Question:

Marc and Michelle, I am the rescue coordinator for Pomeranian Rescue in Northern Illinois.  Which shelter did you take your Pom to?  I will call there and adopt the dog.  Breed rescue can be more tolerant of problem animals than an animal shelter woul be.  Rescue folks are usually experts on their respective breeds andcan work to rehabilitate a dog which has some quirks. I hope it has not yet been put to sleep. Please let me know.  E-mail:

Response:

>I don’t know the details of your Lhasa, and probably your decision >is the proper one.  But the tone sounds vengeful, and I guess >that’s what unsettling to me …not as much as the fact that you >euthanized it.

No,  the vengeful isn’t towards the dog.  I cried when we had it done – I said in a previous post…. it hurt doing so.  The vengeful is toward the person that told me that being that I gave the dog a second chance after he bit… that I was a bad mother.

Response:

>>I don’t know the details of your Lhasa, and probably your decision >is the proper one.  But the tone sounds vengeful, and I guess >that’s what unsettling to me …not as much as the fact that you >euthanized it. >No,  the vengeful isn’t towards the dog.  I cried when we had it done – I said >in a previous post…. it hurt doing so.  The vengeful is toward the person >that told me that being that I gave the dog a second chance after he bit… >that I was a bad mother.

The vast majority of the readers of this newsgroup loves dogs, so I think that when one has to take a dog in to be put down, that sadness and guilt HAS to be going through you.  No matter what the dog did. I didn’t read your previous post, so it appeared to me that you were almost gleeful to destroy your Lhasa.  But I’m glad to hear that isn’t true. The folks who owned the Pom had an all too common reaction of the somewhat inexperienced dog owner:  Pom nips 2-year old kid (no matter what the kid could have done to perhaps provoke the nip), parents dumps Pom at shelter, later parents feel guilty (a little late, but at least they did feel the pangs of guilt), now they asks that someone, anyone, to relieve their guilty feelings and their pocketbooks by adopting their one-time pet. I wonder where they got their Pom ?  Pet store ?  Did they do diligent research on a breed before getting their Pom ?  A 2-year old child is way too young to be properly taught how to treat a dog.  And an 8-month old puppy is awfully young too … still learning how to not mouth things.  A puppy still learning it’s boundaries on what is acceptable to do and what isn’t.  This Pom never got a second chance to learn that it’s one mistake, was for him a fatal mistake.  An 8-month old puppy is equivalent in age to a 10-year old human child.  Not much time for the Pom to learn his place. When I was 10 years old we had a Boston Terrier/Peke mix.  Poor dog was often forgotten during the course of our family growing up.  He was usually left outside or in the garage, as my dad was not a "dog" person.  He simply did not want the dog IN the house.  So the dog grew up fearful. Once while I was eating some chocolate, I gave a piece to him.  Then I remembered that chocolate was bad for dogs, so I reached into his mouth and tried to take the chocolate away.  Yup, you guessed it, he bit me good and drew blood. I told my parents, but they didn’t take him away to be put down. They simply told me  "now that was stupid!  Don’t stick you hand in his mouth and try to take his food away".   Red

Response:

>The Lhasa I spoke of…. >DEAD >Hell yes my kids come first

A year ago I read a newspaper article about how a boy was attacked and mauled by 3 dogs … two Rhodesian Ridgebacks and a German Shepherd.  Oh yes, the horror of it all … surely these dangerous curs should be killed. The next day, this boy’s friends all claimed that the he had been teasing the dogs all semester.  Poking sticks through the fence at their faces … banging at the fence every time he walked by with his baseball bat … squirting water at them …climbing a nearby tree to throw things at them.  It was like a daily routine. So one day the dogs were thrown into a frenzy and finally broke down the fence and got to their tormentor.  The dogs were released to the owner.  The bully got a life lesson.  It’s not always the dog’s fault.  Many cases were provoked by kids (yes, kids can be cruel), poor training and socializing by the owner, poor understanding of basic dog behavior by the owner, etc. Surely some dogs are psycho and should never be put into a home as a family pet.  But I think a high percentage of the dog bites within a family are caused by the human members misunderstandings, treating a dog like a stuffed animal instead of creature that feels pain too.   I don’t know the details of your Lhasa, and probably your decision is the proper one.  But the tone sounds vengeful, and I guess that’s what unsettling to me …not as much as the fact that you euthanized it. RY

Response:

<in response to:> >Maybe if she called the humane society and asked a few questions, she >wouldn’t have been in this postion.  And the reason why people are slamming >her is because we are all here for the love of dogs, of course we are going >to be mad when someone irresponsible is having her dog put to sleep. > I don’t see it as irresponsible.  She acted as any RESPONSIBLE mother would’ve.

Do you then not consider yourself as a responsible mother?  You did not take this action yourself. >  And you dog lovers out there that are mad at her for protecting her child over > her dog,  hey,  you’re great dog owners and I hope you are proud of that,  but > when you choose a dog over your child,  I wouldn’t classify you as a > responsible PARENT.

Many of us are sorry for the dog, yes.  I think she should have taken the time to find out what would happen to the dog if surrendered, and to examine the possibility of keeping the dog a few more days while finding a rescue group (the only place I’d consider sending this dog away to).  A Pom shouldn’t be that hard to isolate for the required few days.   However, if that simply wasn’t possible, it would be kinder to do what you yourself did, take full responsibility for what happens to this dog, and have it put down. What is not responsible is to surrender the dog and not mention the bite.  That would leave open the possibility of the dog being adopted into a family with children or with visiting children.  BUT, to surrender the dog with an explanation as was done in this case is almost always a death sentence.  It’s truly unfortunate that people don’t think of this when they surrender animals to the pound;  I wish there was some way to make it obvious to every person that walks through the doors of any pound, shelter, or animal control facility.  – Elizabeth B. Naime            *   Email may be forwarded and/or posted CUR 70 / FUR 212              *       * Standard Disclaimers Apply*

Response:

The Lhasa I spoke of…. DEAD Hell yes my kids come first

Response:

> Once again, judging without knowing all the facts.  Believe it > or not, not everyone can come up with $155 in nine days, not if > that person wants also to pay the rent/Con Ed/feed children/ > other immovable cost.  Financial conditions change, and until > and unless you know what the original poster’s condition is, > you have no right to make arbitrary judgments.

That’s a very real point about the financial aspect, thank you. I do think people in general need to realize, though, that surrendering an animal to a humane society, shelter, or animal control includes the possibility that the animal will be killed.  People need to realize that in particular a dog surrendered because of a bite incident is likely to be considered unadoptable. For myself, I don’t blame these people for not being able to come up with the $155 on short notice.  I do think they should have known that the dog would be most unlikely to survive being surrendered to anything other than a private rescue (and not all rescues will take a dog that’s bitten either). It may even be that surrendering the dog to the pound was the best choice.  (I doubt it, I don’t think that surrendering a dog that’s bitten to ac/pound/shelter is ever the BEST choice, but hey, I could be wrong).  Giving it up and then expecting Pom rescue to charge in and save it… well, that’s a bit much.  I hope the former owners have learned from this. — Elizabeth B. Naime            *   Email may be forwarded and/or posted CUR 70 / FUR 212              *       * Standard Disclaimers Apply*

Response:

>Yes, things can changed.  But don’t you think she could’ve atleast called >around, maybe put an ad in the paper, anything to have saved the dog’s life?

NO ONE can know the situation.  The bite could’ve been worse than was written, and she felt the child was at a risk.  As for the blame being put on the child,  you can’t claim that either.  Only the owner of that dog knows the circumstances.  THAT is why I’m saying you guys are unnecessarily slamming.  We had a Lhaso that moved into my house awhile ago.  He was WONDERFUL with the kids.  Took real well to them over ANY adult.  Well,  one night we were sitting there watching tv and my son was laying on the floor with his arm around Semper who was sleeping.  Suddenly this dog rolled over and visciously bit my son in the face for no reason.  And there is not a more gentle child with animals than my son.  We overlooked this as a fluke.  (My kids however ARE a bit older than 2 so I COULD overlook) A few mornings later I went to wake my daughter up and he was sleeping with her.  He charged across the bed and tried to bite me. Over the course of a week,  he started nipping at everyone except my one daughter that was HIS person.   Ya know what….?  He was put to sleep.  Do I feel remorse?  Yeah.  But do I feel my kids or myself are going to get bit anymore…?  No.  SOMETHING happened that caused that dog to bite unprovoked.  He wasn’t old,  and had a great history with people.  As people get neurological disorders,  so do animals.  I could’ve tried to get him another home,  but with the fact that he had personality disorders that developed in a short amount of time towards children and adults alike,  I wasn’t about to let anyone else get bit.   Slam me for it if you want,  but WE come first. >Maybe if she called the humane society and asked a few questions, she >wouldn’t have been in this postion.  And the reason why people are slamming >her is because we are all here for the love of dogs, of course we are going >to be mad when someone irresponsible is having her dog put to sleep.

I don’t see it as irresponsible.  She acted as any RESPONSIBLE mother would’ve.  And you dog lovers out there that are mad at her for protecting her child over her dog,  hey,  you’re great dog owners and I hope you are proud of that,  but when you choose a dog over your child,  I wouldn’t classify you as a responsible PARENT.

Response:

> To the person with the dog that was put down,  my > greatest sympathies,  but I’m sure that you did the best > that you could under the circumstances.  I >personally commend you for trying to correct having > taken it there.  

My sentiments completely. BridgetH1

Response:

(BekkaSue) writes: >To the person with the dog that was put down,  my greatest sympathies,  but >I’m >sure that you did the best that you could under the circumstances.  I >personally commend you for trying to correct having taken it there.  

I think that BekkaSue puts it as well as anyone can.  There are sometimes circumstances which result in things happening that for whatever reason, we can’t or are unable to control.  Why make value judgements against Marc (not me) for reaching out to the newsgroup with his experience.  As far as the Pom goes, it is an unfortunate situation, but what is done is done.  Maybe this is a learning experience. Marc Connecticut

Response:

I can’t believe the responses to the original posts. Someone puts up a post looking for advice and all you people come down on him/her like that. Shame on all of you. Chris – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

>I can’t believe the responses to the original posts. Someone puts up a post >looking for advice and all you people come down on him/her like that. Shame >on >all of you.

I’m in full agreeance.  I’m glad that half of you people out there are faultless and can do no wrong.  Ya know what?  If my dog laid teeth on my kids,  with as much as I love it,  kids come first.   Not a damn one of you know the circumstances so none of you are able to judge. Who’s to say that maybe she got the dog,  had the baby and then something went terribly wrong in her life?  maybe a death,  maybe the loss of a job?  Sure, maybe at the time that she got the dog,  $150 was affordable.  1 year after I got my dog I became a widow VERY unexpectedly.  Things changed.  How could I have forseen that?  But I’m managing.   Basically that person came to you guys for help,  and all she did was get "slammed" because she did what she thought was right at the time.  I personally came in this newsgroup for education on my animals,  I’m glad that I’m not taking any of the advice that you guys offer to each other because you’re all a bunch of self-righteous bitches. To the person with the dog that was put down,  my greatest sympathies,  but I’m sure that you did the best that you could under the circumstances.  I personally commend you for trying to correct having taken it there.  

Response:

I agree in part with Becasue. It was unfortunate that the owner did not contact a Pom rescue group first. If  she had known one existed I feel strongly that she would have. Might I add here my 2 cents worth on toy breeds and small children. Small children need to be constantly supervised when handling or playing with a dog!!!!! They can be so cruel and not have a notion that they are hurting the dog. I won’t place a toy breed in a home with small children. It is dangerous for the dog and the child.  I could tell you horror stories but I won’t. Please advise people looking for the smaller toys not to purchase  or aquire in any other fashion a small toy dog if they have very young children

Response:

Yes, things can changed.  But don’t you think she could’ve atleast called around, maybe put an ad in the paper, anything to have saved the dog’s life? Maybe if she called the humane society and asked a few questions, she wouldn’t have been in this postion.  And the reason why people are slamming her is because we are all here for the love of dogs, of course we are going to be mad when someone irresponsible is having her dog put to sleep.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I can’t believe the responses to the original posts. Someone puts up a post >looking for advice and all you people come down on him/her like that. Shame >on >all of you. >I’m in full agreeance.  I’m glad that half of you people out there are >faultless and can do no wrong.  Ya know what?  If my dog laid teeth on my kids, > with as much as I love it,  kids come first. >Not a damn one of you know the circumstances so none of you are able to judge. >Who’s to say that maybe she got the dog,  had the baby and then something went >terribly wrong in her life?  maybe a death,  maybe the loss of a job? Sure, >maybe at the time that she got the dog,  $150 was affordable.  1 year after I >got my dog I became a widow VERY unexpectedly.  Things changed.  How could I >have forseen that?  But I’m managing. >Basically that person came to you guys for help,  and all she did was get >"slammed" because she did what she thought was right at the time.  I personally >came in this newsgroup for education on my animals,  I’m glad that I’m not >taking any of the advice that you guys offer to each other because you’re all a >bunch of self-righteous bitches. >To the person with the dog that was put down,  my greatest sympathies,  but I’m >sure that you did the best that you could under the circumstances.  I >personally commend you for trying to correct having taken it there.

Response:

Once again……If she had the money for the dog (let’s see, it’s 8 months old, you get it at 8 wks. old) 6 months ago, she could’ve come up with $155. If you’re child/mother/wife/husband/father was sick and you needed $155 to go to the doctors, would you get the money???  I’m sure you would. Especially when you should feel guilt since the dog is being put to sleep because of what you did!!  I can understand her not wanting the dog if it is going to bite her child, but call around before you go dumping it at the "humane society" saying "it’s not good with children".  We all know the "humane" society isn’t always so "humane".  And maybe this story is a lesson….when you have a 2 yr. old, you are pretty busy, why buy a dog, too?  Can’t you wait until the kid gets older?  This caused a pomerian it’s life!  Was it worth it??  I don’t believe so.  So, yes, people can get $155 if they really need to.  The puppy wasn’t important enough to her, that’s the end of story!!!  And as far as knowing the whole story, I know what she told, so according to HER story, she is irresponsible and I hope her child never gets sick because she might not be able to afford to bring her to the doctor! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >PA> with….8 months before you had enough money.  And if this would’ve happene >PA> to me….I would’ve had 9 days to come up with the money, that would have >PA> been enough time for me.  I hope you were able to get the money or find a >PA> rescue by now. >Once again, judging without knowing all the facts.  Believe it >or not, not everyone can come up with $155 in nine days, not if >that person wants also to pay the rent/Con Ed/feed children/ >other immovable cost.  Financial conditions change, and until >and unless you know what the original poster’s condition is, >you have no right to make arbitrary judgments. >.. nfx v2.7 [C0000] People have all the theories;dogs have all the facts.

Response:

Well it’s the 26th and your Pom is dead .. and I hope the $155 you saved is well spent.   Shame on you !

Response:

PA> with….8 months before you had enough money.  And if this would’ve happene PA> to me….I would’ve had 9 days to come up with the money, that would have PA> been enough time for me.  I hope you were able to get the money or find a PA> rescue by now. Once again, judging without knowing all the facts.  Believe it or not, not everyone can come up with $155 in nine days, not if that person wants also to pay the rent/Con Ed/feed children/ other immovable cost.  Financial conditions change, and until and unless you know what the original poster’s condition is, you have no right to make arbitrary judgments. .. nfx v2.7 [C0000] People have all the theories;dogs have all the facts.  

Response:

I’m sorry that everyone is talking about how irresponsible you are, and I’m sure you didn’t know that your dog would be put to sleep, but before I do anything, I always call and asks questions.  You could’ve been able to prevent this from happening.  And sometimes it is not a good idea to get a dog when you have a small child.  Small children don’t always know better and could hurt the dog (very small one in this case) or the dog could hurt the child( in your case).  Then there is always the option to send the pom. to a rescue.  These people love their animals and would’ve been able to find a good home for it.  Having a baby is very expensive, and getting a puppy is expensive, too (with shots,exams,food etc.), so I can understand where you may have had a hard time to find the $155 to get your dog back.  But then maybe if you can’t afford that, you shouldn’t have gotten a dog to begin with….8 months before you had enough money.  And if this would’ve happened to me….I would’ve had 9 days to come up with the money, that would have been enough time for me.  I hope you were able to get the money or find a rescue by now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Marc, >You may feel free to contact Pom rescue in your area. BUT remember, dogs that >are sent to the shelter as owner surrenders, especially with bite histories, are >usually the first to be put down. Unfortunately, you should have thought of the >rescue group idea BEFORE you dashed off to the shelter. Unless you’re willing to >put up the money and THEN turn it over to a rescue, you’re out of luck. Also, >some rescues won’t take dogs with bite histories, especially when it involves >small children. Remember, you turned over that dog’s future to the shelter when >you signed the release form. Oh well, live and learn. >Laura > My pomeranian (exotic white parti) nipped my 2 year old daughter’s face > about a week ago.  Luckily my daughter was not seriously injured.  She did > not need stitches and has no infection and her punctures are almost healed. > I responded by sending the dog to the local humane society and putting him > up for adoption with the statement that he is not good with small children. > He is actually a great dog, very sweet and obedient.  The humane society > sent him off to Rabies Animal Control where he has been quaranteened for the > last nine days.  His quaranteen expires tomorrow (June 25th) and he will be > put to sleep on June 26th.  Rabies Animal Control will not adopt out a dog > who has bitten a human.  Rabies Animal Control said that the dog can be > released to me for a fee of $155.  If I don’t pay this fee by the 26th the > dog will be put to sleep on the 26th.  I do not have this money and I refuse > to bring the dog home as I cannot trust him any longer with my daughter. > But I do not want him put to sleep.  He is a good dog and would make a great > pet to someone with older children.  He is 8 months old, not neutered, and > has papers.  Anyone know of a rescue organization who might pay the fine and > adopt the dog?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My pomeranian (exotic white parti) nipped my 2 year old daughter’s face > about a week ago.  Luckily my daughter was not seriously injured.  She did > not need stitches and has no infection and her punctures are almost healed. > I responded by sending the dog to the local humane society and putting him > up for adoption with the statement that he is not good with small children. > He is actually a great dog, very sweet and obedient.  The humane society > sent him off to Rabies Animal Control where he has been quaranteened for the > last nine days.  His quaranteen expires tomorrow (June 25th) and he will be > put to sleep on June 26th.  Rabies Animal Control will not adopt out a dog > who has bitten a human.  Rabies Animal Control said that the dog can be > released to me for a fee of $155.  If I don’t pay this fee by the 26th the > dog will be put to sleep on the 26th.  I do not have this money and I refuse > to bring the dog home as I cannot trust him any longer with my daughter. > But I do not want him put to sleep.  He is a good dog and would make a great > pet to someone with older children.  He is 8 months old, not neutered, and > has papers.  Anyone know of a rescue organization who might pay the fine and > adopt the dog?

What was your 2-year daughter doing to provoke the Pom from nipping her ? Or did the puppy just come right out and nip her for no apparent reason ? You really don’t have $155 to spare, even on a credit card ?  You can’t borrow it from a friend of relative ?  If you don’t have $155, you must be one step from being homeless.  If you can’t afford $155, you probably can’t afford any pets in the near future.

Response:

Marc, You may feel free to contact Pom rescue in your area. BUT remember, dogs that are sent to the shelter as owner surrenders, especially with bite histories, are usually the first to be put down. Unfortunately, you should have thought of the rescue group idea BEFORE you dashed off to the shelter. Unless you’re willing to put up the money and THEN turn it over to a rescue, you’re out of luck. Also, some rescues won’t take dogs with bite histories, especially when it involves small children. Remember, you turned over that dog’s future to the shelter when you signed the release form. Oh well, live and learn. Laura – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My pomeranian (exotic white parti) nipped my 2 year old daughter’s face > about a week ago.  Luckily my daughter was not seriously injured.  She did > not need stitches and has no infection and her punctures are almost healed. > I responded by sending the dog to the local humane society and putting him > up for adoption with the statement that he is not good with small children. > He is actually a great dog, very sweet and obedient.  The humane society > sent him off to Rabies Animal Control where he has been quaranteened for the > last nine days.  His quaranteen expires tomorrow (June 25th) and he will be > put to sleep on June 26th.  Rabies Animal Control will not adopt out a dog > who has bitten a human.  Rabies Animal Control said that the dog can be > released to me for a fee of $155.  If I don’t pay this fee by the 26th the > dog will be put to sleep on the 26th.  I do not have this money and I refuse > to bring the dog home as I cannot trust him any longer with my daughter. > But I do not want him put to sleep.  He is a good dog and would make a great > pet to someone with older children.  He is 8 months old, not neutered, and > has papers.  Anyone know of a rescue organization who might pay the fine and > adopt the dog?

Response:

My pomeranian (exotic white parti) nipped my 2 year old daughter’s face about a week ago.  Luckily my daughter was not seriously injured.  She did not need stitches and has no infection and her punctures are almost healed. I responded by sending the dog to the local humane society and putting him up for adoption with the statement that he is not good with small children. He is actually a great dog, very sweet and obedient.  The humane society sent him off to Rabies Animal Control where he has been quaranteened for the last nine days.  His quaranteen expires tomorrow (June 25th) and he will be put to sleep on June 26th.  Rabies Animal Control will not adopt out a dog who has bitten a human.  Rabies Animal Control said that the dog can be released to me for a fee of $155.  If I don’t pay this fee by the 26th the dog will be put to sleep on the 26th.  I do not have this money and I refuse to bring the dog home as I cannot trust him any longer with my daughter. But I do not want him put to sleep.  He is a good dog and would make a great pet to someone with older children.  He is 8 months old, not neutered, and has papers.  Anyone know of a rescue organization who might pay the fine and adopt the dog?

Response: