop out of school

Good advice, Elaine! We should *all* become unemployed Usenet junkies, unable to afford heating for our houses, selling underwear on eBay to support our ‘net habit. Whee! —

Response:

:O( I’m employed, go to college and I’m still *barely* able pay my heat bill! ’Course, everyone is having that problem right now around here. And just ignore Elaine….she’s just trying to get a rise…obviously the only one she can get, the troll. Mali – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Drop out of school > Good advice, Elaine! We should *all* become unemployed Usenet junkies, > unable to afford heating for our houses, selling underwear on eBay to > support our ‘net habit. Whee! > —

Response:

>Well, I finally found a topic, but it isn’t about dogs. Now I have to >immerse myself in Ferguson v. Charleston. <sigh> Ever try to read a >Supreme Court Case decision?

Yup. Boring! Reading the newsgroup is much more >interesting (and easier to comprehend!). <heavy sigh> >I’m off to slave away again. Good luck on your digital stuff!

Get your ass back there and read the boring stuff! You’ll be glad later that you didn’t listen to Elame. (She’s older than I, still rents and has nothing other than eBay to make a living and can’t even afford to heat her house). I OWN my own land, can afford to heat it, and don’t have to sell giant sized sexy underwear to make a living. Rock on with school, Mali! If you don’t get your butt back to work and studies, you will become_ an elame! How’s that_ for a threat?! WEG! Terri

Response:

Category Categories: Dog Behavior | No Comments »

Code of Online Business Practices from the Better Business Bureau – Why does Jerry Howe fail to meet the BBB ethical code for the way he conducts business? Could it be that he is a NINNYBOY BUTTMUNCHING MORON???

Question:

And this post helped save a dog… how? What an empty waste of time. — Adele Shutes and The Brittany Brigade To the world, you’re just a person; to a rescued dog, you are the world! Texas Brittany Rescue Network http://texasbrittanyrescue.org National Brittany Rescue & Adoption Network, Inc. a non-profit organization http://nbran.org Support Texas Brittany Rescue through your purchases from http://www.cafepress.com/texasbritts/

Response:

> Hey, do you know who paghat is?

Not really. That’s one of those ‘who is John Galt’ questions. But actually, I *DO* know who John Galt is! He’s this smelly sleazy little guy that is the pinnacle of geek-hood that knows MUCH about computers. But that’s a whole other story. Why do you ask about the ratgirl? Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.com

Response:

Hey, do you know who paghat is?

Response:

> Hello I Hate Jerry Too, > "I Hate Jerry Too…" > Greetings! > FU man. What the hell are you trying to do, prove you’re an > imbicile?

SAME BACK TO YA, HOWE. ALL CAPS FOR YOU TODAY – YOU *DESERVE* TO BE YELLED AT. NO, DUMMY. I’M TRYING TO PROVE *YOU* ARE AN IMBICLE. SHOULDN’T BE TOO DIFFICULT A TASK. > I ran across an interesting web site the other day. The Better > Business Bureau! > Mazzel tov. > They have a wonderful collection of information regarding > operation of an ethical business. > Is that so?

YES IT IS OR I WOULDN’T HAVE SAID IT. > In order to be a member of the BBB, one must agree to abide by > and be held to the BBB’s guidelines. > Guidelines? What are guidelines?

TRY http://www.m-w.com/home.htm – MERRIAM-WEBSTER ONLINE. > The question of the day is: > "Why does Jerry Howe fail to meet the BBB > ethical code for the way he conducts business?" > That’s simple chump. The standards of the BBB are beneath the > standards adhered to by the BIOSOUND Scientific Eves.

BULLSHIT. LIAR. CON MAN. YOU DON’T MEET THE ETHICAL STANDARDS AS OUTLINED IN THIS POSTING. MORON. > Jerry states that he doesn’t need the BBB breathing down his neck, > I never said that. I said Jerry doesn’t NEED anyone to dictate his > business practices, because BIOSOUND Scientific and it’s products > will never have a complaint. That’s what the Elves insist on. The > BBB mediates complaints. WE do not intend to have ANY complaints to > be mediated. The customer is alway right, and always gets more than > he’s obligated to recieve. Like PAID return shipping FOREVER. Like > SATISFACTION GUARANTEED FOREVER.

THE GUARANTEE OF A PROVEN LIAR. GEE, THAT’S WORTH > Now shove off.

NO. WHY DON’T YOU SHOVE IT INSTEAD? > holding a gun to his head, to operate an ethical business. > Pssst! There’s never been a complaint TO ANYONE.

PSSSST! THERE HAS TOO. I MADE ONE. LIAR. > Yet, Jerry is not in compliance with the standards the BBB has set > forth. > BIOSOUND Scientifics’ standards are higher.

BULLSHIT. LIAR. WHERE’S THE PROOF OF YOUR CLAIMS? TESTIMONIALS ARE WORTHLESS (KINDA LIKE THE GUARANTEE OF A PROVEN LIAR AND CONMAN). > You can’t freaking beat > satisfaction guaranteed forever. You can’t beat free return > shipping. There’s never been an unsatisfied Doggy Do Right (and > Kitty Will Too) customer. And there never will be. So shove off.

I CAN BEAT THE GUARANTEE OF A LIAR BY GOING TO HONEST CARS USED JOHNS, SO SHOVE IT. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here is detail in support of my claim from the Better Business > Bureau web site: > The Code of Online Business Practices: > http://www.bbbonline.org/code/code.asp > "The following Code of Online Business Practices > is designed to guide ethical "business to customer" > conduct in electronic commerce. These guidelines > represent sound online advertising and selling > practices that the Better Business Bureau ("BBB") > and BBBOnLine believe will boost customer trust > and confidence in online commerce." > Clearly, this applies to Jerry’s online business of selling the > Doggy > Do Right. He is a business, selling directly to the > customer, and he >is going so via ‘electronic commerce’ via his web site > ( http://www.doggydoright.com/ ) > Fine. We have set the stage.

INDEED. > "Life is but a flickering shadow…" W. Shakespear.

"ALL THE WORLD’S A STAGE." WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE > Now on to some specifics. > "A rose by any other name…" H.D. Thoureau.

"I HEAR BEYONE THE RANGE OF SOUND, I SEE BEYONE THE RANGE OF SIGHT," HENRY DAVID THOREAU – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The first Principle of the BBB Code of Online Business Practices > is, > "Principle I: Truthful and Accurate Communications." Here’s what > the BBB says about this Principle: > Principle I: Truthful and Accurate Communications. > http://www.bbbonline.org/code/principle1.asp > "Online advertisers should not engage in deceptive or > misleading trade practices with regard to any aspect of > electronic commerce, including advertising, marketing, > or in their use of technology." > That’s all well and good.

THANK YOU. WE ALL FEEL BETTER NOW THAT A NITWIT HAS TOLD US ALL IS WELL AND GOOD. FREAKING MORON. >But there are not deceptive or false or > misleading practices. Everything stated on my site is FACT.

BULLSHIT. YOU’RE EITHER STUPID BEYOND BELIEF, OR YOU’RE A LIAR (OR BOTH). YOUR MARKETING CLAIMS **A R E N O T** FACTS. THEY ARE MARKETING CLAIMS. YOU OBVIOUSLY DO NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD "FACT". WHILE YOU’RE OVER AT MERRIAM-WEBSTER ONLINE LOOKING UP THE MEANING OF THE WORD "GUIDELINE" YOU CAN LOOK UP THE WORD "FACT" ALSO. > Just > like in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual. That’s been proven > to be faster and moore effective than hurting dogs like it’s taught > in the koehler book ed w of petloss dot CON recommends.

YOU HAVE SHOWN EXACTLY -ZERO- PROOF THAT THE WETM METHODS WORK AT ALL, MUCH LESS THAT THEY ARE FASTER OR MORE EFFECTIVE. JERRY, YOU’RE BIG ON WORDS, BUT LITTLE ON PROOF. QUIT MAKING UP STUFF AND PROVIDE SOME REAL-WORLD FACTUAL EVIDENCE AS PROOF OF YOUR CLAIMS. OR SHUT THE HELL UP. EITHER WAY. > Ask > lyingdogDUMMY if you don’t want to beleive me. Just ask him HOWE’S > his lip…, ask him if our Gang Of Thugs have gotten Marty’s Carp > hook out, or is he gonna wear it like jewlery.

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. LET ME KNOW IF YOU’RE GOING TO *SAY* ANYTHING, OR JUST KEEP DRONING ON WITH THE SAME OLD TIRED RHETORIC. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The BBB then goes on to further clarify and define what they mean > by "deceptive or misleading trade practices". > Item A. > "Online advertisers should adhere to the Better Business > Bureau

Category Categories: Dog Behavior Book | No Comments »

How to shut up the dog of my neighbour

Question:

My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small one that allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour one to do someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant persone. I would like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when he is gone. My question is, will it work through a window? Some barkerbreakers work up to 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I would like to solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the dog down. Please help me.

Response:

the doggydoright device claims to work… Its guarnteed for life (moneyback) and has a 2 year warrenty. www.doggydoright.com Give this a go, and let us know if it works. Talk to Jerry if you have any questions, He’ll be more than happy to help you out;) Jen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small one that > allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour one to do > someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant persone. I would > like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when he is gone. My > question is, will it work through a window? Some barkerbreakers work up to > 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I would like to > solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the dog down. > Please help me.

Response:

Thank you, Jen.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the doggydoright device claims to work… Its guarnteed for life (moneyback) > and has a 2 year warrenty. > www.doggydoright.com > Give this a go, and let us know if it works. > Talk to Jerry if you have any questions, He’ll be more than happy to help you > out;) > Jen > My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small one that > allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour one to do > someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant persone. I would > like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when he is gone. My > question is, will it work through a window? Some barkerbreakers work up to > 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I would like to > solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the dog down. > Please help me.

Response:

Why even bother Jerry… especially when you say I’m a fraud… Jen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thank you, Jen. > the doggydoright device claims to work… Its guarnteed for life > (moneyback) > and has a 2 year warrenty. > www.doggydoright.com > Give this a go, and let us know if it works. > Talk to Jerry if you have any questions, He’ll be more than happy > to help you > out;) > Jen > > My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small > one that > > allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour one > to do > > someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant > persone. I would > > like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when he is > gone. My > > question is, will it work through a window? Some barkerbreakers > work up to > > 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I > would like to > > solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the > dog down. > > Please help me.

Response:

>> the doggydoright device claims to work…

<SNIP> > Jen >Thank you, Jen.

<HOWLING LAUGHTER> Just imagine how PISSED this lady’s gonna be when her Doggie DooDoo does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Hell, she’s ready to "take the dog down" at this point. Just imagine HOWE she’ll react once she realizes she’s been DUPED into a COMPLETE WASTE of a hundred bucks! Hut naam!!! Maybe she’ll come after Smegma-boy to take HIM down! (We can only hope…) WHY IS SMEGIE SUCH A JERK? Why does he have to flame people all the time? Why does every post he makes have to end up marketing his unproven method and his black box? Why can’t Smegma be respectful? Why is Smegma so rude to people? Why is Smegma mean? Why does Smegma call people names? Why is Smegma so immature? Why must Smegma respond to each post line-by-line, ripping apart all that was said, one line at a time? Why won’t Smegma post in a thread? Why do Smegma’s posts always have to start a new thread, while quoting the contents of another thread? Why is Smegma mean to people? Why is Smegma so self-righteous? Is Smegma an abused child? Is Smegma a victim of ritual satanic abuse? Is Smegma mentally ill? Is Smegma really a pimple-faced 14 year old? Is Smegma a happy person? Is Smegma mean to his dog? Is Smegma without a friend in the world? Is Smegma a lonely man? Is Smegma a con man – a scam artist? Is Smegma supposed to be incarcerated? Is Smegma an ex-convict? Is Smegma on parole? Is Smegma in trouble with the law? Is Smegma an angry man? Is Smegma a ‘road rager’? Is Smegma a bible-thumping fundamentalist right-wing religious zealot/freak? Is Smegma as ugly on the outside as he is on the inside? Is Smegma a high school graduate? Is Smegma ever going to gain insight into the proper use of the English language? Is Smegma capable of writing gramatically correct sentences? Is Smegma a closed-minded troll? Is Smegma obsessed? Is Smegma as annoying in real life as he is on this newsgroup? Is Smegma suffering? Is Smegma capable of being reasonable? (To the tune of "Three Blind Mice") Smegie is a JERK! A BIG, STUPID JERK! Smegie is a JERK! A BIG, STUPID JERK! He’s always hawking that useless box, He flames and trolls in every post! He’s the JERK we love to HATE the most! HOWE is a JERK! A BIG, STUPID JERK! HOWE is a JERK! A BIG, STUPID JERK! (repeat) Hey, Smegma, kiss here —>(_*_) Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.com

Response:

Hello jen,

> Why even bother Jerry…

Why shouldn’t I be NICE to you? > especially when you say I’m a fraud…

That’s because you probably are. You’re hoping she’ll buy my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) and be dissatisfied with it, so you can ridicule me someMOORE. But you’re a big spender with other people’s money. I’d have told them HOWE to do the job FOR FREE, using the FREE INFORMATION in the FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves. I’ve been talking myself OUT OF several sales a week, by TEACHING people HOWE to handle their dog behavior problems WITHOUT my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Think I should take away the FREE TRAINING??? But because the original poster isn’t the dog owner, they can simply follow the sound distraction and praise techniques I’ll send them now. You’d have known that, had you read the FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available FOR FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confrontational, scientific and psychological conditioning and deconditioning techniques in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). For additional FREE help for any dog or cat behavior questions, please call or write. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Director of Training, Wits’ End Dog Training Director of Research, BIOSOUND Scientific 1611 24th St Orlando, FL 32805 Fax: (208)460-4270 Phone: 1-407-425-5092 Phone: 1-888-BIOSOUND (1-888-246-7686) http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jen > Thank you, Jen. > > the doggydoright device claims to work… Its guarnteed for life > (moneyback) > > and has a 2 year warrenty. > > www.doggydoright.com > > Give this a go, and let us know if it works. > > Talk to Jerry if you have any questions, He’ll be more than happy > to help you > > out;) > > Jen > > > My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small > one that > > > allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour one > to do > > > someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant > persone. I would > > > like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when he is > gone. My > > > question is, will it work through a window? Some barkerbreakers > work up to > > > 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I > would like to > > > solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the > dog down. > > > Please help me.

Response:

Hello Carola, > My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small one that > allways barks. It is really frustrating.

Yes, I’m familiar with that. I deal with people all day long who’ve got inconsiderate neighbors who’s barking dogs are effecting their health. > I ask my neighbour one to do someting about it but my neighbour is an very > unpleasant persone.

Yes, we’ve got a few "dog lovers" like them right here. > I would like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when

he is gone. That probably won’t work. You could stick your head out the window and scream obscenities at the dog just like the barker breaker does, and get the EXACT SAME RESULTS. Except you wouldn’t get horse from cussin. > My question is, will it work through a window?

Pssst! It wouldn’t work if it’s tied to his tail. > Some barkerbreakers work up to 25 feet,

IF they work at all. They’re not intended for neighbor’s barking dogs. > but does it also work through walls and windows?

If you can scream "SHUDDUP" through the closed window and the dog can hear it, then he would be just as likely to be able to hear the BB. > I would like to solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the dog > down.

I know HOWE you feel about it, this is my specialty. I’ve got the only device that will work and is guaranteed, as jen said. But she wasn’t sincere in recommending my device. I am, HOWEver. But that’s not what I’m recommending either. Jen is a big spender with YOUR money. She only wants you to buy it so SHE can find out if it works. If it don’t work, she’ll be able to ridicule me. If it does work, she’ll still ridicule me, but just won’t use your testimonial. They’ve been doing this for a long time, so don’t be put off by our Gang Of Thugs. NOTICE they don’t have ANY advice about this problem AT ALL, except to tell you to make friends with the neighbor and walk his dog three times a day for him… I’m a dog trainer. That means I should KNOW HOWE to train the dog NOT to bark, even though he’s not yours. Chances are, my standard training advice will work for you as well as it does for the rest of my students. > Please help me.

Here ya go. My machine works better than anything else in the universe, but FREE is better, don’t you agree? The only difference is, this method is going to require some consistant effort for a couple of days, to proprly and quickly break the behavior. You’re also at a disadvantage, as you’re not able to handle the dog yourself (I know if you could, you’d wring it’s neck, so please don’t try to physically train this puppy on leash by yourself alone, out of sight of the public… j;~}) One last point. When the dog first begins to break his barking, you’ll hear an "extinguishment" barking pattern. The regular barking will begin to break up, and there will be "spaces" in between the barks. Those "spaces" require instant praise. ANY WHINING IS GOOD. It’s NOT barking, so PRAISE THE WHINING. When the barking is fully extinguished, THEN work on the whining just as you did the barking. Ask if you need more help. Jerry. SOUND DISTRACTION AND PRAISE TECHNIQUE Using this technique is the easiest and fastest way to break any behavior. There are a number of things that have to be considered when beginning this approach. A few preliminary exercises in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available at: http://www.doggydoright.com will explain the basic handling techniques you should learn. Using them will insure that the method will work to a high degree of proficiency. The problem is that not many people understand how to use the sound distraction and praise techniques correctly, and do not know HOWE to use the come command as a default, if the sound does not work on occasion. When you are told these methods have been tried and didn’t work, rest assured that whomever "tried" it and for whom it did not work, did not "try" doing it correctly. If the technique does not work, the come command is to be used as a default, and a new attempt at addressing the problem can begin. I’ve heard a couple of the "experts" saying they’ve tried it, and it didn’t work for them or it made their dog nervous. Those are usually the experts who choke and shock dogs, and are trying to FORCE the dog using sound instead of choking or shocking… Many of them have never read the techniques presented here, and are using inappropriate or incorrect methods. There are some people who do not follow directions and get lousy results, and there are people who do not allow the technique adequate repetition to be successful. There is no excuse that these techniques will not work if done correctly, they are a scientific fact. Any sound will suffice. Ideally, the sound would be the same each time, but that is not always possible. A single clap of the hands or snap of the fingers would do, if it were followed by praise, and as long as it does not happen twice in succession from the same point of origin. That’s why several penny cans are required, or a friend or family member can be enlisted to clap their hands or snap their fingers, to create another source of sound distraction. You cannot use the same penny can for more than two occasions in succession. Once it’s been tossed, it must remain where it falls, till the exercise if finished. The sound must always be instantly followed by PROLONGED (5-15 seconds), non physical praise. The sound must never occur from the same point of origin twice in succession. The sound must be brief. Any UNINTENTIONAL sounding should be avoided and PRAISED if it occurs. That will let the dogs know it was not intended for them. When more than one dog is present when using sound distractions and praise techniques, all dogs present must receive praise with direct eye contact so they will UNDERSTAND they were not being addressed. The praise must continue constantly for several seconds following any sound cue to allow the thought process to be completed. The behavior MUST be allowed or CAUSED to be repeated and interrupted AGAIN using sound and praise until the behavior is broken. And most importantly, the moment the dog thinks of resuming the behavior, you must praise him. That’s right. When the dog thinks about resuming the behaviorpraise him at that exact moment, and the previous DISTRACTIONS will be restimulated in the dogs mind, and the behavior will QUICKLY be extinguished. That’s why trying to prevent the dog from doing a behavior is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. You end up distracting the dog’s thoughts from the behavior we are teaching or breaking. That seems to be the real hard part for the trainers here to understand. They want to make it happen, and they interfere with the dog’s thought process. The dog will learn through the process of elimination of alternative actions or behaviors. It ONLY takes a few minutes, and the behavior is eliminated, rather than repressed and seething to resume, as is the case with physical or verbal corrections, confrontation, or punishment "techniques." The trainer will confound his efforts when they insist on telling the dog "NO!," instead of relying on the conditioning that has been established. Shouting at the dog will often trigger the opposite of the desired effect. Phyisical opposition is triggered through force or pressure, emotional opposition is triggered through negative emotions. What further complicates the process for the trainer, is that they break the conditioning when they respond with a different corrective technique out of a reflexive reaction of their own, such as screaming "No!," or reaching out to grab the dog and physically correcting the dog for a further instance of malbehavior, rather than taking the moment to THINK about the best way to address the problem, and if necessary, search for a can or figure out some way to create an appropriate, brief, distraction, and follow through with the appropriate sound distraction and praise. (If you’re still following, you now understand why "traditional?" trainers confound their dogs, by jerking the lead and shouting NO. Someone ought to mention that, don’t you agree?) The process must be carried out using an alternate source of sound for the next interruption. An associate could be enlisted and instructed to clap their hands on signal to accomplish the desired sound interruption, a can with some pennies may be used, a coincidental. spontaneous occuring sound might serve us well. Just imagine HOWE your dog is going to react if you knew there’s going to be a peal of thunder, and you timed it so as to correspond to a failed come command??? We want the dog to exhaust all of the alternative malbehaviors he can pull out of his bag of tricks, in order for us to extinguish them EACH in turn. Any time we interact in a behavior by telling the dog no, or physically restrain or correct him, we are becoming part of the behavior, either as a player or competitor in the dog’s mischief. Using sound as a distraction must always be followed by immediate, prolonged, non physical praise. Interrupting a behavior with sound should never be associated with us, as in voicing "no," or telling the dog to "stop it." That’s going to cause animostiy, and teach the dog to control you. The behavior should NOT be distracted with any PHYSICAL INTERVENTION. We want the behavior to begin again, so that we may have another opportunity to properly address the behavior with another sound distraction and praise. That way, we can completely end a problem while the dog is THINKING about it, and we are prepared to address the issue before it becomes out of control. The sound must never occur twice in a row from the same direction. In other words, if you snapped your fingers in front of the dog to stop him from chewing on your shoelace, you’d praise him for five to fifteen seconds immediately upon snapping your fingers. The … read more »

Response:

Gee.. maybe your arent as stupid as you look…. <smiles> Actually…seeing that she was already set at buying a Magic Box, I thought I would recommend yours…seeing as you post no-stop here and you would be available had she had any questions. Jen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello jen, > Why even bother Jerry… > Why shouldn’t I be NICE to you? > especially when you say I’m a fraud… > That’s because you probably are. You’re hoping she’ll buy my Doggy > Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) and be dissatisfied with it, so you > can ridicule me someMOORE. > But you’re a big spender with other people’s money. I’d have told > them HOWE to do the job FOR FREE, using the FREE INFORMATION in the > FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual compliments of the > BIOSOUND Scientific Elves. I’ve been talking myself OUT OF several > sales a week, by TEACHING people HOWE to handle their dog behavior > problems WITHOUT my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Think I > should take away the FREE TRAINING??? > But because the original poster isn’t the dog owner, they can simply > follow the sound distraction and praise techniques I’ll send them > now. You’d have known that, had you read the FREE Wits’ End Dog > Training Method manual available FOR FREE at > http://www.doggydoright.com > You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY > handle and train your dog using non force, non > confrontational, scientific and psychological conditioning > and deconditioning techniques in the Wits’ End Dog Training > Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com > The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided > compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an > alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). > For additional FREE help for any dog or cat > behavior questions, please call or write. > Sincerely, > Jerry Howe, > Director of Training, > Wits’ End Dog Training > Director of Research, > BIOSOUND Scientific > 1611 24th St > Orlando, FL 32805 > Fax: (208)460-4270 > Phone: 1-407-425-5092 > Phone: 1-888-BIOSOUND (1-888-246-7686) > http://www.doggydoright.com > Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. > -Francis Bacon- > There are terrible people who, instead of solving a > problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who > come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head > should, please, not hit at all. > -Nietzsche- > The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems > are learned qualities. > The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the > learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once > challenged, develop and continue to grow > to make him smarter. > The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on > praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and > timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, > constant corrections, and scolding. > -Jerry Howe- > Jen > > Thank you, Jen. > > > the doggydoright device claims to work… Its guarnteed for > life > > (moneyback) > > > and has a 2 year warrenty. > > > www.doggydoright.com > > > Give this a go, and let us know if it works. > > > Talk to Jerry if you have any questions, He’ll be more than > happy > > to help you > > > out;) > > > Jen > > > > My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A > small > > one that > > > > allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour > one > > to do > > > > someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant > > persone. I would > > > > like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when > he is > > gone. My > > > > question is, will it work through a window? Some > barkerbreakers > > work up to > > > > 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I > > would like to > > > > solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take > the > > dog down. > > > > Please help me.

Response:

Category Categories: dogbehaviorinfo.com Dog Behavior Training | No Comments »

Reward for Doggy Do Right info (weekly posting)

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >There is a link to a review from a purchaser of the ddr in > this group. > >Does he get the money? He said it didn’t work, and he was > returning it, but > >it does seem to exist. > He hasn’t applied for the reward. > — > Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at > Hello markie, > That’s because he is not on my records as a customer…

I know you lie about me jer so I figure you are lying about this as well. EdW http://Petloss.com

Response:

>There is a link to a review from a purchaser of the ddr in this group. >Does he get the money? He said it didn’t work, and he was returning it, but >it does seem to exist. > He hasn’t applied for the reward. > — > Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at

Hello markie, That’s because he is not on my records as a customer… You are a weasel. Margaret won your "reward." You reneged. You are not interested in proving anything. You are a koehler trainer, and you approve of HANGING dogs to rehabilitate them. "read koehler for content" is what you’ve said… WHAT CONTENT? BEATING DOGS? CHOKING DOGS? HANGING DOGS? Apr 25, 05:59 PM Margaret Hoffman Message 1 of 19 Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for about one year. It truly does work – at least on my Dobe, Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him personally work with Chelsea. His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog that you will bully, and I wouldn’t dream of hurting her. After Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture, ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash. She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long story and I won’t bore you with all the details, but suffice it to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us. Marge Hoffman P.S. You can send me the reward money, but I won’t sell you my DDR! Another poster with pit bulls and feral cat rescue writes: Hi Jerry, Well, we have been running Doggy Do Right for awhile (3 weeks) now and would appear that it is working. We are still on the lowest setting but my cat aggressive dog is now much calmer with the little fur balls getting near her. Not perfect but much improved! I do think that you need a more universal name as it appears to have drastically cut the spraying problem down that we have with our crowded cat situation. I am going to send an e-mail to Domesti-Cats club, Feral Cat Network and Space Cats Club as a lot of the members have some of the same problems with their cats. It has also lessened the number of nightly cat fights. Thanks, elaine Hi, Lowest setting to us is when the machine is on the least number of times during the day. We are going to try putting it on the next setting and see if that will completely solve our problems. We are holding our breath at this point on the spraying and hoping that BIOSOUND continues to work. Will let you know. Yes, feel free to use my post. If you sell to people with cat spray problems though you might want to recommend that they do what we did. We went through the house with BacTerminator an enzyme product that eats the cat urine. We have used Bac T. for a long time and it usually only slows them down for a week or two, so I know it is the BIOSOUND that has created the success we are seeing right now. We were resigned to constant cleaning and even then it was difficult to keep up with. I don’t know if you have forgotten but we have 19 cats. Elaine

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [This is not spam - I'm offering a reward, not a product or service.] > (NOTE: new info as of 23 June 2000: two more RPDB readers have each > kicked in another $20, and we’ve decided to split the total, so there > are now actually *two* rewards. As outlined in the emailed autoreply, > one person is already first in line for one of them. The other is up > Have you purchased a Doggy Do Right? Or do you know someone who has? > If so, you could earn yourself $40 just for proving it! > (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, take another look at the > newsgroup. The "inventor" only posts about a gazillion ads for this > thing every week, in addition to his other spew.) > The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, > except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the > first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, > but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed > to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the > entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the > other poster.) > And if you *don’t* wish to go through the hassle of proving that you > do indeed have a DDR, we’ll *buy* the thing outright. It’s like > recovering 40% of a worthless investment! the following > text string in your subject line: "sendme ddr reward terms" — case and > spaces are important. You’ll get an automatically-generated email > response laying everything out. > Aside: this offer has been in effect for months. And another regular > poster has actually *ordered* one of these things from Howe, by credit > card, only to have her order ignored well after the expiration of the > claimed 30-day delivery period. My theory that there’s no such thing > as a Doggy Do Right seems to be panning out. > — > Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at

ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw . Hello mark, You are a weasel. Margaret won your "reward." You reneged. You are not interested in proving anything. You are a koehler trainer, and you approve of HANGING dogs to rehabilitate them. "read koehler for content" is what you’ve said… WHAT CONTENT? BEATING DOGS? CHOKING DOGS? HANGING DOGS? Apr 25, 05:59 PM Margaret Hoffman Message 1 of 19 Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for about one year. It truly does work – at least on my Dobe, Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him personally work with Chelsea. His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog that you will bully, and I wouldn’t dream of hurting her. After Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture, ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash. She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long story and I won’t bore you with all the details, but suffice it to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us. Marge Hoffman P.S. You can send me the reward money, but I won’t sell you my DDR! Another poster with pit bulls and feral cat rescue writes: Hi Jerry, Well, we have been running Doggy Do Right for awhile (3 weeks) now and would appear that it is working. We are still on the lowest setting but my cat aggressive dog is now much calmer with the little fur balls getting near her. Not perfect but much improved! I do think that you need a more universal name as it appears to have drastically cut the spraying problem down that we have with our crowded cat situation. I am going to send an e-mail to Domesti-Cats club, Feral Cat Network and Space Cats Club as a lot of the members have some of the same problems with their cats. It has also lessened the number of nightly cat fights. Thanks, elaine Hi, Lowest setting to us is when the machine is on the least number of times during the day. We are going to try putting it on the next setting and see if that will completely solve our problems. We are holding our breath at this point on the spraying and hoping that BIOSOUND continues to work. Will let you know. Yes, feel free to use my post. If you sell to people with cat spray problems though you might want to recommend that they do what we did. We went through the house with BacTerminator an enzyme product that eats the cat urine. We have used Bac T. for a long time and it usually only slows them down for a week or two, so I know it is the BIOSOUND that has created the success we are seeing right now. We were resigned to constant cleaning and even then it was difficult to keep up with. I don’t know if you have forgotten but we have 19 cats. Elaine

Response:

Are you kidding? This bum doesn’t know enough not to hurt dogs to train them, and HE’S a professor of behavior… He’s fond of the koehler methods. Evidentially, he thinks HANGING dogs is more rehabilitative for behavior problems than scientific conditioning… He’s a stone, cold, loser, who punishes dogs because they are an affront to his authority… He’s a PUNK. Jerry. j;~}

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Marshall >Shouldn’t "ninnyboy" be added to the subject line, for you are >writing about Jerry? –Marshall >I have read rpdb for over three years. Consequently, I urge >newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb >regulars from whom I have learned much. They include: Amy Dahl, >Diane Blackman, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, >Nancy Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, Cindy Tittle Moore, >Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, >and Terri Willis. >Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of > http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer >"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, >and is thus a source of civilized delight."–William Safire (Mark Shaw) writes: >>>Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with??? >>If I could be reasonably certain that Howe would use my $100 to >>refill his meds, I might just do that. >>– >>Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at

ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with >>you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to >>bark violently at nothing right in your -Dave Barry > Since the header actually deals with Jerry shouldn’t you have the > fucking brains to know not to read it.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Shouldn’t "ninnyboy" be added to the subject line, for you are >writing about Jerry? –Marshall >I have read rpdb for over three years. Consequently, I urge >newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb >regulars from whom I have learned much. They include: Amy Dahl, >Diane Blackman, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, >Nancy Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, Cindy Tittle Moore, >Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, >and Terri Willis. >Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of > http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer >"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, >and is thus a source of civilized delight."–William Safire >>Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with??? >If I could be reasonably certain that Howe would use my $100 to >refill his meds, I might just do that. >– >Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw >"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with >you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to >bark violently at nothing right in your ear." -Dave Barry

Since the header actually deals with Jerry shouldn’t you have the fucking brains to know not to read it.

Response:

How can you ask someone else to spend their hard earned money to prove a point if you won’ even do it?? And if you guys don’t like what Jerry Howe says ignore him. It will only get worse the more you talk about it. I have been lurking in this group for sometime and I don’t pay any attention to what Mr. Howe has to say. Jackie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with??? > If I could be reasonably certain that Howe would use my $100 to > refill his meds, I might just do that. > — > Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw > "Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with > you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to > bark violently at nothing right in your ear." -Dave Barry

Response:

>There is a link to a review from a purchaser of the ddr in this group. >Does he get the money? He said it didn’t work, and he was returning it, but >it does seem to exist.

He hasn’t applied for the reward. — Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw "Of course dogs can see television, but they have too much good sense to actually watch it." -Ed Gauci

Response:

>Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with???

If I could be reasonably certain that Howe would use my $100 to refill his meds, I might just do that. — Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw "Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to bark violently at nothing right in your ear." -Dave Barry

Response:

Shouldn’t "ninnyboy" be added to the subject line, for you are writing about Jerry? –Marshall I have read rpdb for over three years. Consequently, I urge newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I have learned much. They include: Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, Cindy Tittle Moore, Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, and Terri Willis. Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer "Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, and is thus a source of civilized delight."–William Safire – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with??? >If I could be reasonably certain that Howe would use my $100 to >refill his meds, I might just do that. >– >Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw >"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with >you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to >bark violently at nothing right in your ear." -Dave Barry

Response:

> Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with???

Uhm, because people have bought the thing, and he’s refused to ship it. Lynn K.

Response:

There is a link to a review from a purchaser of the ddr in this group. Does he get the money? He said it didn’t work, and he was returning it, but it does seem to exist.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with??? > Uhm, because people have bought the thing, and he’s refused to > ship it. > Lynn K.

Response:

> There is a link to a review from a purchaser of the ddr in this group. > Does he get the money? He said it didn’t work, and he was returning it, but > it does seem to exist.

Hello Rockflocks, Use you head… > (A purchaser of jerry’s $100 training device has posted a review > Buyer Beware!

That’s an unverified poster. I’ve only got two Phils as buyers of Doggy Do Rigtht (and KITTY WILL TOO), and neither of them are this facetious poster. Here’s a bona fide poster who wrote in to claim the REWARD offered by mark shaw. As I expected, he RENEGED on his deal… Margaret has MET me and TRAINED with me, and RELIES on her Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) to keep her dog CONTENT. Following her post, you’ll find another post from another satisfied Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) owner. That one is a post from the Doggy Do Right owner who advised me that DDR works on cat behavior problems like FIGHTING and SPRAYING… she has a feral cat rescue, and a couple of pit bulls. My black box DOES work like magick to quiet neighborhood barking dogs and stops feral cats from fighting and spraying… My Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) is 100% money back, satisfaction guaranteed FOREVER, and has a two year repair/replace warranty… Shelter and rescue people are entitled to a 25% discount regardless of their tax exempt status. That means that the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves are making their charitable discount possible with no incentive from Uncle Sam…and BIOSOUND Scientific pays all return shipping. So, if my DDR does not do for you what I promise, it will cost you NOTHING. BIOSOUND Scientific has been duly licensed in Orange County, FL, for two years, and has NEVER had a complaint. There’s as many more similar posts as you can possibly ask for. I resent using my good Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) clientele as ”testimonials," but Margaret wrote in to the news group herself, and Elaine was impressed enough with her Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) that she wants everyone else to benefit as she and her animals have. I’m sure you will want to verify the authenticity of the posters below, but unless you can find a respectable person to do that for you, I’m not interested in providing any personal information to the bums like yourself, who can’t control themselves from hurting dogs and are only interested in protecting their alleged right to hurt dogs to train them. Apr 25, 05:59 PM Margaret Hoffman Message 1 of 19 Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for about one year. It truly does work – at least on my Dobe, Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him personally work with Chelsea. His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog that you will bully, and I wouldn’t dream of hurting her. After Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture, ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash. She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long story and I won’t bore you with all the details, but suffice it to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us. Marge Hoffman P.S. You can send me the reward money, but I won’t sell you my DDR! Another poster with pit bulls and feral cat rescue writes: Hi Jerry, Well, we have been running Doggy Do Right for awhile (3 weeks) now and would appear that it is working. We are still on the lowest setting but my cat aggressive dog is now much calmer with the little fur balls getting near her. Not perfect but much improved! I do think that you need a more universal name as it appears to have drastically cut the spraying problem down that we have with our crowded cat situation. I am going to send an e-mail to Domesti-Cats club, Feral Cat Network and Space Cats Club as a lot of the members have some of the same problems with their cats. It has also lessened the number of nightly cat fights. Thanks, elaine Hi, Lowest setting to us is when the machine is on the least number of times during the day. We are going to try putting it on the next setting and see if that will completely solve our problems. We are holding our breath at this point on the spraying and hoping that BIOSOUND continues to work. Will let you know. Yes, feel free to use my post. If you sell to people with cat spray problems though you might want to recommend that they do what we did. We went through the house with BacTerminator an enzyme product that eats the cat urine. We have used Bac T. for a long time and it usually only slows them down for a week or two, so I know it is the BIOSOUND that has created the success we are seeing right now. We were resigned to constant cleaning and even then it was difficult to keep up with. I don’t know if you have forgotten but we have 19 cats. Elaine BIOSOUND Scientific Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) tm The Little Black Box That Solves Dogs’ Annoying Habits. If It Sounds Too Good To Be True, It’s Probably BIOSOUND Scientific Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding further information about the Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) device. There are special discounts available for humane societies, rescue organizations, and anyone working with rescue, regardless of affiliation with a bona-fide organization. Although I agree that more scientific documentation would be appreciated by some of us, I also realize, that any further information on the web site, might create confusion, anxiety, and undue concern for some individuals. Furthermore, due to the proprietary nature of BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology and research, I chose not to elaborate any further for the general public. The information I have shared with some of the department heads of behavioral science at several top universities was, by their own admission, over their heads, and out of their fields of study. (Physics, behavioral psychology, education, neurobiology, musicology, quantum theory, and other related fields.) The BIOSOUND Scientific Integrator, T. M. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO), is a high-frequency psycho acoustic behavior modification device, a copyright sound program, in some regards, like a Zen meditation or Gregorian Chant. BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology is based on proven scientific and psychological principles (state conditioned learning, the Frequency Following Response to facilitate brain wave entrainment, Pavlovian conditioning and de-conditioning, Neuro Linguistic Programming techniques like matching, pacing, anchoring, and flooding, the Relaxation Response, E.M.D.R., and accelerated learning techniques similar to those of Dr. Lozanov and the Tomatis effect. The recent discovery and acceptance of the "Mozart Effect," is also a substantiating factor. The "Mozart Effect" has been ordered to be made available to pediatric hospitals and new infants being born in the State of Tennessee. Volusia County, in the State of Florida has also recognized the benefit of the "Mozart Effect", and has instituted regulations that provide it, and require licensed day care facilities to use it during a mandatory minimum number of hours daily. The legislatures in the State of Tennessee and Voulsia County, FL were impressed enough to mandate Mozart for children in their jurisdictions. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) employs complex waveforms that dogs andd cats cannot resist listening to, and people cannot hear. Within two minutes, you will see dogs carefully listening and calm down, as they become entranced, their eyes following the signal. Doggy Do Rights’ (and KITTY WILL TOO) soothing waveform’s at first pace and are soon paced by the parasympathetic nervous system, entraining the brain to follow the waveforms. Within three minutes, most dogs will begin to yawn, perhaps take some water and come to a sit, due to the stimulation of endorphins. Before five minutes have elapsed, most dogs will lay down in a characteristic relaxed manner. You’ll see the movement of their eyes change from rhythmically pacing BIOSOUND Scientific’s waveforms, to now flickering in an alternating inward and upward direction, as the signals change in complexity. This indicates a mental state of arousal, while the body remains relaxed. Every traditional meditation technique strives for this "state of mindfulness". BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology changes behavior by stimulating information brain waveforms on the cerebral cortex, hollographically. Relaxation, entrainment, and the release of brain hormones override a situation or stimulus previously producing anxiety. In other words, we condition new, good information brain wave patterns in association with stressors. Subsequent introduction of such a conditioned stimulus causes the memory of those stressors to be flooded out with new, good information about a given stimulus. Since single brain neurons can not be inhibited and excited at the same time, by flooding the brain with a calming agent, be it narcotic, electric, or as in the case of BIOSOUND, sonic, causes the inhibiting neuro transmitters, such as endorphins, to be locked into receptor sites. This prevents or blocks out the effects of excitatory transmittors, which the limbic system is producing in reaction to anxiety producing external stimuli, such as thunder, etc. Given the correlation between personality patterns and functional brain wave states, it would reason that to alter brain wave … read more »

Response:

Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with???

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [This is not spam - I'm offering a reward, not a product or service.] > (NOTE: new info as of 23 June 2000: two more RPDB readers have each > kicked in another $20, and we’ve decided to split the total, so there > are now actually *two* rewards. As outlined in the emailed autoreply, > one person is already first in line for one of them. The other is up > Have you purchased a Doggy Do Right? Or do you know someone who has? > If so, you could earn yourself $40 just for proving it! > (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, take another look at the > newsgroup. The "inventor" only posts about a gazillion ads for this > thing every week, in addition to his other spew.) > The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, > except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the > first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, > but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed > to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the > entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the > other poster.) > And if you *don’t* wish to go through the hassle of proving that you > do indeed have a DDR, we’ll *buy* the thing outright. It’s like > recovering 40% of a worthless investment! > text string in your subject line: "sendme ddr reward terms" — case and > spaces are important. You’ll get an automatically-generated email > response laying everything out. > Aside: this offer has been in effect for months. And another regular > poster has actually *ordered* one of these things from Howe, by credit > card, only to have her order ignored well after the expiration of the > claimed 30-day delivery period. My theory that there’s no such thing > as a Doggy Do Right seems to be panning out. > — > Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw > "In order to keep a true perspective of one’s importance, everyone > should have a dog that will worship him and a cat that will ignore him." > -Dereke Bruce

Response:

BIOSOUND Scientific Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) tm The Little Black Box That Solves Dogs’ Annoying Habits If It Sounds Too Good To Be True, It’s Probably BIOSOUND Scientific Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding further information about the Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) device. There are special discounts available for humane societies, rescue organizations, and anyone working with rescue, regardless of affiliation, with a bona-fide organization. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) is 100% money back satisfaction guaranteed forever, and has a two year free repair/replacement warranty, and BIOSOUND Scientific pays all return shipping, so if it does not satisfy your needs, it will not cost you one cent. Although I agree that more scientific documentation would be appreciated by some of us, I also realize, that any further information on the web site, might create confusion, anxiety, and undue concern for some individuals. Furthermore, due to the proprietary nature of BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology and research, I chose not to elaborate any further for the general public. The information I have shared with some of the department heads of behavioral science at several top universities was, by their own admission, over their heads, and out of their fields of study. (Physics, behavioral psychology, education, neurobiology, musicology, quantum theory, and other related fields.) The BIOSOUND Scientific Integrator, T. M. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO), is a high-frequency psycho acoustic behavior modification device, a copyright sound program, in some regards, like a Zen meditation or Gregorian Chant. BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology is based on proven scientific and psychological principles (the Frequency Following Response to facilitate brain wave entrainment, Pavlovian conditioning and de-conditioning, Neuro Linguistic Programming techniques like matching, pacing, anchoring, and flooding, the Relaxation Response, and accelerated learning techniques similar to those of Dr. Lozanov and the Tomatis effect. The recent discovery and acceptance of the "Mozart Effect," is also a substantiating factor. The "Mozart Effect" has been ordered to be made available to pediatric hospitals and new infants being born in the State of Tennessee. Volusia County, in the State of Florida has also recognized the benefit of the "Mozart Effect", and has instituted regulations that provide it, and require licensed day care facilities to use it during a mandatory minimum number of hours daily. The legislatures in the State of Tennessee and Voulsia County, FL were impressed enough to mandate Mozart for children in their jurisdictions. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) employs complex waveforms that dogs cannot resist listening to, and people cannot hear. Within two minutes, you will see dogs carefully listening and calm down, as they become entranced, their eyes following the signal. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO)’s soothing waveforms at first pace and are soon paced by the parasympathetic nervous system, entraining the brain to follow the waveforms. Within three minutes, most dogs will begin to yawn, perhaps take some water and come to a sit, due to the stimulation of endorphins. Before five minutes have elapsed, most dogs will lay down in a characteristic relaxed manner. You’ll see the movement of their eyes change from rhythmically pacing BIOSOUND Scientific’s waveforms, to now flickering in an alternating inward and upward direction, as the signals change in complexity. This indicates a mental state of arousal, while the body remains relaxed. Every traditional meditation technique strives for this "state of mindfulness". BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology changes behavior by stimulating information brain waveforms on the cerebral cortex, hollographically. Relaxation, entrainment, and the release of brain hormones override a situation or stimulus previously producing anxiety. In other words, we condition new, good information brain wave patterns in association with stressors. Subsequent introduction of such a conditioned stimulus causes the memory of those stressors to be flooded out with new, good information about a given stimulus. Since single brain neurons can not be inhibited and excited at the same time, by flooding the brain with a calming agent, be it narcotic, electric, or as in the case of BIOSOUND, sonic, causes the inhibiting neuro transmitters, such as endorphins, to be locked into receptor sites. This prevents or blocks out the effects of excitatory transmittors, which the limbic system is producing in reaction to anxiety producing external stimuli, such as thunder, etc. Given the correlation between personality patterns and functional brain wave states, it would reason that to alter brain wave patterns would facilitate the ability to allow more variations and changes in cognitive states and behavioral responses at the neuronal level. To simplify; we persuade our subject to listen to Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) (flip the switch), and fall into an extremely relaxed state (wait 2-5 min.). Present the stimulus, such as thunder, doorbell, etc. BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology constantly reassures the subject that everything is O.K., and the stimulus is now associated with calm acceptance. Further simulation will consequently stimulate thoughts of calm and well being, thus overriding or flooding the stimulus, which would normally institute a fight or flight reaction. I hope this has provided you with the additional information you requested. If so, please submit your order on the secure order form at http://www.doggydoright.com If it did not, or if you are uncomfortable with, or are unable to use you through the U.S. mail, or provide our toll free phone line to place your order with a live person. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Director of Research, BIOSOUND Scientific http://www.doggydoright.com

Response:

Hey boob, Margaret Hoffman won fair and square. Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (mark shaw) > writes: >The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, >except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the >first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, >but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed >to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the >entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the >other poster.) > Mark, > Add another $20 to that one. I’ll send the $20 when you > privately Email me the evidence. > Something tells me we won’t be laying out the bucks. > One cannot prove a figment of imagination > Caveat Emptor > Bob Maida > Dog Training/Problem Counseling since 1969 > Herndon, Virginia

Response:

>Mark, > Add another $20 to that one. I’ll send the $20 when you >privately Email me the evidence. > Something tells me we won’t be laying out the bucks. >One cannot prove a figment of imagination

I’ll raise the ante another $20, Mark. Same terms as Bob’s. Yikes! $20.00 US? That’s about a million Canuck. The reward is now $80 and climbing – almost a free black box. — –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >writes: >The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, >except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the >first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, >but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed >to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the >entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the >other poster.) >Mark, > Add another $20 to that one. I’ll send the $20 when you >privately Email me the evidence. > Something tells me we won’t be laying out the bucks. >One cannot prove a figment of imagination >Caveat Emptor >Bob Maida >Dog Training/Problem Counseling since 1969 >Herndon, Virginia

You are all fools. Larry

Response:

writes: >The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, >except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the >first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, >but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed >to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the >entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the >other poster.)

Mark, Add another $20 to that one. I’ll send the $20 when you privately Email me the evidence. Something tells me we won’t be laying out the bucks. One cannot prove a figment of imagination Caveat Emptor Bob Maida Dog Training/Problem Counseling since 1969 Herndon, Virginia

Response:

And if the sound doesn’t calm them down you can hit them over the head with it. Jerry Howe (Mr Helper) (Mr. Nice Guy) (Honest Abe) Is mentally unstable and ABUSES dogs.he is worse than a SHOCK COLLAR…the proof

"If the dog is trained properly, he does not think of his protection training as fun and games at the big dog park. During a protection class, the dogs temperature should go up to 106 and he should have loose stools within two or three minutes of beginning the lesson." He tortures dogs till they have a temperature of 106 and have the runs. He is also a puppy mill breeder "I grew up in a professional breeding kennel. I’ve owned stud dogs who’ve sired hundreds of puppies. I’ve whelped thousands of puppies" HOWE disgusting you are JERRY Jerry Howe 626 Raleigh St Orlando, FL 32805 407-425-5092 Jerry Howe and his Doggy Do Wrong are being investigated for fraud. http://www.sound.net/~twillis/Harlan/concerns.html http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408W A List of Jerry’s References from the newsgroups "Jerry Howe is a freak… I have my doubts as to whether he has ever even SEEN a dog never mind trained one. " "That’s not a training method. It’s an abuse method. Pray tell, how does this asshole who has no business touching a dog, much less training one, achieve and control the temperature spike? " "Yeah, that’s rich. He’ll make a dog sick enough to die, ON PURPOSE, but ridicules choke chains?" "He’s rude, annoying, obnoxious, and every other word in the book" "Doesn’t he sell magic black boxes? " "That would be the same person…his magic black box will cure *any* behavior problem, don’t you know? " "It does? It must be used by whacking the dog over the head….I’d like him to demonstrate on himself… " "And yet do you notice that the second anyone talks about choke collars and prong collars and hanging, pinching or twisting he calls it animal abuse? And spiking a dogs temp like that isent? He is a lunatic… best to be ignored. " Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Well Jerry I don’t know who posted that abuse s___ but it sure as h___ weren’t me……. I ant that brave as to compromise my contract with the webtv system . Thank’s though for thinking that I would be that smart ! As for your product , Yes I know it works because the US Army , and the US Marine corps use the same methods for training their dogs for combat. I was in the Marines and know this for a fact. I never said that you method of training did not work . As I said I work in research and development and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know about the silent dog whistle that was used in WW 2 for training dogs. Best within reason and the information that is available to us all on the net there are other products that support your claims as well. In the state of Georgia they are trying to pass a law to make animal cruelty a felony to curb the abuse that has been on the rise in our state. I will vote for it to be active ASAP. If and when I get pissed off at some one I just stop reading their post. Due to the fact that I read this one , means I ant pissist yet. I may make a statement that sounds bad but it ant a gun and ant aimed at you . Its the opinion that I may hold at that time which may change as I am capable of learning new things daily as others do as well . I have only been here for a couple of weeks , In that time you have had good advice printed but staggered through out long complaints. How about the advice first then the complaints , good advice draws more attention to the complaints for opinion. On the my kids figured that out in 30 second , They had a good laugh but still complained. OH well . Good advice is needed so Later.

Response:

Hello Nathren, I take a person at their word until proven otherwise. Please tell me what your children found to be offensive, and I’ll correct my thinking and language appropriately. Sincerely, Everyone’s best friend, Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello nathren, > Well I have to say that it may appear that a premotion may be in here > some where but if I had purchased a device that would not work I sure > as > doggy doo wouldn’t tell any body just to claim a reward. > Your point is? > I would contact the better business bureau > They contacted ME. I’m not a member, as I have no need for an > arbritrator. > and then post the results of my experience . > You’re confusing me, but that’s O.K., I think you’re confused yourself. > From a resent post that I read Jerry needs a prayer just > to stay here with us. > You mean your own post that you sent in under the "disguise" of > Jerry I don’t know if you product works , > There’s LOTS you don’t know, chum. > but that ant why you are bumping your head against a wall, > Well genius, SMARTEN ME UP??? > You are trying to sale a product , > No, I’m trying to educate our dog abusers here on rpdb. > but in order to sale it your attitude has to be right. > You’re stupid enough to think I’m in her KILLING these bums, with the > intent of making them all satisfied Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) > customers? I could care less about their MONEY, all I want them to do > is to STOP HURTING DOGS some more. > Give simple answers and then advertise your product. > Your pals are advertising my product, NOT ME. I’m offering the FREE > Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual, and THAT costs ME sales of my > product… > See? I’m such an inept businessman, that I’m GIVING people INFORMATION > that will HOPEFULLY obviate the need for my for-sale product… SHEER > GENIUS! > And, my for sale product is 100% money back satisfaction guaranteed > FOREVER. > AND, there’s a 25% DISCOUNT for all shelter and rescue folks, > REGARDLESS of their tax exempt status… > Good luck Jerry Howe. > Thanks pal, but YOU KEEP IT. I don’t rely on LUCK, it’s abundant, but > chancy. I rely on the INFORMATION in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method > manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com > I suggest if you want to further harm me, you READ my poorly written, > unedited text, AND CHOKE ME WITH MY OWN WORDS. > Yours for fine dining, Jerry "Mama Cass" Howe.

Response:

Well I have to say that it may appear that a premotion may be in here some where but if I had purchased a device that would not work I sure as doggy doo wouldn’t tell any body just to claim a reward. I would contact the better business bureau and then post the results of my experience . From a resent post that I read Jerry needs a prayer just to stay here with us. Jerry I don’t know if you product works , but that ant why you are bumping your head against a wall, You are trying to sale a product , but in order to sale it your attitude has to be right. Give simple answers and then advertise your product. Good luck Jerry Howe.

Response:

Hello nathren,

> Well I have to say that it may appear that a premotion may be in here > some where but if I had purchased a device that would not work I sure as > doggy doo wouldn’t tell any body just to claim a reward.

Your point is? > I would contact the better business bureau

They contacted ME. I’m not a member, as I have no need for an arbritrator. > and then post the results of my experience .

You’re confusing me, but that’s O.K., I think you’re confused yourself. > From a resent post that I read Jerry needs a prayer just > to stay here with us.

You mean your own post that you sent in under the "disguise" of > Jerry I don’t know if you product works ,

There’s LOTS you don’t know, chum. > but that ant why you are bumping your head against a wall,

Well genius, SMARTEN ME UP??? > You are trying to sale a product ,

No, I’m trying to educate our dog abusers here on rpdb. > but in order to sale it your attitude has to be right.

You’re stupid enough to think I’m in her KILLING these bums, with the intent of making them all satisfied Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) customers? I could care less about their MONEY, all I want them to do is to STOP HURTING DOGS some more. > Give simple answers and then advertise your product.

Your pals are advertising my product, NOT ME. I’m offering the FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual, and THAT costs ME sales of my product… See? I’m such an inept businessman, that I’m GIVING people INFORMATION that will HOPEFULLY obviate the need for my for-sale product… SHEER GENIUS! And, my for sale product is 100% money back satisfaction guaranteed FOREVER. AND, there’s a 25% DISCOUNT for all shelter and rescue folks, REGARDLESS of their tax exempt status… > Good luck Jerry Howe.

Thanks pal, but YOU KEEP IT. I don’t rely on LUCK, it’s abundant, but chancy. I rely on the INFORMATION in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com I suggest if you want to further harm me, you READ my poorly written, unedited text, AND CHOKE ME WITH MY OWN WORDS. Yours for fine dining, Jerry "Mama Cass" Howe.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [This is not spam - I'm offering a reward, not a product or service.] > (NOTE: new info as of 23 June 2000: two more RPDB readers have each > kicked in another $20, and we’ve decided to split the total, so there > are now actually *two* rewards. As outlined in the emailed autoreply, > one person is already first in line for one of them. The other is up > Have you purchased a Doggy Do Right? Or do you know someone who has? > If so, you could earn yourself $40 just for proving it! > (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, take another look at the > newsgroup. The "inventor" only posts about a gazillion ads for this > thing every week, in addition to his other spew.) > The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, > except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the > first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, > but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed > to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the > entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the > other poster.) > And if you *don’t* wish to go through the hassle of proving that you > do indeed have a DDR, we’ll *buy* the thing outright. It’s like > recovering 40% of a worthless investment! > Email me for further details (note the antispam directions below). > Include the following text string in your subject line: "sendme ddr > reward terms" — case and spaces are important. You’ll get an > automatically-generated email response laying everything out. > Aside: this offer has been in effect for months. And another regular > poster has actually *ordered* one of these things from Howe, by credit > card, only to have her order ignored well after the expiration of the > claimed 30-day delivery period. My theory that there’s no such thing > as a Doggy Do Right seems to be panning out. > — > Mark Shaw http://www.topcities.com/personal/mshaw

Hello markie, Here’s a post sent to me from an applicant for your "reward." Following her post about you, is a correspondence she had with YOU. Following that is her original post she sent to me after using my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) for a few weeks. Following THAT, is YET ANOTHER applicant for the reward… who has TRAINED with me. You’re a faker. Hi Jerry, As suspected his reward looks like a hoax. Please see message below that has been sent to Mark. Elaine Yes, I am ready to meet all the qualification criteria listed. The only variance is in the written instructions.. I had those emailed to be so instead of a picture I would prefer to email a copy to you. If you would prefer I can also scan the pics of DDR and email those as well.. Elaine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> According to your automatic response you need items mailed to you so > that you can verify the existence of DDR, however, there is no address listed. > Could you please email the address or would you like me to scan and email all > items to you? > You’re the first to express a serious interest in this, so you’ll have > to give me time to obtain a PO box. > First, please verify (by email) that you are prepared to meet *all* > the qualification criteria listed, and explain any variance in those > criteria you may need or any other issues you may have with it. > Once I have received that email, and we have agreed upon any > variances, I will rent a PO box and email you with the address. Meanwhile, at > that time you can start getting the items together and sending them. > PGP public key available at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw

A poster with pit bulls and feral cat rescue writes: Hi Jerry, Well, we have been running Doggy Do Right for awhile (3 weeks) now and would appear that it is working. We are still on the lowest setting but my cat aggressive dog is now much calmer with the little fur balls getting near her. Not perfect but much improved! I do think that you need a more universal name as it appears to have drastically cut the spraying problem down that we have with our crowded cat situation. I am going to send an e-mail to Domesti-Cats club, Feral Cat Network and Space Cats Club as a lot of the members have some of the same problems with their cats. It has also lessened the number of nightly cat fights. Thanks, Elaine Hi, Lowest setting to us is when the machine is on the least number of times during the day. We are going to try putting it on the next setting and see if that will completely solve our problems. We are holding our breath at this point on the spraying and hoping that BIOSOUND continues to work. Will let you know. Yes, feel free to use my post. If you sell to people with cat spray problems though you might want to recommend that they do what we did. We went through the house with BacTerminator an enzyme product that eats the cat urine. We have used Bac T. for a long time and it usually only slows them down for a week or two, so I know it is the BIOSOUND that has created the success we are seeing right now. We were resigned to constant cleaning and even then it was difficult to keep up with. I don’t know if you have forgotten but we have 19 cats. Apr 25, 05:59 PM Margaret Hoffman Message 1 of 19 Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for about one year. It truly does work – at least on my Dobe, Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him personally work with Chelsea. His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog that you will bully, and I wouldn’t dream of hurting her. After Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture, ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash. She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long story and I won’t bore you with all the details, but suffice it to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us. Marge Hoffman P.S. You can send me the reward money, but I won’t sell you my DDR!

Response:

[This is not spam - I'm offering a reward, not a product or service.] (NOTE: new info as of 23 June 2000: two more RPDB readers have each kicked in another $20, and we’ve decided to split the total, so there are now actually *two* rewards. As outlined in the emailed autoreply, one person is already first in line for one of them. The other is up Have you purchased a Doggy Do Right? Or do you know someone who has? If so, you could earn yourself $40 just for proving it! (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, take another look at the newsgroup. The "inventor" only posts about a gazillion ads for this thing every week, in addition to his other spew.) The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the other poster.) And if you *don’t* wish to go through the hassle of proving that you do indeed have a DDR, we’ll *buy* the thing outright. It’s like recovering 40% of a worthless investment! Email me for further details (note the antispam directions below). Include the following text string in your subject line: "sendme ddr reward terms" — case and spaces are important. You’ll get an automatically-generated email response laying everything out. Aside: this offer has been in effect for months. And another regular poster has actually *ordered* one of these things from Howe, by credit card, only to have her order ignored well after the expiration of the claimed 30-day delivery period. My theory that there’s no such thing as a Doggy Do Right seems to be panning out. — Mark Shaw http://www.topcities.com/personal/mshaw anti-spam: change ‘bang’ to ‘not’ in my domain name to email me.

Response:

[This is not spam - I'm offering a reward, not a product or service.] (NOTE: new info as of 23 June 2000: two more RPDB readers have each kicked in another $20, and we’ve decided to split the total, so there are now actually *two* rewards. As outlined in the emailed autoreply, one person is already first in line for one of them. The other is up Have you purchased a Doggy Do Right? Or do you know someone who has? If so, you could earn yourself $40 just for proving it! (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, take another look at the newsgroup. The "inventor" only posts about a gazillion ads for this thing every week, in addition to his other spew.) The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the other poster.) And if you *don’t* wish to go through the hassle of proving that you do indeed have a DDR, we’ll *buy* the thing outright. It’s like recovering 40% of a worthless investment! text string in your subject line: "sendme ddr reward terms" — case and spaces are important. You’ll get an automatically-generated email response laying everything out. Aside: this offer has been in effect for months. And another regular poster has actually *ordered* one of these things from Howe, by credit card, only to have her order ignored well after the expiration of the claimed 30-day delivery period. My theory that there’s no such thing as a Doggy Do Right seems to be panning out. — Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw "In order to keep a true perspective of one’s importance, everyone should have a dog that will worship him and a cat that will ignore him." -Dereke Bruce

Response:

My ”gimmick" CURES dog and cat behavior problems, and is 100% money back, satisfaction guaranteed FOREVER, and has a two year full warranty and a 25% discount for shelter and rescue people REGARDLESS of their tax exempt status… Read all about it at http://www.doggydoright.com Bye! Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <1RsR4.3634 >You are a blatant liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. Jerry. > No Jerry you are. Not once have proven your claims. You have > readily admitted you are here to sell your little black box. You > have no proof you have ever trained a dog. You claim to be a > scientist, karate instructor, professional handler, and police > dog trainer. You have no creditable evidence at all execpt to > the fact that you are a BLATANT LIAR AND MENTAL CASE. Face it > Jerry you are a FRAUD selling a gimmick. That’s HOWE you make a > living > If you won’t rescue don’t breed > http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hello silvertonguEd, You are a liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. You attack me to divert attention and to defend dog abusers… Here’s proof: YOU SAID: BULL jer, ou ADDED IT if the first place to FRAUDULENTLY CHANGE THE MEANING in order to support YOUR LIE. THAT LIE BEING A DIRECT QUOTE from lyingfrostydahly’s forced fetch page..

> You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article,

I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing the parenthesis. > inside supposedly quoted material, without indicating that it > was your addition.

I suppose you’ve got a different definition. Let’s hear it… This ought to be excellent… > You are even sleazier than I thought.

You BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS to make them retrieve, and YOU call ME sleazy? Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. >> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say

"No! Hold!" use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear chuck the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while saying "No!">>> >> and pinch its ear if a dummy or bird is ever dropped. While

force-fetching is now complete, training has become more varied and interesting and we are sure you will want to continue.>>> HOWE does varying HOWE you are HURTING the dog make it more INTERESTING? >> Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 >> Pinehurst, NC 28370 (http://www.oakhillkennel.com)

Here’s the full text. Got Milk? http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? Aren’t those AMY DAHL’S OWN WORDS??? But SHE don’t DO THAT??? Is EVERYBODY going to ignore the character of these people who lie and cover up for each other? Here’s HOWE they get that happy excited to work look on the dogs… >> Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When

performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> ANY QUESTIONS? Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?: caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello silvertonguEd, > You are a liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. You attack me to divert > attention and to defend dog abusers… > Here’s proof: > YOU SAID: > BULL jer, ou ADDED IT if the first place to FRAUDULENTLY CHANGE THE > MEANING in order to support YOUR LIE. > THAT LIE BEING A DIRECT QUOTE from lyingfrostydahly’s forced fetch > page..

jer, I will not respond to anything you quote because you cannot be trusted to quote accurately. Besides, you are neo even remotely close to responding to what I posted. And as for who is the liar here jer: YOU ARE LYING when you claim I abuse animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim I defend abusing animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim I have pals who abuse animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim you are "ONLY interested in behavior problems here" YOU ARE LYING when you claim to have "HUNDREDS" (he used to claim thousands) of satisfied customers. If what you said had ANY truth in it there would be many links to your website from that pool of customers. The fact is there are NONE. This can be easily be verified by anyone & nothing you say can refute it. Where’s the LINKS jer?? Last but most important jer: YOU ARE LYING about Doggy Do Right. The Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT function as you claim. I refer to documentation that will demonstrate this fact: http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 EdW http://Petloss.com

Response:

You are a blatant liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello silvertonguEd, > You are a liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. You attack me to divert > attention and to defend dog abusers… > Here’s proof: > YOU SAID: > BULL jer, ou ADDED IT if the first place to FRAUDULENTLY CHANGE THE > MEANING in order to support YOUR LIE. > THAT LIE BEING A DIRECT QUOTE from lyingfrostydahly’s forced fetch > page.. > jer, I will not respond to anything you quote because you cannot be > trusted to quote accurately. > Besides, you are neo even remotely close to responding to what I posted. > And as for who is the liar here jer: > YOU ARE LYING when you claim I abuse animals. > YOU ARE LYING when you claim I defend abusing animals. > YOU ARE LYING when you claim I have pals who abuse animals. > YOU ARE LYING when you claim you are "ONLY interested in behavior > problems here" > YOU ARE LYING when you claim to have "HUNDREDS" (he used to claim > thousands) of satisfied customers. > If what you said had ANY truth in it there would be many links to your > website from that pool of customers. > The fact is there are NONE. This can be easily be verified by anyone & > nothing you say can refute it. > Where’s the LINKS jer?? > Last but most important jer: > YOU ARE LYING about Doggy Do Right. > The Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT function as you claim. > I refer to documentation that will demonstrate this fact: > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > EdW > http://Petloss.com

Response:

> You are a blatant liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. Jerry. > jer, NONE of your allegations are true. > Provide PROOF of ONE SINGLE LIE that I have posted. See, > you CANNOT!

All I did was parenthesize the definition of chin chuck… HOWE DO YOU DEFINE CHIN CHUCK, "with that ever ready right hand???" You are a liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. HERE’s PROOF:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here’s HOWE ed earned his lying title: > lyingfrostydahly said: > > > You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > > > word "slap" into the article, > I said: > > I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing > > the parenthesis. > silvertonguEd SAID: > BULL > jer, ou ADDED IT if the first place to FRAUDULENTLY CHANGE THE > MEANING in order to support YOUR LIE. > THAT LIE BEING A DIRECT QUOTE from lyingfrostydahly’s > forced fetch page… > No jer, It was a MODIFIED QUOTE. MODIFIED by YOU jer. > That is why it was BULL. > jer, when you modified that quote to suit your own purposes, > YOU became the liar who’s quotes CANNOT EVER be trusted.

All I did was DEFINE CHIN CHUCK. > EdW <usual rant snipped>

Here’s my "rant" you’ve snipped… PROVING lyingfrostydahly’s ABUSE AND LIES.

> You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article,

I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing the parenthesis. > inside supposedly quoted material, without indicating that it > was your addition.

I suppose you’ve got a different definition. Let’s hear it… This ought to be excellent… > You are even sleazier than I thought.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. >> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say

Response:

In article <1RsR4.3634 >You are a blatant liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. Jerry.

No Jerry you are. Not once have proven your claims. You have readily admitted you are here to sell your little black box. You have no proof you have ever trained a dog. You claim to be a scientist, karate instructor, professional handler, and police dog trainer. You have no creditable evidence at all execpt to the fact that you are a BLATANT LIAR AND MENTAL CASE. Face it Jerry you are a FRAUD selling a gimmick. That’s HOWE you make a living If you won’t rescue don’t breed http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

> You are a blatant liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. Jerry.

jer, NONE of your allegations are true. Provide PROOF of ONE SINGLE LIE that I have posted. See, you CANNOT! On the other hand: YOU ARE LYING when you claim I abuse animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim I defend abusing animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim I have pals who abuse animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim you are "ONLY interested in behavior problems here" YOU ARE LYING when you claim to have "HUNDREDS" (down from thousands) of satisfied customers. If what you said had ANY truth in it there would be many links to your website from that pool of customers. The fact is there are NONE. This can be easily be verified by anyone & nothing you say can refute it. (Where’s the LINKS jer??) In addition, YOU ARE LYING about Doggy Do Right. The Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT function as you claim. I refer to documentation that will demonstrate this fact: http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 EdW http://Petloss.com

Response:

> You can say that. I’ve got hundreds of satisfied Doggy Do Right (and > KITTY WILL TOO) users who’ll tell you it works just as I say it does, > and nobody who has done business with me has any complaints. Jerry.

I would have to have better evidence than your say-so jer. You cannot refute the fact that NOT A SINGLE ONE of your "thousands" of training customers, DDR purchasers, or users of your free manual has been satisfied enough to put a link to your site from their homepage. No links = no satisfied customers. Where’s the LINKS jer??? > P.S. You are a liar and a beggar. Your only motive is to try to > discredit me because I’ve EXPOSED your vicious pals who hurt dogs to > train them.

Not a word of truth in what you say jer. Besides, I don’t have to discredit you. You do a fine job of it all by yourself. EdW http://Petloss.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> jer, > Big deal. It doesn’t prove that it works. > You can sell a 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER dog > turd > & it will still be a piece of crap with a guarantee. > EdW > http://Petloss.com > > Hey, MORON? > > What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER > don’t > > you understand? Jerry. > > > Jer, > > > Your name-calling will not divert attention from the fact that > your > > > Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT > > > function as you claim. > > > I refer you to the unrefuted documentation that will > demonstrate > > this > > > fact. > > > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > > > EdW > > > http://Petloss.com > > > > Hey MORON, Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) > > > <rest of nasty jer stuff snipped>

Response:

>Your pal ed is a liar and a beggar. He defends dog abusers, that’s >his only motive for attacking me… >Try this: lying >piece of smegma!"

Well gee Jerry, Ed is just speaking the truth If you won’t rescue don’t breed http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Your pal ed is a liar and a beggar. He defends dog abusers, > that’s >his only motive for attacking me… >Try this: > lying >piece of smegma!" > Well gee Jerry, Ed is just speaking the truth > If you won’t rescue don’t breed > http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm

This is what is upsetting ed and YOU: Hello doc,

writes: >To those others who may read this post, if you would rather I > ignore Mr. Howe. I will succumb to your requests because I > would rather be valued on this newsgroup than filtered or > hated. But, please know this is just meant to be > entertainment for me (that is my rants against Mr. Howe). >Thanks, >John M. > Dear John, > Yes, please spare us. > We understand your motivation but it would be best if you > simply killfiled Jerry.

I don’t think you do, doc. Perhaps I’m the one that’s been wrong about you. I just occurred to me why YOU are so determined to undermine the EXCELLENT information I offer here…. It’s because both you and john are operating under the same conditions… You are BOTH embarrassed in front of your peers because you BOTH scoffed at my information, and NOW you are ANGRY because there are many people who now see and understand that you are both wrong in your accepting HURTING dogs to train them… You endorse koehler, which means you must be prepared to HANG the dog if he objects to your increasing PUNISHMENT. That’s where john is headed because he can’t lay off jerking and choking his dog. > We’re all going to die and eventually be forgotten.

We are all going to die. YOU will be forgotten. I won’t. > Let us forget Jerry while he is alive.

In fact, YOU will be forgotten in this lifetime… and I’m gonna see to it… > –Marshall > http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

> I urge newbies to ignore Jerry Howe’s abusive, attention seeking > posts and to read:

http://www.sound.net/~twillis/Harlan/concerns.html Yes doc, criticize me, and defend this:

> You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article,

I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing the parenthesis. > inside supposedly quoted material, without indicating that it > was your addition.

I suppose you’ve got a different definition. Let’s hear it… This ought to be excellent… > You are even sleazier than I thought.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. >> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Hey, MORON? > >What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED >> FOREVER don’t you understand? Jerry. > Nice job of marketing there Jerry….especially calling > someone a Moron who has done as much for animal lovers > has Ed has. I suggest you go to his web site where he isn’t > trying to rip off pet owners for $100. The site is beggar’s link > deleted… > Maybe then you will realize who much of an ASSHOLE you > really look like. > If you won’t rescue don’t breed > http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm > Hey powerpoophead, > Your pal ed is a liar and a beggar. He defends dog abusers, that’s > his only motive for attacking me…

Jer, I have NEVER defended dog abusers or abusers of ANY animal. YOU made that one up yourself. > Try this: > piece of smegma!"

Yup. I said it. So what? At the time I meant it too. And the only reason it is on the NG now jer is YOU like to keep posting it. So what do I care. Post away jer. > And this is what he defends:

That is a TOTAL LIE jer. I do not defend ANYONE here. Not even YOU. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article, > I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing the > parenthesis. > inside supposedly quoted material, without indicating that it > was your addition. > I suppose you’ve got a different definition. Let’s hear it… This > ought to be excellent… > You are even sleazier than I thought. > You BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS to make them retrieve, and YOU call ME > sleazy? > Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. > YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog. > YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. > ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper > wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog. > YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less > dogs may require you to progress to striking them more > sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive. > YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. >>> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say > "No! Hold!" use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear > chuck the dog under the chin > with your ever-ready right hand while saying "No!">>> >>> and pinch its ear if a dummy or bird is ever dropped. While > force-fetching is now complete, training has become more > varied and interesting and we are sure you will want to > continue.>>> > HOWE does varying HOWE you are HURTING the dog make it more > INTERESTING? >>> Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 > >> Pinehurst, NC 28370 (http://www.oakhillkennel.com) > Here’s the full text. Got Milk? > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? > Aren’t those AMY DAHL’S OWN WORDS??? But SHE don’t DO THAT??? > Is EVERYBODY going to ignore the character of these people who lie > and cover up for each other? > Here’s HOWE they get that happy excited to work look on the dogs… >>> Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When > performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the > fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been > carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each > dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> > ANY QUESTIONS? > Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more > complaints to my personal email than any other controversial > post I have made to date, bar none?: > caveat > If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would > rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you > have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke > him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, > hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are > appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, > or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your > dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. > Sincerely, > Jerry Howe, > Wits’ End Dog Training > http://www.doggydoright.com > Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. > -Francis Bacon- > There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, > bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who > ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. > -Nietzsche- > The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned > qualities. > The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning > centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, > develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. > The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split > seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless > hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. > -Jerry Howe

Response:

You can say that. I’ve got hundreds of satisfied Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) users who’ll tell you it works just as I say it does, and nobody who has done business with me has any complaints. Jerry. P.S. You are a liar and a beggar. Your only motive is to try to discredit me because I’ve EXPOSED your vicious pals who hurt dogs to train them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> jer, > Big deal. It doesn’t prove that it works. > You can sell a 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER dog turd > & it will still be a piece of crap with a guarantee. > EdW > http://Petloss.com > Hey, MORON? > What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER don’t > you understand? Jerry. > > Jer, > > Your name-calling will not divert attention from the fact that your > > Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT > > function as you claim. > > I refer you to the unrefuted documentation that will demonstrate > this > > fact. > > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > > EdW > > http://Petloss.com > > > Hey MORON, Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) > > <rest of nasty jer stuff snipped>

Response:

>Hey, MORON? >What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER don’t >you understand? Jerry.

Nice job of marketing there Jerry….especially calling someone a Moron who has done as much for animal lovers has Ed has. I suggest you go to his web site where he isn’t trying to rip off pet owners for $100. The site is http://petloss.com/ Maybe then you will realize who much of an ASSHOLE you really look like. If you won’t rescue don’t breed http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hey, MORON? >What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED > FOREVER don’t you understand? Jerry. > Nice job of marketing there Jerry….especially calling > someone a Moron who has done as much for animal lovers > has Ed has. I suggest you go to his web site where he isn’t > trying to rip off pet owners for $100. The site is beggar’s link > deleted… > Maybe then you will realize who much of an ASSHOLE you > really look like. > If you won’t rescue don’t breed > http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm

Hey powerpoophead, Your pal ed is a liar and a beggar. He defends dog abusers, that’s his only motive for attacking me… Try this:

piece of smegma!" And this is what he defends:

> You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article,

I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing the parenthesis. > inside supposedly quoted material, without indicating that it > was your addition.

I suppose you’ve got a different definition. Let’s hear it… This ought to be excellent… > You are even sleazier than I thought.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. >> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say

Response:

Hey, MORON? What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER don’t you understand? Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jer, > Your name-calling will not divert attention from the fact that your > Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT > function as you claim. > I refer you to the unrefuted documentation that will demonstrate this > fact. > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > EdW > http://Petloss.com > Hey MORON, Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) > <rest of nasty jer stuff snipped>

Response:

jer, Big deal. It doesn’t prove that it works. You can sell a 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER dog turd & it will still be a piece of crap with a guarantee. EdW http://Petloss.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hey, MORON? > What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER don’t > you understand? Jerry. > Jer, > Your name-calling will not divert attention from the fact that your > Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT > function as you claim. > I refer you to the unrefuted documentation that will demonstrate > this > fact. > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > EdW > http://Petloss.com > > Hey MORON, Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) > <rest of nasty jer stuff snipped>

Response:

Jer, Your name-calling will not divert attention from the fact that your Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT function as you claim. I refer you to the unrefuted documentation that will demonstrate this fact. http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 EdW http://Petloss.com > Hey MORON, Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO)

Response:

> Sorry silvertonguEd, > My dog training advice works as I say it does, despite everyone’s > lies and objections…

jer, I KNOW you lie about what I have posted so there is NO REASON for me to believe ANYTHING you say. Besides you NEVER provide anything to refute the evidence that your Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT function as you claim. I refer you to documentation that will demonstrate this fact. http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 EdW http://Petloss.com Where’s the LINKS jer?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) is 100% money back > satisfaction guaranteed FOREVER, and has a two year full > repair/replace warranty, and BIOSOUND Scientific offers all shelter > and rescue people a 25% DISCOUNT regardless of their tax exempt > status… > What’s you complaint, except you like to hurt dogs and defend people > who do? > This isn’t a Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) > http://www.doggydoright.com problem silvertonguEd, it’s a DOG ABUSER > DISTRACTION technique of YOURS… Jerry. > A note to any interested reader, jer’s Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT > function as jer claims. > I refer you to documentation that will demonstrate this fact. > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > EdW > http://Petloss.com > > Product description and > warranty > > Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) tm > > The little black box that makes dogs do > right > > If it sounds too good to be true, it

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crate training sites and info

Question:

Just filter the fool…GG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I don’t agree with hitting or abusing dogs to train them, but you difinately > have to find a better way to get your point across, cuase ya know what….its > obviously not wokring. People woul dbe more apt to listening to your advice if > you didn’t come off as a jackass…..do you really think someone is going to > listen to you and and trust you after all your rude posts….I doubt it. Take a > chill pill, and educate in a more low key fashion. I can guarentee you itwould > work. > I could guarentee you if you went to a newsgroup that didn’t know!! > (Keyword…no one has heard of you) Then you calmly told them your ideas and > asked for there thoughts, etc. Then when someone suggests, well I will hit my > dog to get him to do something. Then you come in and say, but there are better > way, and I would be happy to explain. Not by putting a rude post out with all > these quotes from koehler and shit! You are basically giving people ideas with > that and promoting Koehler. > Also…enough with all the MOORE, and all your little code words and you damn > capitalizing every word….they don’t even make sense! > —– Original Message —– > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:26 PM > ed. I wan’t you to prove all your false allegations. People are getting wise > to you and our Thugs, ed. Look around… BWWAHHAHAAAA!!! > Hello Nathan, > > Jerry- > > I have read part of your free book online and do think the information is > > interesting and I have tried a few things so far and they worked great. I > don’t > > have anything bad to say about your training method at all! > Thank you > > I will probably finish it sometime when I have more time. > Just ask if you have any questions or difficulty, I’m really quite patient > and hospitable, and FREE. That’s something I’ve always wanted to be able to > do, train dogs and not have to charge people for it, because it’s something > I love. > > The problem I have with you is cluttering the newsgroups, > CLUTTERING? I’m not cluttering. What I’m doing is JERRYIZING. It’s a tactic > I learned in my experience with Uncle Sam and Special and Psychological > warfare. I give credit to Ssg. Torres: "Piss poor planning makes for piss > poor performance. You’ll work for ME tonight," or quit and go to the back of > the > Conga line. > > having a need to bitch > If dog "exerts" weren’t hurting dogs, I wouldn’t NEED to bitch. If YOU were > able to recognize the improprieties going on in our forum, I wouldn’t need > to be here at all. You and other intelligent individuals would moniter the > EXPERTS for me… and I can get on with JERRYIZING somewhere else, like > where they LIVE and WORK. But in order to do that, I need to fully discredit > them HERE, where I have access to them all. For the first time in thirty > eight years, I’ve been able to level the playing field and snatch them all > up by their ears and give them a good twist all at once. I’ve been through > this countless times in real life, nose to nose with "trainers" like we’ve > got here. I KNOW all their tricks. > > at any and every post, and to coninue to act as immature as you are. > Our EXPERTS HURT DOGS AND LIE ABOUT IT. Complain to them. If they were > just HONEST enough to admit the truth, admit THAT’S ALL THEY KNOW, then I’d > have no NEED to BITCH, would I? SEE? Life gets pretty simple when you’re at > your Wits’ End. > > To tell you the truth, you could sell way more products > I’m not interested in SELLING my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) on the > behavior news group. Mosto of my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) owners > don’t even LIKE dogs. That’s why I’m promoting the Wits’ End Dog Training > Method manual here. It’s YOU and our Thugs who keep bitching that I’ve got a > wonderful product that SAVES DOGS LIVES, just like my methods do. I’m > interested in EXPOSING, IDENTIFYING, and DISCREDITING our dog abusers. > Don’t forget, I’m a dog trainer first, inventor and businessman SECOND. And > that also means second to none. Everything I do is GUARRANTEED. > > with out demanding people to look at your website, > You got a better idea? That’s where the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual > lives. It’s provided FREE, compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves. > > and if you would not act so childish. > You think it’s childish to try to stop these bums from HURTING dogs and > misleading people looking for HELP with SERIOUS problems? Dogs DIE > because of the "information" coming from our Gang Of Thugs. See the threads > "interested in hearing," "1 step forward," and any thread with Fritz, > Samson, definitions of PAIN in training, like with the recent "STICK" > Training, or any thread on poo eating… > Have you read your koehler today? I just got three koehler books outta the > library in case you’d like to discuss REAL dog training with me. Nobody else > seems eager to discuss it, except ron. And I thnk he’s embarrassed himself > outta here by now. READ the thread on the Saga of Annie and the heel > command. BWWWAHAHAHAHAAA!!! OUR OWN THUGS were BEGGING him to quit HURTING > her. BEGGING HIM. > > Your are truely a pain in the ass on the boards, > INDEED. I’m not going to allow this situation to continue without everyone > knowing and UNDERSATANDING they’re CONDONING bums like lyingdogDUMMY telling > Paul and Marty that he’d NEED to HURT their dogs > MOORE than they’d LIKE for eatin poo, digging holes, eating kat scat and > jumping fences. The more serious and life threatening the behaviors, the > more > blatant they are about HURTING the dog to train him "TO SAVE HIM FROM THE > NEEDLE." > That’s why they always tell us to hire a trainer who can SEE the behavior, > so he > can bulls$#!T guillible people into giving them their dogs to hurt for them, > and > empty as much cash outta their pockets as possible with redundant, time > consuming, ridiculous "methods" to "rehabilitate" dogs. When their "methods" > fail, > the dog DIES. Ask Samson, ask Fritz, and keep your eyes on Cubbe, she’s > DEAD MEAT if lia keeps mishandling her as she’s done from the git go… > under > the instruction of PROFESSIONALS like we got right here. > > I have on them for a while, and I can’t beleive how many people can’t > > stand you. > Perhaps that’s because they IDENTIFY with the bums I’ve EXPOSED and > DISCREDITED??? Hmm? I’ve got no problem with J.Q. Pubic who comes in here > all loused up because of some halfwit like lyingdogDUMMY taught him HOWE to > HURT a dog properly and now they got MOORE trouble. I don’t ridicule them. > But sometimes they don’t like to believe they’ve been misled by their pals > they train with every week and write to here. TOUGH. Get used to reality. > > From what I know its not because of your training tactics, > GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT. It’s not MY methods they’re opposed to, it’s > ANY NON VIOLENT TRAINER WHO’S EVER POSTED HERE. I’m the only one > who can talk dog training with these bums without burning out defending NOT > HURTING dogs to train them. > Look up the posts of Marilyn Rammell, Canis55, Master_222, Parker, Aspiring > Trainer, Ray the vet tech, Ray the RSPCA guy, Colette the trainer from UK, > DougDogManger. You’ll SEE a consistant pattern of LIES and DECEPTIVE > discussions to DEFEND HURTING DOGS. These bums have been doing that for > years, till I recognized what’s up, and set out to stop them. > > but because you have no manners, > I don’t HURT dogs to train them. YOUR PALS DO. That’s why they’re bitching > about ME EXPOSING them. Seems to me you’re a little light on dog abusing > lying Thugs, and blaming ME for being RUDE to "experts" who NEED to HURT > dogs MOORE than we’d LIKE in order to train them for simple behavior > problems. cindymooreon has been BANNED from two obedience clubs. WHY? > > and you feel the need to interupt so many good threads. > IF there was good information, I wouldn’t NEED to "interrupt." Do you think > you can TRUST the judgement of some mental midget who NEEDS to HURT > dogs MOORE than we’d LIKE??? That’s what it sounds like to me. > > I think everyone knows about your damn website, so STOP THE > > ADVERTISING…which I must say I would NOT buy from you > You’d be lucky to get one from me, I’ve been backordered since day one. > > because your material sucks, but because your attitude does! > What exactly is it about my attitude you don’t like? Am I too unkindly to > dog abusing lying Thugs? Or is it that you don’t think EVERYBODY can train > dogs WITHOUT hurting them? Or is it you think SOME dogs NEED to be HURT > MOORE than others? Speak up, chum. > Got to be one or the other. SEE HOWE SIMPLE life gets when your at Wits’ > End? > > Nathan > > P.S. Look at all the shit at the end of the message….why do you have to > > post all that crap……Is there a need to add a bunch of useless > information > > to EVERY FUCKING POST!!!?? > Which $#!T? There’s a lot of it there, and it’s there so YOU can read it. > Did you? Exactly WHICH $#!T offends you? I’m offended by ANY ACT OF > VIOLENCE disguised as "dog training." HOWE ABOUT YOU? > What BOTHERS ME AS MUCH, is our dog abusing thugs not being HONEST > enough to ADMIT they HURT and KILL dogs because they don’t know HOWE > NOT TO INFLICT PAIN to train them. > > "Nathan D. Olmscheid"

Response:

Usenet Advanced Search Usenet Help Search all groups Search the Web Click here for information about upcoming improvements to this beta version of Google’s Usenet search. "what" is a very common word and was not included in your search. [details]

> I’ve even been referred to the anti-bark collars, but > I really don’t want to go that route if I can break > him more humanely. But I’m going to have no > choice if he doesn’t stop soon. Please help! > Stephanie

I couldn’t find the original post, so I hope Stephanie got straightened out. But meanwhile, maybe I can set you straight. > Is the puppy in the crate for 8 hrs. a day while you are > at work? If so, that is a long time for a 3 month old > puppy to be confined.

Confinement to a crate is usually the CAUSE of housebreaking and behavior problems. It is antithetical to everything sane and reasonable, it disregards EVERYTHING that Nature has provided regarding bonding, pack leadership, and controling our dogs. I’ve been over this MOORE times than I’d like… and the message STILL doesn’t sink in, because our "experts" here, are only concerned with forcing control and exerting their G-d Like "AUTHORITY," rather than TEACHING the dog to behave as they desire. > Doesn’t he bark during those 8 hrs.? (The neighbors > probably ARE at their wits’ end because of this.)

That’s HOWE COME I’m called Wits’ End Dog Training. Dogs become anxious when they are crated and isolated. That causes them to rely on anxiety relief mechanisms like hyperactivity, excessive barking, obsessive chewing, digging, whining, pacing, self-mutilation, and aggression… WE CAUSE OUR OWN DOG BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS AS A DIRECT RESULT OF OUR INAPPROPRIATE EFFORTS TO CONTROL THEM. > I have read somewhere if all else fails that the vet > can debark him.

INDEED. That WOULD solve the ANXIETY problem, WOULDN’T IT? If ALL ELSE FAILED, I wouldn’t be TEACHING people HOWE to train dogs, because I don’t take kindly, to LOSING. WHAT’S WRONG WITH YOUR THINKING? Dogs bark because SOMETHING’S NOT RIGHT. I teach people HOWE to MAKE THINGS RIGHT, so we don’t NEED to confine, confront, and remove dog’s body parts, beat them, and kill them, when we run out of INTELLECT. Ask yourself "WHY DOESN’T JERRY HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?" And then just answer "BECAUSE JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS WITHOUT HURTING THEM." And THEN SAY OUT LOUD: "IGNORE JERRY, HE’S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS." You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confronatational, scientific and psychological methods, in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided courtesy of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe

Response:

Hello Nathan, > I don’t agree with hitting or abusing dogs to train them,

Of course not. You know it’s unnecessary and wrong. > but you difinately have to find a better way

I have. It’s all in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com > to get your point across,

That’s why I QUOTE our lying, dog abusing Thugs. I QUOTE their methods and their denial of their own written words. > cuase ya know what….

Yeah, I do. I’ve been in this business for thirty eight years. I’ve retrained countless dogs abused by PROFESSIONAL trainers like we’ve got here. > its obviously not wokring.

What’s not working? I’d say it’s working exactly as I’d expected. This isn’t something that started when I came onto this Gang Of Thugs. This has been their M.O. since the group first organized. They’re predominantely koehler trainers here, and they’ve effectively harrassed and ridiculed and contradicted EVERY competent trainer who does not NEED to HURT dogs to train them. That’s all they know here, is to DEFEND their alleged right to HURT dogs in training. Their EXCUSE is they’re PROFESSIONALS, and they KNOW HOWE TO PROPERLY HURT DOGS to train them. That’s why they got me now. > People woul dbe more apt to listening to your advice

Not when we’ve got twenty respected authorities telling people like steve hanson to punish his dog for growling at his kids, and the dog ends up dead DESPITE that three competent non violent trainers told him he would cause his dog to be dangerous. Sampson’s DEAD now. And our Thugs pass around the crying towel telling him HOWE GOOD he done, that Sampson had the best opportunity, but his BAD BREEDING caused him to die at fifteen months. > if you didn’t come off as a jackass…..

POT. KETTLE. BLACK. If I didn’t bust my @$$ working to discredit these Thugs, YOU’D never know what was REALLY going on here. > do you really think someone is going to listen to you

Nobody sees YOU opening your big yap to tell people NOT to HURT their dogs as your pals here teach. THAT’S WHY I QUOTE THEM. > and and trust you after all your rude posts….

I teach people to handle and train their dogs gently, quickly, and easily. Your pals teach people to crate their dogs for two years and punish and correct and jerk and choke and kill dogs they can’t intimidate and dominate into submission. > I doubt it.

Sounds like you endorse hurting dogs. I think you’re a lying Thug yourself. > Take a chill pill,

I just SAY NO! to drugs. > and educate in a more low key fashion.

Like the dozen other non violent trainers who’ve GIVEN UP TRYING here becasue your Thug pals keep coming at them with convoluted arguments and preoposterous hypothetical situations intended to DISCREDIT NOT HURTING DOGS to train them? See? That’s why I think you’re a lying Thug yourself, despite what you said about NOT believing that HURTING dogs is right. I’ve had lots of Thugs give me the same reasoning to LAY OFF OUR ABUSERS. NOTHIN DOIN. I don’t make DEALS with dog abusing, lying THUGS. Your pal boob maida even offered to ENDORSE my methods if I’d lay off him, cause he’s only trying to make a living… BWWWAAHAHAHAHAAA!!! Do you think dog trainers who jerk and choke and hang dogs to train them should be allowed to MAKE A LIVING by hurting and KILLING dogs? That’s why I think YOU are one of THEM. > I can guarentee you itwould work.

I guarrantee it won’t work, because it’s been done by dozens of other EXCELLENT trainers who no longer post here. > I could guarentee you if you went to a newsgroup that didn’t know!! > (Keyword…no one has heard of you) Then you calmly told them your ideas > and asked for there thoughts, etc. Then when someone suggests, well I will hit > my dog to get him to do something.

This is what happens: Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior View complete thread You’ll find that positive reinforcement is really much more effective. I really WISH I had done that more when Guinness was a puppy! After a solid week of sitting for treats instead of jumping, your dog will sit for everybody. > The "yipe" I read about (it was actually an "OWW", but this gets him more > riled up. I (wrongly) pushed him down when he nipped – too hard – a > child, but that seemed just to make him more anxious and "bitey". So, > I’ll try the "rap on the snout" unless others dis-advise and/or provide an > alternative.

UNDER the snout – remember it’s UNDER the snout. They must NOT see the hand coming down from above, this will create a hand-shy dog. It’s a quick rap, just enough to surprise the dog, followed by a sharp NO. END OF SHANNONagains. SEE? > Then you come in and say, but there are better way,

And our Thugs come in with the scare tactics, telling them they’ve got to dominate the dog or he’ll be dangerous. And twenty lying koehler trainers who don’t admit to being koehler trainers are believed, because they use the same defective reasoning and scare tactics koehler taught them to thwart decent people who condemn HURTING dogs to train them. > and I would be happy to explain.

I’m always happy to discuss any aspect of training with anyone. The only problem is, our Thugs do not UNDERSTAND enough about dog behavior to have an intelligent discussion with them, because to have an INTELLIGENT dog training discussion, you’d NEED to be INTELLIGENT enough to OUTWIT a PUPPY DOG. Trainers who NEED to HURT dogs, do so becasue they don’t have the INTELLECT to outwit the cunning puppy dog. > Not by putting a rude post out with all these quotes from koehler and

shit! You mean the direct QUOTES of vicious dog abuse taught by koehler to our Gang Of Thugs who teach it to us? Hmm? And the $#!T? Do you mean the $#!T like this:

something you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro manure." And this: amy lyingfrosty dahl continues: "Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply. REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG. And this: "Read koehler for content" marquis de shaw, IDIOT, Sadist, rpdb regular. "I LOVE KOHELER" lyinglynn, IDIOT, pathological liar, noted dog abuser. Koehler On Correcting The Barking Dog Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you’ve conveniently placed, and descend on him. He’ll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or, if he’s a big dog, until you’ve snubbed him up with a hitch on something (ceiling hook, rafters, tree limb, door, or even over your shoulder, if you know HOWE. j.h.) While he’s held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs. Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it’s the bitter end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat performances that will be necessary. When you’re finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the area again." > You are basically giving people ideas with that and promoting Koehler.

Perhaps. They’d be the mezza morte’s, HUH? > Also…enough with all the MOORE,

She’s got the FAQ’s page where she teaches people to HURT dogs. She’s been banned from TWO obedience clubs, and it wasn’t for stealing their business… > and all your little code words and you damn capitalizing every word….they > don’t even make sense!

I guess my spellin and gramma ain’t as good as my dog training advice, which NOBODY here has legitimately criticized… Adois Muchacho. Jerry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > —– Original Message —– > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:26 PM lies, > ed. I wan’t you to prove all your false allegations. People are getting wise > to you and our Thugs, ed. Look around… BWWAHHAHAAAA!!! > Hello Nathan, > Jerry- > I have read part of your free book online and do think the information is > interesting and I have tried a few things so far and they worked great. I > don’t > have anything bad to say about your training method at all! > Thank you > I will probably finish it sometime when I have more time. > Just ask if you have any questions or difficulty, I’m really quite patient > and hospitable, and FREE. That’s something I’ve always wanted to be able to > do, train dogs and not have to charge people for it, because it’s something > I love. > The problem I have with you is cluttering the newsgroups, > CLUTTERING? I’m not cluttering. What I’m doing is JERRYIZING. It’s a tactic > I learned in my experience with Uncle Sam and Special and Psychological > warfare. I give credit to Ssg. Torres: "Piss poor planning makes for piss > poor performance. You’ll work for ME tonight," or quit and go to the back of > the > Conga line. > having a need to bitch > If dog "exerts" weren’t hurting dogs, I wouldn’t NEED to bitch. If YOU were > able to recognize the improprieties going on in our forum, I wouldn’t need > to be here at all. You and other intelligent individuals would moniter the > EXPERTS for me… and I can get on with JERRYIZING somewhere else, like > where they LIVE and WORK. But in order to do that, I need to fully discredit > them HERE, where I have access to them all. For the first time in thirty > eight years, I’ve been able to level the playing field and snatch them all > up by their ears and give them a good twist all at once. I’ve been through > this countless times in real

Response:

I don’t agree with hitting or abusing dogs to train them, but you difinately have to find a better way to get your point across, cuase ya know what….its obviously not wokring. People woul dbe more apt to listening to your advice if you didn’t come off as a jackass…..do you really think someone is going to listen to you and and trust you after all your rude posts….I doubt it. Take a chill pill, and educate in a more low key fashion. I can guarentee you itwould work. I could guarentee you if you went to a newsgroup that didn’t know!! (Keyword…no one has heard of you) Then you calmly told them your ideas and asked for there thoughts, etc. Then when someone suggests, well I will hit my dog to get him to do something. Then you come in and say, but there are better way, and I would be happy to explain. Not by putting a rude post out with all these quotes from koehler and shit! You are basically giving people ideas with that and promoting Koehler. Also…enough with all the MOORE, and all your little code words and you damn capitalizing every word….they don’t even make sense! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > —– Original Message —– > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:26 PM > ed. I wan’t you to prove all your false allegations. People are getting wise > to you and our Thugs, ed. Look around… BWWAHHAHAAAA!!! > Hello Nathan, > Jerry- > I have read part of your free book online and do think the information is > interesting and I have tried a few things so far and they worked great. I > don’t > have anything bad to say about your training method at all! > Thank you > I will probably finish it sometime when I have more time. > Just ask if you have any questions or difficulty, I’m really quite patient > and hospitable, and FREE. That’s something I’ve always wanted to be able to > do, train dogs and not have to charge people for it, because it’s something > I love. > The problem I have with you is cluttering the newsgroups, > CLUTTERING? I’m not cluttering. What I’m doing is JERRYIZING. It’s a tactic > I learned in my experience with Uncle Sam and Special and Psychological > warfare. I give credit to Ssg. Torres: "Piss poor planning makes for piss > poor performance. You’ll work for ME tonight," or quit and go to the back of > the > Conga line. > having a need to bitch > If dog "exerts" weren’t hurting dogs, I wouldn’t NEED to bitch. If YOU were > able to recognize the improprieties going on in our forum, I wouldn’t need > to be here at all. You and other intelligent individuals would moniter the > EXPERTS for me… and I can get on with JERRYIZING somewhere else, like > where they LIVE and WORK. But in order to do that, I need to fully discredit > them HERE, where I have access to them all. For the first time in thirty > eight years, I’ve been able to level the playing field and snatch them all > up by their ears and give them a good twist all at once. I’ve been through > this countless times in real life, nose to nose with "trainers" like we’ve > got here. I KNOW all their tricks. > at any and every post, and to coninue to act as immature as you are. > Our EXPERTS HURT DOGS AND LIE ABOUT IT. Complain to them. If they were > just HONEST enough to admit the truth, admit THAT’S ALL THEY KNOW, then I’d > have no NEED to BITCH, would I? SEE? Life gets pretty simple when you’re at > your Wits’ End. > To tell you the truth, you could sell way more products > I’m not interested in SELLING my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) on the > behavior news group. Mosto of my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) owners > don’t even LIKE dogs. That’s why I’m promoting the Wits’ End Dog Training > Method manual here. It’s YOU and our Thugs who keep bitching that I’ve got a > wonderful product that SAVES DOGS LIVES, just like my methods do. I’m > interested in EXPOSING, IDENTIFYING, and DISCREDITING our dog abusers. > Don’t forget, I’m a dog trainer first, inventor and businessman SECOND. And > that also means second to none. Everything I do is GUARRANTEED. > with out demanding people to look at your website, > You got a better idea? That’s where the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual > lives. It’s provided FREE, compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves. > and if you would not act so childish. > You think it’s childish to try to stop these bums from HURTING dogs and > misleading people looking for HELP with SERIOUS problems? Dogs DIE > because of the "information" coming from our Gang Of Thugs. See the threads > "interested in hearing," "1 step forward," and any thread with Fritz, > Samson, definitions of PAIN in training, like with the recent "STICK" > Training, or any thread on poo eating… > Have you read your koehler today? I just got three koehler books outta the > library in case you’d like to discuss REAL dog training with me. Nobody else > seems eager to discuss it, except ron. And I thnk he’s embarrassed himself > outta here by now. READ the thread on the Saga of Annie and the heel > command. BWWWAHAHAHAHAAA!!! OUR OWN THUGS were BEGGING him to quit HURTING > her. BEGGING HIM. > Your are truely a pain in the ass on the boards, > INDEED. I’m not going to allow this situation to continue without everyone > knowing and UNDERSATANDING they’re CONDONING bums like lyingdogDUMMY telling > Paul and Marty that he’d NEED to HURT their dogs > MOORE than they’d LIKE for eatin poo, digging holes, eating kat scat and > jumping fences. The more serious and life threatening the behaviors, the > more > blatant they are about HURTING the dog to train him "TO SAVE HIM FROM THE > NEEDLE." > That’s why they always tell us to hire a trainer who can SEE the behavior, > so he > can bulls$#!T guillible people into giving them their dogs to hurt for them, > and > empty as much cash outta their pockets as possible with redundant, time > consuming, ridiculous "methods" to "rehabilitate" dogs. When their "methods" > fail, > the dog DIES. Ask Samson, ask Fritz, and keep your eyes on Cubbe, she’s > DEAD MEAT if lia keeps mishandling her as she’s done from the git go… > under > the instruction of PROFESSIONALS like we got right here. > I have on them for a while, and I can’t beleive how many people can’t > stand you. > Perhaps that’s because they IDENTIFY with the bums I’ve EXPOSED and > DISCREDITED??? Hmm? I’ve got no problem with J.Q. Pubic who comes in here > all loused up because of some halfwit like lyingdogDUMMY taught him HOWE to > HURT a dog properly and now they got MOORE trouble. I don’t ridicule them. > But sometimes they don’t like to believe they’ve been misled by their pals > they train with every week and write to here. TOUGH. Get used to reality. > From what I know its not because of your training tactics, > GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT. It’s not MY methods they’re opposed to, it’s > ANY NON VIOLENT TRAINER WHO’S EVER POSTED HERE. I’m the only one > who can talk dog training with these bums without burning out defending NOT > HURTING dogs to train them. > Look up the posts of Marilyn Rammell, Canis55, Master_222, Parker, Aspiring > Trainer, Ray the vet tech, Ray the RSPCA guy, Colette the trainer from UK, > DougDogManger. You’ll SEE a consistant pattern of LIES and DECEPTIVE > discussions to DEFEND HURTING DOGS. These bums have been doing that for > years, till I recognized what’s up, and set out to stop them. > but because you have no manners, > I don’t HURT dogs to train them. YOUR PALS DO. That’s why they’re bitching > about ME EXPOSING them. Seems to me you’re a little light on dog abusing > lying Thugs, and blaming ME for being RUDE to "experts" who NEED to HURT > dogs MOORE than we’d LIKE in order to train them for simple behavior > problems. cindymooreon has been BANNED from two obedience clubs. WHY? > and you feel the need to interupt so many good threads. > IF there was good information, I wouldn’t NEED to "interrupt." Do you think > you can TRUST the judgement of some mental midget who NEEDS to HURT > dogs MOORE than we’d LIKE??? That’s what it sounds like to me. > I think everyone knows about your damn website, so STOP THE > ADVERTISING…which I must say I would NOT buy from you > You’d be lucky to get one from me, I’ve been backordered since day one. > because your material sucks, but because your attitude does! > What exactly is it about my attitude you don’t like? Am I too unkindly to > dog abusing lying Thugs? Or is it that you don’t think EVERYBODY can train > dogs WITHOUT hurting them? Or is it you think SOME dogs NEED to be HURT > MOORE than others? Speak up, chum. > Got to be one or the other. SEE HOWE SIMPLE life gets when your at Wits’ > End? > Nathan > P.S. Look at all the shit at the end of the message….why do you have to > post all that crap……Is there a need to add a bunch of useless > information > to EVERY FUCKING POST!!!?? > Which $#!T? There’s a lot of it there, and it’s there so YOU can read it. > Did you? Exactly WHICH $#!T offends you? I’m offended by ANY ACT OF > VIOLENCE disguised as "dog training." HOWE ABOUT YOU? > What BOTHERS ME AS MUCH, is our dog abusing thugs not being HONEST > enough to ADMIT they HURT and KILL dogs because they don’t know HOWE > NOT TO INFLICT PAIN to train them. > CARE TO TAKE ISSUE WITH MY POSTS AND TRAINING INFORMATION. > "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something you twisted out > of context, because you are full of bizarro manure." > Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and says: > "I don’t beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the benefit of anyone

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:26 PM ed. I wan’t you to prove all your false allegations. People are getting wise to you and our Thugs, ed. Look around… BWWAHHAHAAAA!!! Hello Nathan, > Jerry- > I have read part of your free book online and do think the information is > interesting and I have tried a few things so far and they worked great. I don’t > have anything bad to say about your training method at all! Thank you > I will probably finish it sometime when I have more time. Just ask if you have any questions or difficulty, I’m really quite patient and hospitable, and FREE. That’s something I’ve always wanted to be able to do, train dogs and not have to charge people for it, because it’s something I love. > The problem I have with you is cluttering the newsgroups, CLUTTERING? I’m not cluttering. What I’m doing is JERRYIZING. It’s a tactic I learned in my experience with Uncle Sam and Special and Psychological warfare. I give credit to Ssg. Torres: "Piss poor planning makes for piss poor performance. You’ll work for ME tonight," or quit and go to the back of the Conga line. > having a need to bitch If dog "exerts" weren’t hurting dogs, I wouldn’t NEED to bitch. If YOU were able to recognize the improprieties going on in our forum, I wouldn’t need to be here at all. You and other intelligent individuals would moniter the EXPERTS for me… and I can get on with JERRYIZING somewhere else, like where they LIVE and WORK. But in order to do that, I need to fully discredit them HERE, where I have access to them all. For the first time in thirty eight years, I’ve been able to level the playing field and snatch them all up by their ears and give them a good twist all at once. I’ve been through this countless times in real life, nose to nose with "trainers" like we’ve got here. I KNOW all their tricks. > at any and every post, and to coninue to act as immature as you are. Our EXPERTS HURT DOGS AND LIE ABOUT IT. Complain to them. If they were just HONEST enough to admit the truth, admit THAT’S ALL THEY KNOW, then I’d have no NEED to BITCH, would I? SEE? Life gets pretty simple when you’re at your Wits’ End. > To tell you the truth, you could sell way more products I’m not interested in SELLING my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) on the behavior news group. Mosto of my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) owners don’t even LIKE dogs. That’s why I’m promoting the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual here. It’s YOU and our Thugs who keep bitching that I’ve got a wonderful product that SAVES DOGS LIVES, just like my methods do. I’m interested in EXPOSING, IDENTIFYING, and DISCREDITING our dog abusers. Don’t forget, I’m a dog trainer first, inventor and businessman SECOND. And that also means second to none. Everything I do is GUARRANTEED. > with out demanding people to look at your website, You got a better idea? That’s where the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual lives. It’s provided FREE, compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves. > and if you would not act so childish. You think it’s childish to try to stop these bums from HURTING dogs and misleading people looking for HELP with SERIOUS problems? Dogs DIE because of the "information" coming from our Gang Of Thugs. See the threads "interested in hearing," "1 step forward," and any thread with Fritz, Samson, definitions of PAIN in training, like with the recent "STICK" Training, or any thread on poo eating… Have you read your koehler today? I just got three koehler books outta the library in case you’d like to discuss REAL dog training with me. Nobody else seems eager to discuss it, except ron. And I thnk he’s embarrassed himself outta here by now. READ the thread on the Saga of Annie and the heel command. BWWWAHAHAHAHAAA!!! OUR OWN THUGS were BEGGING him to quit HURTING her. BEGGING HIM. > Your are truely a pain in the ass on the boards, INDEED. I’m not going to allow this situation to continue without everyone knowing and UNDERSATANDING they’re CONDONING bums like lyingdogDUMMY telling Paul and Marty that he’d NEED to HURT their dogs MOORE than they’d LIKE for eatin poo, digging holes, eating kat scat and jumping fences. The more serious and life threatening the behaviors, the more blatant they are about HURTING the dog to train him "TO SAVE HIM FROM THE NEEDLE." That’s why they always tell us to hire a trainer who can SEE the behavior, so he can bulls$#!T guillible people into giving them their dogs to hurt for them, and empty as much cash outta their pockets as possible with redundant, time consuming, ridiculous "methods" to "rehabilitate" dogs. When their "methods" fail, the dog DIES. Ask Samson, ask Fritz, and keep your eyes on Cubbe, she’s DEAD MEAT if lia keeps mishandling her as she’s done from the git go… under the instruction of PROFESSIONALS like we got right here. > I have on them for a while, and I can’t beleive how many people can’t > stand you. Perhaps that’s because they IDENTIFY with the bums I’ve EXPOSED and DISCREDITED??? Hmm? I’ve got no problem with J.Q. Pubic who comes in here all loused up because of some halfwit like lyingdogDUMMY taught him HOWE to HURT a dog properly and now they got MOORE trouble. I don’t ridicule them. But sometimes they don’t like to believe they’ve been misled by their pals they train with every week and write to here. TOUGH. Get used to reality. > From what I know its not because of your training tactics, GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT. It’s not MY methods they’re opposed to, it’s ANY NON VIOLENT TRAINER WHO’S EVER POSTED HERE. I’m the only one who can talk dog training with these bums without burning out defending NOT HURTING dogs to train them. Look up the posts of Marilyn Rammell, Canis55, Master_222, Parker, Aspiring Trainer, Ray the vet tech, Ray the RSPCA guy, Colette the trainer from UK, DougDogManger. You’ll SEE a consistant pattern of LIES and DECEPTIVE discussions to DEFEND HURTING DOGS. These bums have been doing that for years, till I recognized what’s up, and set out to stop them. > but because you have no manners, I don’t HURT dogs to train them. YOUR PALS DO. That’s why they’re bitching about ME EXPOSING them. Seems to me you’re a little light on dog abusing lying Thugs, and blaming ME for being RUDE to "experts" who NEED to HURT dogs MOORE than we’d LIKE in order to train them for simple behavior problems. cindymooreon has been BANNED from two obedience clubs. WHY? > and you feel the need to interupt so many good threads. IF there was good information, I wouldn’t NEED to "interrupt." Do you think you can TRUST the judgement of some mental midget who NEEDS to HURT dogs MOORE than we’d LIKE??? That’s what it sounds like to me. > I think everyone knows about your damn website, so STOP THE > ADVERTISING…which I must say I would NOT buy from you You’d be lucky to get one from me, I’ve been backordered since day one. > because your material sucks, but because your attitude does! What exactly is it about my attitude you don’t like? Am I too unkindly to dog abusing lying Thugs? Or is it that you don’t think EVERYBODY can train dogs WITHOUT hurting them? Or is it you think SOME dogs NEED to be HURT MOORE than others? Speak up, chum. Got to be one or the other. SEE HOWE SIMPLE life gets when your at Wits’ End? > Nathan > P.S. Look at all the shit at the end of the message….why do you have to > post all that crap……Is there a need to add a bunch of useless information > to EVERY FUCKING POST!!!?? Which $#!T? There’s a lot of it there, and it’s there so YOU can read it. Did you? Exactly WHICH $#!T offends you? I’m offended by ANY ACT OF VIOLENCE disguised as "dog training." HOWE ABOUT YOU? What BOTHERS ME AS MUCH, is our dog abusing thugs not being HONEST enough to ADMIT they HURT and KILL dogs because they don’t know HOWE NOT TO INFLICT PAIN to train them. > CARE TO TAKE ISSUE WITH MY POSTS AND TRAINING INFORMATION. > "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something you twisted out > of context, because you are full of bizarro manure." > Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and says: > "I don’t beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the benefit of anyone who > is in doubt, and who chooses not to read the article (SHE’D REALLY LIKE IT > IF YOU DON’T READ IT!), there is NO mention in it of "twisting ears (INDEED, > SHE PINCHES THEM WITH SPIKES). > I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO BEAT DOGS WITH > STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM). > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog (SHE’S A PROVEN LIAR AND DOG > ABUSER, do you expect her to ADMIT THE TRUTH???). > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, where slapping a dog > is anything but destructive." > RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists… and chin cuff doesn’t mean hit, according > to lyinglynn and avrama…. > amy lyingfrosty dahl continues: > "Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, > or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress > to striking them more sharply. > REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG. > Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of as > force-fetching: the ear pinch. Make the dog’s need to stop the pinching so > urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.but will squeal, thrash > around, and direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch even get a > studded collar and pinch the ear against that if the dog still does not open > its mouth, get out the shotshell.Try pinching the ear between the metal > casing and the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, > the dog will give in"

Response:

CARE TO TAKE ISSUE WITH MY POSTS AND TRAINING INFORMATION.

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro manure." Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and says: "I don’t beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the benefit of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses not to read the article (SHE’D REALLY LIKE IT IF YOU DON’T READ IT!), there is NO mention in it of "twisting ears (INDEED, SHE PINCHES THEM WITH SPIKES). I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM). I would never advise anyone to slap a dog (SHE’S A PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER, do you expect her to ADMIT THE TRUTH???). I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, where slapping a dog is anything but destructive." RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists… and chin cuff doesn’t mean hit, according to lyinglynn and avrama…. amy lyingfrosty dahl continues: "Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply. REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG. Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch. Make the dog’s need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth, get out the shotshell.Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in" With your hand on the collar and ear, say, ‘fetch.’ Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick. Repeat ‘fetch’ and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy. You can press the dog’s ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb; Say ‘fetch’ while pressing the dummy against its lips and pinching its ear." Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes koheler look like St. Francis. "Read koehler for content" marquis de shaw, IDIOT, Sadist, rpdb regular. "I LOVE KOHELER" lyinglynn, IDIOT, pathological liar, noted dog abuser. "Read koehler for content" marquis de shaw, IDIOT, Sadist, rpdb regular. "I LOVE KOHELER" lyinglynn, IDIOT, pathological liar, noted dog abuser. Koehler On Correcting The Barking Dog Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you’ve conveniently placed, and descend on him. He’ll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or, if he’s a big dog, until you’ve snubbed him up with a hitch on something (ceiling hook, rafters, tree limb, door, or even over your shoulder, if you know HOWE. j.h.) While he’s held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs. Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it’s the bitter end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat performances that will be necessary. When you’re finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the area again." Tell us HOWE the dog knows he shouldn’t be barking? That is, until the beatings take effect, after ENOUGH lessons of "hard spankings of long duration??? It’s IN THE BOOK. Tell us HOWE COME you think dogs might want to take a big chunk out of an abusive Thug who beats him every twenty minutes for crappin on the floor in a room you’ve restricted him to for this purpose, and then tied him next to a forced accident? And when koehler OCCASIONALLY finds a dog who objects to his training, why does he HANG the dog, instead of calming them down and teaching them there’s nothing to be afraid of??? That’s the ONLY question ANYONE of you CAN answer. The answer is OBVIOUS. koehler trainers are DOG ABUSING COWARDS HOWE MUCH brains does it take to beat a dog every twenty minutes for the same mistake you’ve tied it next to???

Response:

Hi all…. Looking for some real good sites for anything crate training…over here in Australia it isn’t as well known and its hard hearing people saying "locking a dog in that cage is cruel!" Help me get some more info to prove them wrong?! Thanks heaps in advance Layka

Response:

Jerry, you are a pain in the ASS!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> layka, > Beware of Jerry Howe. > I’d like you to quote my lies, ed. I wan’t you to prove all your false > allegations. People are getting wise to you and our Thugs, ed. Look around.. > BWWAHHAHAAAA!!! > OK jer, I’ll let this particular thread drop now that you have proven my > point that your "testimonials" are indeed phony. > I’ll repost them again. I suggest you write to http://www.spacecats.com and > complain I’m using their membership to promote my fraudulent product. > You’re a psychopath. Write to the secretary of Space Cats Club Feral Cat > Rescue http://www.spacecats.com/feralcats/index.htm and mention Desiree > Webber and Elaine McClung. If everybody writes and complains, they’re sure > to prohibit me from using those endorsements, eh??? Go ahead Gang, I DARE > YOU. We’ll see who uses their real names. > You are SO easy to manipulate. > Yes. EVERYBODY is manipulating me… Just look at the posts making fun of > me. > BTW jer, did you know my website is 1000 times more popular than yours? > LOL. > Did you know I’m not interested in promoting my website anyMOORE than I > have? I’ve got a reason for that, ed. I don’t want sites like YOURS to link > to mine. I’ll be linking to YOURS in a while… I’ve got a blacklist that > will disqualify our shelter and rescue folks from qualifying for the 25% > discount for Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) becasue of links to sites > like yours and cindymooreon’s and blackman’s. SEE? You’re a pawn in the big > scheme of things. And you’ve responded MARVELOUSLY for me. > Thanks for the koehler book reviews. > Maybe it is because I don’t go around lying and slandering people like you > do. > SUE ME. I’ll be coming after YOU when the time is right… heh, heh, heh. > Till then, I want you right here. > Bye! > Maybe Space Cats Club will decide to prosecute me for fraud and damaging > their good reputation? Then you’ll be able to prove you’re not a lying, dog > abusing, coward, Thug beggar, eh? It’s worth a shot ed, it’s your only hope > to get yourself out of the spot you’ve dug yourself into. People aren’t > going to be > impressed with you and our Gang Of Thugs. BWWWAHAHAHAAA!!! > You BEG people for money for NUTHIN. And you want them to HURT their dogs > so they’ll feel REAL GUILTY when they NEED to KILL their dogs because > they’ve been jerking and choking and intimidating their dogs according to > koehler and your Thug pals here. > You’ve never done anything here but spam your own pet loss site and injure a > few people who were foolish enough to believe a koehler freak like you > telling them not to listen to me because I’m not even able to HURT a dog > PROPERLY to train him… > Search Result 9 > DIDN’T tell you about. Decide for yourself (long) > Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior > View complete thread > Customer reviews of The Koehler Method Of Dog Training > Old Fashioned? No Way! > "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is > something you twisted out of context, because you are > full of bizarro manure." > "The Koehler Method of Dog Training" , Howell Book House, 1996": > BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING > The fact that you realize you have such a problem > makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often > enough to let him know you were against his sound > effects, even though your reproving didn’t quiet them, > so we’ll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of > water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start > with something more emphatic. > We’ll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: > the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and > windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary > people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a > good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and > plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use his > mind rather than his mouth. > But you won’t make the permanent impression unless > you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise > the control he thus acquires. Make sure these > opportunities don’t always come at the same time > of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet > hour" and pursue his old routines at other times. > With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow > the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the > most from his lesson. As was mentioned before, > eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the > dog’s value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows > more discriminating, increase it. > The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or > lonesomeness because you’re gone constitutes a > different problem. If it is impractical for someone > to stay with him constantly (there are owners who > cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you’ll have > to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. > This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand. > Attach a line to your dog’s collar, so your corrective > effort doesn’t turn into a footrace around the house > until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of > the line in the correction will also serve to establish it > as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around > when you’re not present. > Next, equip yourself with a man’s leather belt or a > strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good > tanning. Yup-we’re going to strike him. Real hard. > Remember, you’re dealing with a dog who knows he > should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to > see that he does. > When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to > the door so you can barge in while he’s still barking, > which is generally impossible, respond to his first > sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep > on bellowing as you charge back to his area. > Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt > that you’ve conveniently placed, and descend on him. > He’ll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and > reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or, > if he’s a big dog, until you’ve snubbed him up with a > hitch on something. > While he’s held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs. > Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it’s the bitter > end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on > the number of repeat performances that will be > necessary. > When you’re finished and the dog is convinced that he > is, put him on a long down to think things over while > you catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, > release him from the stay and leave the area again. > So that you won’t feel remorseful, reflect on the truth > that a great percentage of the barkers who are given > away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box > with the sweet smell. Personally, I’ve always felt that > it’s even better to spank children, even if they "cry > out," than to "put them to sleep." > You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch > before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he > does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent > correction to his first sound and repeat the > spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more. > After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the > correction" will be tied in close enough association so > that you can move in on him without the preliminary > bellowing of "out." From then on, it’s just a case of > laying for the dog and supplying enough bad > consequences of his noise so he’ll no longer feel like gambling. > If there has been a long history of barking and whining, > it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be > quiet when you’re not around, so give the above > method an honest try before you presume your dog > requires a more severe correction. > "Housebreaking Problems": > Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to > relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how > often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog > may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped > with a collar and piece of line so he can’t avoid correction. > When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to > the place of his error, and hold his head close enough > so that he associates his error with the punishment. > Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or > switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper. > It is important to your future relationship that you do > not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him. > When he’s been spanked, take him outside. Chances > are, if you are careful in your feeding and close > observation, you will not have to do much punishing. > Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost > house-broken and then force him to commit an error by > not providing an opportunity to go outside is very > unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier. > The same general techniques of housebreaking apply > to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house. > For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and > then backslides, the method of correction differs > somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the > "revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by > messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed. > The first step of correction is to confine the dog > closely in a part of the house when you go away, so > that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The > fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof > that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you > no other course than to punish him sufficiently to > convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is > not worth the

Response:

Category Categories: Dog Behavior Problem | No Comments »

non stop barking sheltie

Question:

I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that she barks at everything! I have had her for about 7 months (long enough for her to relax in her new enviroment) I hoped that when she first joined the family she would settle down but she has not. I have been working with her on her barking for about one month now by saying in a firm voice each time she barks quiet and when she settles down givving her a treat and telling her good quiet, good girl. About 2/3’s of the time she gets the treat 1/3 of the time just the good quiet with petting. I think that the only thing that she has learned is to sit pretty for the bisket. Does anyone have any more suggestions. I am rather against any form of negiative re-enforcement as she is a rescue dog and was removed from a physicaly damaging enviroment. Thanks for any suggestions or corrections on what I am doing

Response:

My parents have a sheltie who also barks non-stop. She stares out the window all day long, and barks at anything and everything that moves. she also barks like this when she is outside. I’ve been told that this is inherent in shelties, because of their herding instinct, but I don’t know if that’s true. My parents, who have floor to ceiling windows in their house, but some glazed plastic at the bottom of each window at "dog level" so the dog can’t see what’s going outside. This has quieted her down inside… good luck, and let me know if you come up with anything better….

: I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that : she barks at everything! I have had her for about 7 months (long enough : for her to relax in her new enviroment) I hoped that when she first : joined the family she would settle down but she has not. I have been : working with her on her barking for about one month now by saying in a : firm voice each time she barks quiet and when she settles down givving : her a treat and telling her good quiet, good girl. About 2/3’s of the : time she gets the treat 1/3 of the time just the good quiet with : petting. I think that the only thing that she has learned is to sit : pretty for the bisket. Does anyone have any more suggestions. I am : rather against any form of negiative re-enforcement as she is a rescue : dog and was removed from a physicaly damaging enviroment. : : Thanks for any suggestions or corrections on what I am doing :

Response:

>I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that >she barks at everything!

You have your work cut out for you. That’s ’cause she was bred to bark. <http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/breeds/shelties.html> <http://www.linkny.com/~sugarhil/so_you_want_to_own_a_sheltie.htm> <http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/shetlandsheepdog.htm> >I have had her for about 7 months (long enough >for her to relax in her new enviroment) I hoped that when she first >joined the family she would settle down but she has not.

You essentially have to figure out what "triggers" her barking. Try here: <http://www.petwarehouse2.com/roversrange/behavior/stopbarking.asp> And good luck! :>) — Dogman http://www.i1.net/~dogman "I really dislike – thats (sic) too harsh but the best I can state it – the entire sporting group and cannot imagine being forced to live with one – not my types at all!" Nancy Holmes

Response:

BWWWAHAHAHHAAHAAA!!! You’re giving them cindymooreon’s site. She’s a SADIST. She’s been thrown out of two obedience clubs. The other site sells shock collars. That’s all you know, is HURT the dog, huh? You’re an anonymous, lying, dog abusing cowardly thug. You told Paul and Marty you’d NEED to HURT their dogs MOORE than they’d LIKE for just eating poo. You couldn’t outwit a puppy dog if his life depended on it. Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe. j;~}

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that >she barks at everything! > You have your work cut out for you. > That’s ’cause she was bred to bark. > <http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/breeds/shelties.html> > <http://www.linkny.com/~sugarhil/so_you_want_to_own_a_sheltie.htm> > <http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/shetlandsheepdog.htm> >I have had her for about 7 months (long enough >for her to relax in her new enviroment) I hoped that when she first >joined the family she would settle down but she has not. > You essentially have to figure out what "triggers" her barking. > Try here: > <http://www.petwarehouse2.com/roversrange/behavior/stopbarking.asp> > And good luck! > :>) > — > Dogman > http://www.i1.net/~dogman > "I really dislike – thats (sic) too harsh but the best I can state it – the entire > sporting group and cannot imagine being forced to live with one – not my types at all!" Nancy Holmes

Response:

>I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that >she barks at everything!

From what I’ve seen of shelties, barking is what they do. :} I had a lot of trouble getting my Eskie to stop barking. In fact, I NEVER got my Eskie to stop barking. I did get him to bark less, though. If he was outside in the yard barking, I’d just take him in. If he was looking out the window barking, I’d close the curtains. Trying to distract him from the barking stimulus was about the best I could do. Another thing that worked with him was to get on the floor with him, put my arms around him and cuddle him, and say, "Shhhh" very softly right in his face. He would eventually go from full-fledge barks to quiet "talking." I’m sure others here have better advice. :} Learn How to Can Spam http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml http://www.spamfree.org/ WHITE HAT OF THE MONTH – Nominate At: http://www.whitehat.com/whotm/ Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)

Response:

Hello Barb,

> I took in a rescue sheltie.

Our pal lyingdogDUMMY for got to congratulate you and welcome you to the group. I guess he didn’t want to stick around any longer than necessary. > In every way she is wonderfull except that > she barks at everything!

Like our pal lyingdogDUMMY says, you’ve identified the problem… > I have had her for about 7 months (long enough > for her to relax in her new enviroment) I hoped that when > she first joined the family she would settle down but she > has not.

There’s probably lots of reasons for that. I’ve got lots of suggestions that will fix her up fast. > I have been working with her on her barking for about one > month now by saying in a firm voice each time she barks > quiet

That’s giving her the wrong message. You should tell her she’s a good dog for barking. That’s her job, she’s a dog. Dogs bark because they’re SCARED. She’s telling you there’s something to be scared of. When you tell her NO, you’re telling her that her instincts are wrong. That tells her not to trust your judgement. That makes her more scared. > and when she settles down givving her a treat and > telling her good quiet, good girl.

After the initial thought of the behavior has left her mind and the behavior has begun, the treat cannot be associated with the behavior that has STOPPED. Her mind is on something entirely different. So, basically it’s your timing that’s off. You need to distract and praise as soon as you notice the thought of the behavior being formed. > About 2/3’s of the time she gets the treat 1/3 of the time > just the good quiet with petting. I think that the only thing > that she has learned is to sit pretty for the bisket.

Yeah. Furthermore, when you use a treat to reward a behavior, often the treat takes the dog’s mind too far from the behavior for the dog to be able to learn the behavior in context. In essence, you are limiting the dog’s scope and function by not challenging him to think and work for you. And treats often fail when something more desirable comes along. Treats appeal to the lowest level of consciousness, the gut. > Does anyone have any more suggestions.

The methods in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com will get you straightened out in a couple of days. Ask if you need help. > I am rather against any form of negiative re-enforcement > as she is a rescue dog

Oh, not to worry about that. Our pal lying"I LOVE KOEHLER,"lynn says to leave a long line on the dog and jerk and choke it to keep a new shelter dog quiet in the crate. I’m sure she’d approve of HURTING your dog. > and was removed from a physicaly damaging enviroment.

Oh. In that case, our pal lyingdogDUMMY and freaky frantik fraud die would recommend using the shock collar on her. That’s far more humane than beating and choking a shy dog. > Thanks for any suggestions or corrections on what I am > doing.

Well I’m surprised lyingdogDUMMY didn’t just come out and tell you he’d NEED to hurt your dog MOORE than we’d like, as he did with Paul and Marty. Maybe that’s cause his lip is still healing from that nasty Carp hook Marty jigged him with. You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confronatational, scientific and psychological methods, in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com Ask yourself "WHY DOESN’T JERRY HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?" And then just answer "BECAUSE JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS WITHOUT HURTING THEM." And THEN SAY OUT LOUD: "IGNORE JERRY, HE’S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS." The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe. j;~}

Response:

mom’s Eskie "Miki" Barks more often then they would like too, but it hasn’t been too much of a annoyance. They also tell her to shush, and she will quit but has to "get the last word in" with a low volume woof. http://members.tripod.com/sacketttt/Miki.htm Miki’s page Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that >she barks at everything! > From what I’ve seen of shelties, barking is what they do. :} > I had a lot of trouble getting my Eskie to stop barking. In fact, I NEVER got > my Eskie to stop barking. I did get him to bark less, though. > If he was outside in the yard barking, I’d just take him in. If he was looking > out the window barking, I’d close the curtains. Trying to distract him from > the barking stimulus was about the best I could do. > Another thing that worked with him was to get on the floor with him, put my > arms around him and cuddle him, and say, "Shhhh" very softly right in his face. > He would eventually go from full-fledge barks to quiet "talking." > I’m sure others here have better advice. :} > Learn How to Can Spam > http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml > http://www.spamfree.org/ > WHITE HAT OF THE MONTH – Nominate At: http://www.whitehat.com/whotm/ > Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)

Response:

>> I have been working with her on her barking for about one > month now by saying in a firm voice each time she barks > quiet >That’s giving her the wrong message. You should tell her she’s a good dog >for barking. That’s her job, she’s a dog. Dogs bark because they’re SCARED. >She’s telling you there’s something to be scared of. When you tell her NO, >you’re telling her that her instincts are wrong. That tells her not to trust >your judgement. That makes her more scared.

Showing HOWE stupid you really are as far as dog behavior goes aren’t you Jerry

Response:

Well this is negative but not violent IMO so it might be acceptable to you – try squirting her with a stream of water. This usually startles the dog enough to make it cease barking so you can praise it for doing as told – sequence is ‘quiet’ and if no response to the command a spritz of water followed by a ‘good quiet’. Also shelties were bred originally to run and herd all day. I strongly suspect they seldom get the level of exercise an active herding dog might need. I’d increase exercise, provide distracting things like seriously good chew toys and encourage chewing on them (tiring and keeping the mouth full and I’d be really tempted to attend training classes with this dog. The more mental stimulation the better. Finally if the issue is the dog must be quiet or the dog is gone find a sheltie or collie person in your area to discuss the concept of debarking with. This simply moves the dog’s voice down from piercing shriek to tolerable lower tone voice. Its something best done by an expert veterinarian who does lots of these surgeries and a collie or sheltie breed should be able to both advise you on the procedure and who the top person in your area is. Its a LAST choice IMO not a first choice but it beats rehoming (or in some cases killing) the dog. Nancy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that > she barks at everything! I have had her for about 7 months (long enough > for her to relax in her new enviroment) I hoped that when she first > joined the family she would settle down but she has not. I have been > working with her on her barking for about one month now by saying in a > firm voice each time she barks quiet and when she settles down givving > her a treat and telling her good quiet, good girl. About 2/3’s of the > time she gets the treat 1/3 of the time just the good quiet with > petting. I think that the only thing that she has learned is to sit > pretty for the bisket. Does anyone have any more suggestions. I am > rather against any form of negiative re-enforcement as she is a rescue > dog and was removed from a physicaly damaging enviroment. > Thanks for any suggestions or corrections on what I am doing

Response:

> >I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that >she barks at everything! > You have your work cut out for you. > That’s ’cause she was bred to bark.

We had a discussion about names on my agility club’s e-mail list last week. We discussed "corgi" meaning "dwarf dog" in Welsh, "Viszla" meaning "seek" or "hunt" in Turkish and Hungarian, and the origin of my dogs’ names. Two explanations were put forward for "Sheltie": 1. ""Sheltie" is apparently derived from an old gaelic word meaning irritating and incessant barking…" 2." "Sheltie" is an acronym for Small Hairy Eejit Loudly Twirling In Ellipses." Sarah (Pack Leader and Mamcat) Brenin, CGC, AD, S-OAC, S-OJC, O-OGC, EJC, 1/2 EAC (formerly the Puppy From Hell) Gwydion, Purring Monitor Ornament and Wicked Cat Extraordinaire Morag, the Levitating Lurcher Landshark, NAC, O-NJC, NGC Robyn the Meezer-Brat, Inspector of Human Activity & Intrepid Door-Climber we can be seen at: http://ememories.com/pf/default.asp?PF=98A197877B92 New (and funny) pics at: http://www.ememories.com/pf/default.asp?PF=949D9283B0C2A393

Response:

> Also shelties were bred originally to run and herd all day. I strongly > suspect they seldom get the level of exercise an active herding dog might > need. I’d increase exercise, provide distracting things like seriously good > chew toys and encourage chewing on them (tiring and keeping the mouth full > and I’d be really tempted to attend training classes with this dog. The > more mental stimulation the better.

Just as a point of note: Since I’m involved in agility, I know LOTS of Shelties who get all the exercise and mental stimulation they need. Doesn’t stop them from barking- in fact, I know many who barkbarkbark their way around courses, never missing an obstacle. There are some Border Collies who do the same thing. (It’s less annoying in the Borders, though, because it’s not as shrill.<G>) The more "up in drive" they are, the more they bark. According to my agility instructor, barking/not barking is genetic; similar to hounds baying on the trail- a certain state of arousal triggers the bark.

Response:

Hello nancy, > Well this is negative but not violent IMO so it might be > acceptable to you –

You ARE a bit of a hypocrite, aren’t you. > try squirting her with a stream of water.

That’s certainly going to reward the dog for he protectiveness and instill trust and confidence in his owner. > This usually startles the dog enough

Like that shock fence you rely on? I keep telling folks here they cannot trust the judgement and advice of "trainers" who NEED to HURT, CONFRONT, or PUNISH and CONFINE dogs to train them… BYE! j;~} to make it cease barking so you can praise it for doing as told – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> sequence is ‘quiet’ and if no response to the command a spritz of water > followed by a ‘good quiet’. > Also shelties were bred originally to run and herd all day. I strongly > suspect they seldom get the level of exercise an active herding dog might > need. I’d increase exercise, provide distracting things like seriously good > chew toys and encourage chewing on them (tiring and keeping the mouth full > and I’d be really tempted to attend training classes with this dog. The > more mental stimulation the better. > Finally if the issue is the dog must be quiet or the dog is gone find a > sheltie or collie person in your area to discuss the concept of debarking > with. This simply moves the dog’s voice down from piercing shriek to > tolerable lower tone voice. Its something best done by an expert > veterinarian who does lots of these surgeries and a collie or sheltie breed > should be able to both advise you on the procedure and who the top person in > your area is. Its a LAST choice IMO not a first choice but it beats rehoming > (or in some cases killing) the dog. > Nancy > I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that > she barks at everything! I have had her for about 7 months (long enough > for her to relax in her new enviroment) I hoped that when she first > joined the family she would settle down but she has not. I have been > working with her on her barking for about one month now by saying in a > firm voice each time she barks quiet and when she settles down givving > her a treat and telling her good quiet, good girl. About 2/3’s of the > time she gets the treat 1/3 of the time just the good quiet with > petting. I think that the only thing that she has learned is to sit > pretty for the bisket. Does anyone have any more suggestions. I am > rather against any form of negiative re-enforcement as she is a rescue > dog and was removed from a physicaly damaging enviroment. > Thanks for any suggestions or corrections on what I am doing

Response:

BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Also shelties were bred originally to run and herd all day. I strongly > suspect they seldom get the level of exercise an active herding dog might > need. I’d increase exercise, provide distracting things like seriously > good > chew toys and encourage chewing on them (tiring and keeping the mouth full > and I’d be really tempted to attend training classes with this dog. > The > more mental stimulation the better. > Just as a point of note: Since I’m involved in agility, I know LOTS of > Shelties who get all the exercise and mental stimulation they need. Doesn’t > stop them from barking- in fact, I know many who barkbarkbark their way > around courses, never missing an obstacle. > There are some Border Collies who do the same thing. (It’s less > annoying in the Borders, though, because it’s not as shrill.<G>) The more > "up in drive" they are, the more they bark. According to my agility > instructor, barking/not barking is genetic; similar to hounds baying on the > trail- a certain state of arousal triggers the bark.

Response:

I too suspect its in the genes – weird IMO in sheep herders as sheep are so spooky. You never know though in a pet dog – might be lack of stimulation, exercise, socialization etc that make that individual dog a yapper. Worth a shot. IME most of the shelties and collies end up debarked when anyone has them in more than the pet type numbers. Similarly so do fox terriers and some other highly yappy breeds. Not my first choice but certainly beats killing the dog. Nancy wondering if the yappers have faster seratonin responses to barking making the yap more self rewarding faster than in other breeds….

Response:

>Doesn’t >stop them from barking- in fact, I know many who barkbarkbark >their way around courses, never missing an obstacle.

In some agility organizations (AAC for one), the judge can fault the dog for excessive barking. Not fair to some breeds IMO. — –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.

Response:

> In some agility organizations (AAC for one), the judge can fault > the dog for excessive barking. Not fair to some breeds IMO.

Definitely not! I have heard more than one story of handlers extinguishing the dog’s joy in agility along with extinguishing the bark; and I know many really *good* dogs who "talk" on course. Case in point: Debi Hutchinson’s Gage, who has just completed a Triple Triple Superior in NADAC- only ONE other dog has ever done so.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that > >she barks at everything! > You have your work cut out for you. > That’s ’cause she was bred to bark. [...] >1. ""Sheltie" is apparently derived from an old gaelic word meaning > irritating and incessant barking…" >2." "Sheltie" is an acronym for Small Hairy Eejit Loudly Twirling In >Ellipses."

HAHA! From what I’ve observed, Sarah, both are pretty much correct. :>) — Dogman http://www.i1.net/~dogman "I really dislike – thats (sic) too harsh but the best I can state it – the entire sporting group and cannot imagine being forced to live with one – not my types at all!" Nancy Holmes

Response:

>Doesn’t >stop them from barking- in fact, I know many who barkbarkbark >their way around courses, never missing an obstacle. > In some agility organizations (AAC for one), the judge can fault > the dog for excessive barking. Not fair to some breeds IMO.

At the one agility trial I’ve been to, the most competent dog was a BC who barkbarkbarked his way through the course. The only time he stopped barking was on/in/over the obstacle. He also spun a 360, barking, between every obstacle. That dog knew how to have a good time. Cate

Response:

the sheltie e-mail list is a great resource. my meg’s a rescue sheltie, too, and the list has been tremendously helpful in breed specific issues. http://sheltiehomepage.mcf.com/ is the home page for the list. http://lists.mcf.com/sheltielistpage.nclk is the page for subscribing. –nb http://ememories.com/pf/default.asp/PF=9EA49F8D7E92 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that >she barks at everything! I have had her for about 7 months (long enough >for her to relax in her new enviroment) I hoped that when she first >joined the family she would settle down but she has not. I have been >working with her on her barking for about one month now by saying in a >firm voice each time she barks quiet and when she settles down givving >her a treat and telling her good quiet, good girl. About 2/3’s of the >time she gets the treat 1/3 of the time just the good quiet with >petting. I think that the only thing that she has learned is to sit >pretty for the bisket. Does anyone have any more suggestions. I am >rather against any form of negiative re-enforcement as she is a rescue >dog and was removed from a physicaly damaging enviroment. >Thanks for any suggestions or corrections on what I am doing

Response:

> We had a discussion about names on my agility club’s e-mail list last > week. We discussed "corgi" meaning "dwarf dog" in Welsh, "Viszla" meaning > "seek" or "hunt" in Turkish and Hungarian, and the origin of my dogs’ names. > Two explanations were put forward for "Sheltie": > 1. ""Sheltie" is apparently derived from an old gaelic word meaning > irritating and incessant barking…" > 2." "Sheltie" is an acronym for Small Hairy Eejit Loudly Twirling In > Ellipses."

EVIL! Funny as hell, but clearly EVIL!! Christy with a big hairy quiet eejit who only twirls on command

Response:

Tsk, tsk, tsk. It’s not fair to INCOMPETENT TRAINERS.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Doesn’t >stop them from barking- in fact, I know many who barkbarkbark >their way around courses, never missing an obstacle. > In some agility organizations (AAC for one), the judge can fault > the dog for excessive barking. Not fair to some breeds IMO. > — > –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.

Response:

Is that why you would jerk, choke, shock, and HANG them ot quiet them?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that >> >she barks at everything! >> You have your work cut out for you. >> That’s ’cause she was bred to bark. > [...] >1. ""Sheltie" is apparently derived from an old gaelic word meaning > irritating and incessant barking…" >2." "Sheltie" is an acronym for Small Hairy Eejit Loudly Twirling In >Ellipses." > HAHA! > From what I’ve observed, Sarah, both are pretty much correct. > :>) > — > Dogman > http://www.i1.net/~dogman > "I really dislike – thats (sic) too harsh but the best I can state it – the entire > sporting group and cannot imagine being forced to live with one – not my types at all!" Nancy Holmes

Response:

That’s telling us all about the competency of our "expert" breeders, huh? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I too suspect its in the genes – weird IMO in sheep herders as sheep are so > spooky. You never know though in a pet dog – might be lack of stimulation, > exercise, socialization etc that make that individual dog a yapper. Worth a > shot. > IME most of the shelties and collies end up debarked when anyone has them in > more than the pet type numbers. Similarly so do fox terriers and some other > highly yappy breeds. > Not my first choice but certainly beats killing the dog. > Nancy > wondering if the yappers have faster seratonin responses to barking making > the yap more self rewarding faster than in other breeds…. > > Also shelties were bred originally to run and herd all day. I strongly > > suspect they seldom get the level of exercise an active herding dog > might > > need. I’d increase exercise, provide distracting things like seriously > good > > chew toys and encourage chewing on them (tiring and keeping the mouth > full > > and I’d be really tempted to attend training classes with this dog. > The > > more mental stimulation the better. > Just as a point of note: Since I’m involved in agility, I know LOTS of > Shelties who get all the exercise and mental stimulation they need. > Doesn’t > stop them from barking- in fact, I know many who barkbarkbark their way > around courses, never missing an obstacle. > There are some Border Collies who do the same thing. (It’s less > annoying in the Borders, though, because it’s not as shrill.<G>) The more > "up in drive" they are, the more they bark. According to my agility > instructor, barking/not barking is genetic; similar to hounds baying on > the > trail- a certain state of arousal triggers the bark.

Response:

BWWWWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!! You’re an IDIOT, melanie. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The remedy I read in Karen Pryor, that I thought was pretty ingenious, is > to train the dog to bark on cue, and then never give the cue. As neither > of the dogs I’ve owned have been barkers, I don’t know how effective this is. > Solo would distress bark (more like cry) to himself when I first got him, > and after nothing else worked, I resorted to the squirt gun. That did > work, but he finds squirted water to be VERY aversive. > — > Melanie Lee Chang | Repetition is the death > Departments of Anthropology and Biology | of art. > University of Pennsylvania |

Response:

thanks for the idea, but rather like your parents home short of crating her allday I don’t think that i can remove all of the stimuals in her envrioment – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My parents have a sheltie who also barks non-stop. She stares out the > window all day long, and barks at anything and everything that moves. she > also barks like this when she is outside. > I’ve been told that this is inherent in shelties, because of their herding > instinct, but I don’t know if that’s true. > My parents, who have floor to ceiling windows in their house, but some > glazed plastic at the bottom of each window at "dog level" so the dog can’t > see what’s going outside. This has quieted her down inside… > good luck, and let me know if you come up with anything better…. > : I took in a rescue sheltie. In every way she is wonderfull except that > : she barks at everything! I have had her for about 7 months (long enough > : for her to relax in her new enviroment) I hoped that when she first > : joined the family she would settle down but she has not. I have been > : working with her on her barking for about one month now by saying in a > : firm voice each time she barks quiet and when she settles down givving > : her a treat and telling her good quiet, good girl. About 2/3’s of the > : time she gets the treat 1/3 of the time just the good quiet with > : petting. I think that the only thing that she has learned is to sit > : pretty for the bisket. Does anyone have any more suggestions. I am > : rather against any form of negiative re-enforcement as she is a rescue > : dog and was removed from a physicaly damaging enviroment. > : > : Thanks for any suggestions or corrections on what I am doing > :

Response:

Category Categories: Dog Behavior | No Comments »

Akita Biting Problem.

Question:

Hi everyone, l desperately need some advise and l was hoping that you may be able to help me. l have rescued an akita from the RSPCA (Rescue). He was the only dog that was not barking, he seemed tame and took direction well, but he was also very underweight. After getting him through dietary diarrhoea and alot of dietary changes he is now filling out and has become alot stronger and his coat is looking alot better. A beautiful dog who has had some training, he sits, stays, shakes and gets out when is told to. He sometimes becomes distressed in the car and he will try to bite through his lead or harness, otherwise he will either try to bite the front seat or lick my arm for attention. He is afraid of water, even a handful, l gave him a bone and he liked it but he did not chew it. The problem is that he mouths alot and plays hard, he runs around in a circle and is totally alert, he goes balistic. Then he will stand to face you totally alert and will not move until you do but sometimes its like a hunter. l do have some understanding of working dogs and l have had some experience with big and aggressive dogs, but l was suprised by the temprement of this dog. l think he may of been beaten by a previous owner. He tends to be intimidated by men and when knows he has done something wrong, he crawls on the ground, head and ears dropped and wets himself, totally submissive. l am concerned because, he has snapped at me a couple of times (during his playful moods) and l did not do anything to provoke such a response, actually l was just standing there. Sometimes he nibbles me like dogs do at flees. Most of the time when l try to pat him, he mouths me and when l ignore him, he mouths me even more. l tell him NO and STOP very loudly but he is becoming very assertive and l need some idea on how to handle this dog. So far, l have not found anything that can help me. Lately, he has begun to bite me, even when he wags his tail?? l tell him NO, No Biting, but he only stops temporarily. He only bites me in the back yard when l go out there. When he is out on a lead, he is a different dog. l am really at a loss, l am looking for signs of danger, now that l see his aggressive tendancies but l do not know what to look for in THIS BREED. If l take him back to the RSPCA (Rescue), they will destroy him. What do you think? Any suggestions, l really would like to save this dog if Thanks Cam,

Response:

Hello Cam,

> Hi everyone,

Got to be careful around here. Our "experts" like to attempt to dominate dogs like this, and usually end up getting bit and kill them. > l desperately need some advise

That’s what they’ll play on to convince you to HURT your dog MOORE than you’d LIKE, to save him from the needle, of course. > and l was hoping that you may be able to help me.

Our Gang Of Thugs will tell you to confront, punsh, and follow the "N.I.L.I.F program." Sometimes it works. That’s their intermittent reward, that keeps our Thugs confronting and hurting dogs to enforce their "authority" over them. When you hear "trainers" talking about alpha and dominance, RUN LIKE HELL. > l have rescued an akita from the RSPCA (Rescue).

Nice dogs. > He was the only dog that was not barking, he seemed > tame and took direction well, but he was also very > underweight. After getting him through dietary diarrhoea > and alot of dietary changes he is now filling out and has > become alot stronger and his coat is looking alot better. > A beautiful dog who has had some training, he sits, stays, > shakes and gets out when is told to. He sometimes > becomes distressed in the car and he will try to bite > through his lead or harness, otherwise he will either try to > bite the front seat or lick my arm for attention.

O.K. Sounds like he’s objecting to being tied in the car. You’ll need to get him used to being tied.There’s lots of things you can do to calm him down in the car, and interrupt his anixety behavior and extinguish it. > He is afraid of water, even a handful, l gave him a bone > and he liked it but he did not chew it. > The problem is that he mouths alot and plays hard,

Don’t engage him in excitable play. Keep everything low key and pleasant. No corrections. No confrontation. No scolding. No NO. And don’t believe anyone who tells you you’re gonna back him down or use a firm hand. That will provoke him. > he runs around in a circle and is totally alert, he goes > balistic.

Let him enjoy that by himself outside if that’s acceptable to you. Break him of doing that inside using varialble sound distracton and praise techniques. > Then he will stand to face you totally alert and will not > move until you do but sometimes its like a hunter.

He’s playing. There’s a fine line between play and aggression. Don’t engage him in any excitable or excessively rough play activity. > l do have some understanding of working dogs and l > have had some experience with big and aggressive dogs, > but l was suprised by the temprement of this dog.

He’s unsure of himself. He’s trying to figure out HOWE he’s supposed to act. > l think he may of been beaten by a previous owner.

That’s probably got a lot to do with the problems you’re having with him now. > He tends to be intimidated by men and when knows he > has done something wrong,

Don’t tell him he’s done anything wrong, that’s going to confuse and challenge him someMOORE. You’ll provoke him. > he crawls on the ground, head and ears dropped and wets > himself, totally submissive.

That makes some of our dog trainers very satisfied. They "know" they’ve done a good job subordinating and dominating the cunning puppy dog. > l am concerned because, he has snapped at me a > couple of times (during his playful moods)

Right. That’s play. But there’s a fine line there. Don’t engage him in that activity. Interrupt those moments with sound distraction and praise techniques. An instant come command will break him out of that, if distraction doesn’t work. But you’ve got to follow the techniques, and it all starts with the Family Leadership Exercise, or you’ll not extinguish the behavior. That’s the one exercise that makes everything else fall into place. It’s all in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com > and l did not do anything to provoke such a response, > actually l was just standing there.

Don’t stand there. When you think he’s getting ready to start playing like that, distract and praise and follow the method to extinguish the behavior. > Sometimes he nibbles me like dogs do at flees.

That’s affection. If you don’t like it, be careful you’re not rejecting him as you change that behavior, or you’ll provoke him. Our "experts" might even consider flea biting behavoir to be dominance. Everything is dominance with them. They’re frightened of dogs, and that’s the only way they can defend retaliating on a physical level, out of fear. > Most of the time when l try to pat him, he mouths me

Mouthing is BONDING behavior. > and when l ignore him,

You reject him. > he mouths me even more.

He WANTS you to BOND with him. > l tell him NO and STOP very loudly

Yes. No wonder he’s going to go out of control. He’s barkng up the wrong tree every time he tries to make friends with you. > but he is becoming very assertive

The way I like to look at things and relationships in life is, if your not on my side, you’re against me. Don’t have to entertain someone who’s not a supporter, so he could care less about your feelings. He wants to play, PERIOD. > and l need some idea on how to handle this dog.

You’ll be told you need professional instruction because we can’t SEE the behavior here (belly laugh). You’ll given some domnance techniques and be told it’s gonna take months of daily training and and months of weekly obedience classes where you’ll be told to enforce discipline with a pronged choke collar, and to assault and punish your dog for any percieved challenges to your "authority." And if that don’t work, they’ll pass around the crying towel and tell you that you dun good, and you dun everything you could, and the dog must have come from bad breeding… and you should be glad you killed him, because he was "never quite right." > So far, l have not found anything that can help me. > Lately, he has begun to bite me, even when he wags his > tail??

That’s more play. Don’t get involved with his inappropriate play activity. Don’t challenge him. Don’t respond with an "eek" or a NO. That’ll involve you either as a peer, competitior, or PREY. > l tell him NO,

Stop that. > No Biting,

Stop threatening. > but he only stops temporarily.

Right. Because you didn’t praise him when you interrupted him, he goes back to the behavior. You’re training him incorrectly, according to the advice you’ve been given by the "experts" who’ll tell you to challenge and try to dominate him. > He only bites me in the back yard when l go out there.

Right. That’s more neutral territory than inside. He’s used to playing and roughousing there. > When he is out on a lead, he is a different dog.

Right. He’s been intimidated to conrol himself. That may be why he goes so out of control on you. It’s stressful for him to contain himself, and the pipe’s got to burst at some point. > l am really at a loss, l am looking for signs of danger, now > that l see his aggressive tendancies but l do not know > what to look for in THIS BREED.

A dog is a dog. Most of what you’ve been taught about dog behavior is quite mistaken, and compels this kind of behavior by challenging, confronting, punishing, and repressing the dog’s natural, instinctive, reflexive behaviors, instead of USING them to our advantage as Nature intended. > If l take him back to the RSPCA (Rescue), they will > destroy him.

Yes. They’re probably only slightly better than our facilities. Here, we’ve got punks like janet boss and john richardson and lying"I LOVE KOEHLER,"lynn, and cindymooron who’ll jerk the dogs around for a while to determine if they’re safe enough to adopt, or just KILL THEM TO BE FAIR. > What do you think?

I think we need to reassess our shelter and rescue folks and the information and behavior modification programs they rely on and teach us. They’re doing a miserable job, and need to be rehabilitated and retrained themselves. > Any suggestions, l really would like to save this dog if

Yes. Don’t let the Thugs convince you that you need to take a firm hand and confront this dog… Read the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com, and ask me if you need more help. > Thanks Cam,

Ask yourself "WHY DOESN’T JERRY HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?" And then just answer "BECAUSE JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS WITHOUT HURTING THEM." And THEN SAY OUT LOUD: "IGNORE JERRY, HE’S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS." You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confronatational, scientific and psychological methods, in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe. j;~}

Response:

Cam- hopefully somebody on this group will have some experience with Akitas and be able to help. It might also be worth checking out these e-mail lists: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Akita-Adopters http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AGAA http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AkitaLovers http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UK_Akitas

Response:

Hello sionnach,

> Cam- hopefully somebody on this group will have some > experience with Akitas

Because nobody here except Jerry "The PHONY," Howe knows what to do abut this. > and be able to help.

I suggest they go to Japan where the dog comes from… Or read about properly handling and training their dog from the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com > It might also be worth checking out these e-mail lists:

I’d sooner start with a trip to Japan… or read the FREE training manual at http://www.doggydoright.com But you’d rather HURT dogs than admit that JERRY is right: > Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry. > He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and > watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth! > Out of these MILLIONS, I’ve only seen 2 naive childs > come forward and actually believe in his training manual. Rober Crim writes:

I don’t see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei."…….right. >Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad. Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box first?) END OF POST Hello People, Robert Crim was a former Gang Of Thugs Member, and hated me a much as the rest of our Thugs do. Robert was a long time friend and prominent contributor to rpdb, till Jerry came along and smartened him up. He learned the hard way, and no longer posts to his former pals, because it is just too painful knowing his pals would rather HURT and KILL their dogs than to admit that JERRY is RIGHT.

Response:

Hi Cam, I rescued a seven month old akita from the Humane Society and have experienced the biting behavior you describe. Here are my thoughts and what we did. It seems akitas play rough. And being dogs, they have no way to grab things with other than their mouths. The biting/snapping/nipping/mouthing you are describing are all either play or affection. Rough as they may seem, if he were really biting out of aggression, you’d recognize a big difference. I. Mouthing From what I have experienced and read, I would definitely agree with Jerry Howe that the mouthing is "bonding" behavior. My akita only does that with me and the people she is close to. Your akita is saying, "I like you a lot. I really do. Let’s be friends for life, okay? I like being with you." You are lucky he is doing that. It’s a compliment. It’s sincere affection. Give him affection back. You have to be very careful not to hurt his self-esteem by rejecting him. Here’s what we did with our Hanna: We let her do it unless it hurt. If she misjudged the pressure and hurt us, we would let her know by saying "Ow! No biting, no biting" and then say "good girl" when she let go. The praise really made her feel good and actually made her less likely to resume the hard mouthing. It took a while for her to catch on to this, but now she understands the words "Ow" and "no biting." II. Nipping with the front teeth (like at fleas) I read up on this behavior and was surprised to learn that it is also pure affection. Again, if it hurts, and it does tend to pinch the skin, we go the "Ow, no biting" route and follow with praise when she stops. With akitas, praise goes a long ways. Sometimes she very noticeably puts more pep into her stride when I praise her as we are walking. "Hannah good girl. Hannah good girl. Hannah very good girl!" III. Snapping and biting This play behavior can be very tiresome. A couple of weeks after I got Hannah, she started wanting to play all the time. I remember lying on the couch reading, wishing the couch had hydraulic lifts that would elevate me out of her reach. She also tended to bite hard and cause a little pain. She would grow bored if I just let her bite at my limp hand and arm, so that is the tactic I took at first. But my girlfriend couldn’t take the biting at all..it hurt her. So, we read up and this is what we did: I would say "No biting, no biting." Remove my body part from her mouth and offer up a large rope chew toy for her to tug on, saying "good girl!" as she shifted her attention to something she was encouraged to chew on. If this tactic failed for my girlfriend, she would stick her fingers far into the dog’s mouth causing it discomfort, or she would pinch the very front of the lower jaw just a bit. Then, Hannah would be more interested in the rope toy being offered than her unpleasant hand and would be rewarded profusely. The gagging and pinching method was very effective, but I felt bad for the dog, who after all was just wanting to play. I would suggest it only in instances where the dog has ignored the verbal commands and the offer of a rope chew and is still hurting you. If Jerry Howe or someone else has a good alternative, try it out. If you use it, always follow up with praise when the dog starts behaving more properly. Don’t leave him feeling bad about himself (and they do) for trying to play. Again, this took a while, but now Hannah doesn’t bite much and never hard, and she stops when told. She also will sometimes carry her rope toy over to get us to play tug-o-war instead of biting us for play. I would guess that age has a lot to do with the constant playing/play biting. As your dog gets a bit older, he will probably want to do it less. Giving Hannah lots of exercise and interesting experiences outdoors (new walks and runs) made her happier and also less interested in constant play biting. Good luck, Jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone, > l desperately need some advise and l was hoping that you may be able to > help me. l have rescued an akita from the RSPCA (Rescue). He was the only > dog that was not barking, he seemed tame and took direction well, but he was > also very underweight. After getting him through dietary diarrhoea and alot > of dietary changes he is now filling out and has become alot stronger and > his coat is looking alot better. > A beautiful dog who has had some training, he sits, stays, shakes and gets > out when is told to. > He sometimes becomes distressed in the car and he will try to bite > through his lead or harness, otherwise he will either try to bite the front > seat or lick my arm for attention. He is afraid of water, even a handful, l > gave him a bone and he liked it but he did not chew it. > The problem is that he mouths alot and plays hard, he runs around in a > circle and is totally alert, he goes balistic. Then he will stand to face > you totally alert and will not move until you do but sometimes its like a > hunter. > l do have some understanding of working dogs and l have had some > experience with big and aggressive dogs, but l was suprised by the > temprement of this dog. l think he may of been beaten by a previous owner. > He tends to be intimidated by men and when knows he has done something > wrong, he crawls on the ground, head and ears dropped and wets himself, > totally submissive. > l am concerned because, he has snapped at me a couple of times (during > his playful moods) and l did not do anything to provoke such a response, > actually l was just standing there. Sometimes he nibbles me like dogs do at > flees. Most of the time when l try to pat him, he mouths me and when l > ignore him, he mouths me even more. l tell him NO and STOP very loudly but > he is becoming very assertive and l need some idea on how to handle this > dog. So far, l have not found anything that can help me. > Lately, he has begun to bite me, even when he wags his tail?? > l tell him NO, No Biting, but he only stops temporarily. > He only bites me in the back yard when l go out there. When he is out on a > lead, he is a different dog. > l am really at a loss, l am looking for signs of danger, now that l see his > aggressive tendancies but l do not know what to look for in THIS BREED. > If l take him back to the RSPCA (Rescue), they will destroy him. > What do you think? Any suggestions, l really would like to save this dog if > Thanks Cam,

Response:

Cam, If you feel you have a dominance/aggression problem, which it does NOT sound like to me, you may want to try the following (from http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/dominance.htm): Dominance aggression problems are unlikely to go away without your taking steps to resolve them. Treatment of dominance aggression problems should always be supervised by an animal behavior specialist, since dominant aggressive dogs can be potentially dangerous. The following techniques (which don’t require a physical confrontation with your dog) can help you gain some control: Spay or neuter your dog to reduce hormonal contributions to aggression. NOTE: After a mature animal has been spayed or neutered, it may take time for those hormones to clear from the system. Also, long-standing behavior patterns may continue even after the hormones or other causes no longer exist. "Nothing in Life is Free" is a safe, non-confrontational way to establish your leadership and requires your dog to work for everything he gets from you (see our handout: "Nothing in Life is Free"). Have your dog obey at least one command (such as "sit") before you pet him, give him dinner, put on his leash or throw a toy for him. If your dog doesn’t know any commands or doesn’t perform them reliably, you’ll first have to teach him, using positive reinforcement, and practice with him daily. You may need to seek professional help if your dog is not obeying each time you ask after two to three weeks of working on a command. Don’t feed your dog people food from the table and don’t allow begging. Don’t play "tug of war," wrestle or play roughly with your dog. Ignore barking and jumping up. Don’t allow your dog on the furniture or your bed, as this is a privilege reserved for leaders. If your dog growls or snaps when you try to remove him from the furniture, use a treat to lure him off. Otherwise, try to limit his access to your bed and/or furniture by using baby gates, a crate, or by closing doors. Always remember to reward good behavior. Consult your veterinarian about acupuncture, massage therapy or drug therapy. Obedience classes may be helpful in establishing a relationship between you and your dog in which you give commands and he obeys them (be sure to choose a trainer who uses positive reinforcement methods). Obedience classes alone, however, won’t necessarily prevent or reduce dominance aggression. http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/pupnip.htm

Response:

>> It might also be worth checking out these e-mail lists: >I’d sooner start with a trip to Japan… or read the FREE training manual at >http://www.doggydoright.com

Showing again just HOWE stupid you really are.

Response:

Hello People, We always hear "trainers" say to enforce commands. Don’t give a command unless you intend to follow through with it. "Reinforcement NEVER ends," (unless you know HOWE to TRAIN the dog). That’s kind of a dichotomy, I think. Doesn’t training SUPPOSED to END A PROBLEM, not mean that we’re supposed to CONSTANTLY WORRY about the behavior we’ve ALLEGEDLY trained??? WHAT GIVES, PEOPLE? We got trainer telling us to constantly correct dogs who’ve ALREADY been trained??? THAT’S NOT MY EXPECTATION OF TRAINING. The Nothing In Life Is Free method is touted as being the most effective way of dominating an obstreperous dog. The idea is to cause the dog to subordinate himself to the "AUTHORITY" of his trainer, and increase the dog’s respect for his handler. O.K. Respect and authority are separate issues from where I’m going with this. The entire concept of dominance is wrong, but we’ll put that off to another thread. What do we do, when we are putting this aggressive or out of control dog through the nilif program, and he chooses NOT to do what he’s TOLD to? Are we supposed to give a command we KNOW cannot be enforced, say for example with a dog who won’t allow us to handle him? Don’t you think you’re going to look rather silly to the dog, telling him that YOU are going through the door first, and he’s ALREADY pulling you outside? Or when you tell him to sit before feeding him his breakfast, and he’s already for a toothpick? Suppose Fido has an attitude, and you’re trying to shove some food in his head. You tell him to sit, and he doesn’t sit. So, he don’t get his dinner. No big deal, he’ll learn, RIGHT? That may mean he’s going to wait till the next meal time. When you tell him to sit before taking his breakfast, he’s ALREADY quite eager to eat, and here’s poor little YOU, telling him that he’s not going to eat till he sits. So, you put him back in his crate. The dog is going to figure this out REAL quick. Either sit, or don’t eat, RIGHT? So, next meal time, you take him to his food bowl, and tell him to sit, and he takes one look at his breakfast from two days ago, and says "uh, uh. I’m eatin, go pound sand." NOW WHAT? Next In Line Is a Fight. THAT’S THE N.I.L.I.F. PROGRAM. Someone’s gonna get HURT. Ask yourself "WHY DOESN’T JERRY HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?" And then just answer "BECAUSE JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS WITHOUT HURTING THEM." And THEN SAY OUT LOUD: "IGNORE JERRY, HE’S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS." You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confronatational, scientific and psychological methods, in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided courtesy of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cam, > If you feel you have a dominance/aggression problem, which it does NOT sound > like to me, you may want to try the following (from > http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/dominance.htm): > Dominance aggression problems are unlikely to go away without your taking > steps to resolve them. Treatment of dominance aggression problems should > always be supervised by an animal behavior specialist, since dominant > aggressive dogs can be potentially dangerous. > The following techniques (which don’t require a physical confrontation with > your dog) can help you gain some control: > Spay or neuter your dog to reduce hormonal contributions to aggression. > NOTE: After a mature animal has been spayed or neutered, it may take time > for those hormones to clear from the system. Also, long-standing behavior > patterns may continue even after the hormones or other causes no longer > exist. > "Nothing in Life is Free" is a safe, non-confrontational way to establish > your leadership and requires your dog to work for everything he gets from > you (see our handout: "Nothing in Life is Free"). Have your dog obey at > least one command (such as "sit") before you pet him, give him dinner, put > on his leash or throw a toy for him. If your dog doesn’t know any commands > or doesn’t perform them reliably, you’ll first have to teach him, using > positive reinforcement, and practice with him daily. You may need to seek > professional help if your dog is not obeying each time you ask after two to > three weeks of working on a command. > Don’t feed your dog people food from the table and don’t allow begging. > Don’t play "tug of war," wrestle or play roughly with your dog. > Ignore barking and jumping up. > Don’t allow your dog on the furniture or your bed, as this is a privilege > reserved for leaders. If your dog growls or snaps when you try to remove him > from the furniture, use a treat to lure him off. Otherwise, try to limit his > access to your bed and/or furniture by using baby gates, a crate, or by > closing doors. > Always remember to reward good behavior. > Consult your veterinarian about acupuncture, massage therapy or drug > therapy. > Obedience classes may be helpful in establishing a relationship between you > and your dog in which you give commands and he obeys them (be sure to choose > a trainer who uses positive reinforcement methods). Obedience classes alone, > however, won’t necessarily prevent or reduce dominance aggression. > http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/pupnip.htm > Hi everyone, > l desperately need some advise and l was hoping that you may be able > to > help me. l have rescued an akita from the RSPCA (Rescue). He was the > only > dog that was not barking, he seemed tame and took direction well, but he > was > also very underweight. After getting him through dietary diarrhoea and > alot > of dietary changes he is now filling out and has become alot stronger and > his coat is looking alot better. > A beautiful dog who has had some training, he sits, stays, shakes and gets > out when is told to. > He sometimes becomes distressed in the car and he will try to bite > through his lead or harness, otherwise he will either try to bite the > front > seat or lick my arm for attention. He is afraid of water, even a handful, > l > gave him a bone and he liked it but he did not chew it. > The problem is that he mouths alot and plays hard, he runs around in a > circle and is totally alert, he goes balistic. Then he will stand to > face > you totally alert and will not move until you do but sometimes its like a > hunter. > l do have some understanding of working dogs and l have had some > experience with big and aggressive dogs, but l was suprised by the > temprement of this dog. l think he may of been beaten by a previous > owner. > He tends to be intimidated by men and when knows he has done something > wrong, he crawls on the ground, head and ears dropped and wets himself, > totally submissive. > l am concerned because, he has snapped at me a couple of times (during > his playful moods) and l did not do anything to provoke such a response, > actually l was just standing there. Sometimes he nibbles me like dogs do > at > flees. Most of the time when l try to pat him, he mouths me and when l > ignore him, he mouths me even more. l tell him NO and STOP very loudly > but > he is becoming very assertive and l need some idea on how to handle this > dog. So far, l have not found anything that can help me. > Lately, he has begun to bite me, even when he wags his tail?? > l tell him NO, No Biting, but he only stops temporarily. > He only bites me in the back yard when l go out there. When he is out on > a > lead, he is a different dog. > l am really at a loss, l am looking for signs of danger, now that l see > his > aggressive tendancies but l do not know what to look for in THIS BREED. > If l take him back to the RSPCA (Rescue), they will destroy him. > What do you think? Any suggestions, l really would like to save this dog > if > Thanks Cam,

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