Question:

FOR THE RECORD….. IT WAS A JOKE… Plops Mom

Response:

> I suppose you also think that a neutered dog won’t try to mount/penetrate > a bitch, either, huh?

There is a huge difference between mounting and actually penetrating. If a neutered male mounts either a bitch or another male, it isn’t for sex, it’s for dominance. My spayed bitch regularly mounts the foster males we take in to show that she is the alpha dog, not them. —  - Lily  Devil and the deep blue sea behind me    Vanish in the air you’ll never find me.     I will turn your face to alabaster,    Then you’ll find your servant is your master   – The Police, "Wrapped Around Your Finger"

Response:

>>It was obviously a joke — the only spayed bitch that would allow a male to >penetrate her is one that came from a taxidermy shop … or is ready to go >to a taxidermist.  There’s no accounting for some folks’ gullibility. >I suppose you also think that a neutered dog won’t try to mount/penetrate >a bitch, either, huh?

I guess I just don’t understand the "joke".  Why post a note claiming that you let your unneutered mongrel mate with "pedigreed bitches" if it’s not true? Where’s the joke in making people waste their time responding to what appears to be an appalling lack of responsibility on the part of the dog’s owner? And neutered dogs certainly CAN and DO mount or attempt to mount females, spayed or not, especially if the male has been used at stud prior to neutering. Letting a dog do this is just, well, sorry but it’s just ignorant and asking for problems with the dog later on.

Response:

> >>>>>>his is just nuts!  She’s allowing her intact mutt to go around > screwing spayed females??  Jesus, lady, get your dog neutered! Better > get him tested for brucellosis while he’s at the vet. > O.k—-before this turns ugly, I should try to defend Plop’s mom. I think > she was kidding in this post–trying to get a rise out of Bill. … she > assures it was a joke. > [snip]

It was obviously a joke — the only spayed bitch that would allow a male to penetrate her is one that came from a taxidermy shop … or is ready to go to a taxidermist.  There’s no accounting for some folks’ gullibility. -Hal, GFN

Response:

>>>>>>his is just nuts!  She’s allowing her intact mutt to go around

screwing spayed females??  Jesus, lady, get your dog neutered! Better get him tested for brucellosis while he’s at the vet.                    >>>>>>>> O.k—-before this turns ugly, I should try to defend Plop’s mom. I think she was kidding in this post–trying to get a rise out of Bill. I hate the pissing matches here too, and this did raise an eyebrow with me, but she assures it was a joke. To be fair though—Plop’s mom: If you were kidding about the whole scenario and Plop did not really "get it on", but was perhaps just playing around with mounting—-I might still say there is a problem here. You really should not ever ‘encourage’ mounting behaviour for a few reasons: Its a dominance thing—it raises the dogs in their own eyes to a superficial level and can create problem behaviours with dominance (especially if your dog is not all that dominant to begin with even) later on, and the behaviour may escalate and cause stress for you and others. 2) Just being a good ol’ responsible pet owner—If Plop likes to mount, he will do it if you let him….And when you take him places where there are other dogs at any time in his life, this will cause stress—–Many dogs do not like to be mounted (and many owners get very angry at this, rightfully so)..So Plop may cause unnecessary stress in another dog or he may get hurt in a fight when trying to mount a dominant male or female. But, if you are really allowing Plop to mate with spayed females, perhaps look into this brucellosis this woman is talking about and please—yes, get him neutered—a.s.a.p. And don’t let him do this no more:) CHeers, Cin & Sid (the king boss doberboyX, 3 yo–waiting for a sister)

Response:

> It was obviously a joke — the only spayed bitch that would allow a male to > penetrate her is one that came from a taxidermy shop … or is ready to go > to a taxidermist.  There’s no accounting for some folks’ gullibility.

No kidding! The last intact male that tried to seriously mount my spayed bitch never knew what hit him… —  - Lily  Devil and the deep blue sea behind me    Vanish in the air you’ll never find me.     I will turn your face to alabaster,    Then you’ll find your servant is your master   – The Police, "Wrapped Around Your Finger"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Mah doggie ain’t got no >litters… he had himself a safe sex experience.   Hate to know what kind of >STD’s you carry.  I gave him a package of condoms and he tucked them in his >collar.  Oh did I mention that the other dog was fixed?  THE OTHER DOG WAS >FIXED. >What on earth are you talking about? Are you even *aware* that dogs >carry STD’s and that in addition, dogs are frequenctly injured during >mating?  And then there are the behavior problems that some males can >develop after being used at stud – some become very distracted and >dominant around other dogs and become a major training challenge. >Deliberately allowing an unneutered male to repeatedly mate with a >spayed female is an extremely poor idea. >Hopefully this is just a joke (albeit NOT a very funny one, especially >because the first time you posted this you didn’t say that the females >were spayed. You bragged that he had "done pedigreed bitches").  If >this is NOT a joke, I’d suggest you knock off the personal attacks and >tirades against the people who respond to your post, and discuss this >rationally. Posting twenty off-topic hate-filled rants at day against >"Petey" and "Billy Bob", whoever they are, is a major waste of usenet >resources and also doesn’t do much for your own credibility. Let’s get >back to discussing dog-related issues.

This is just nuts!  She’s allowing her intact mutt to go around screwing spayed females??  Jesus, lady, get your dog neutered! Better get him tested for brucellosis while he’s at the vet.

Response:

X-No-Archive: Yes Organization: Disorganized in Orange County, CA >Well, actually, it’s a HUGE amount of work, which I honestly don’t >have time for. A few years ago I was mail-bombed, but his ISP ignored >my repeated pleas to stop the attacker. My ISP eventually had to put a >block on ALL incoming mail, and as a result, important email from >business clients was bounced back saying "address invalid". Meanwhile, >the mail-bomber’s ISP refused to respond, then went out of business >shortly afterward.  What a mess. In the end, I spent *hours* on "hold" >and writing complaint letters, and permanently lost five days worth of >personal and business email. Afterward, my ISP could only suggest that >I "not use my correct email address on usenet in the future". And I >never have.

IN this case, you had deficient software and an ignorant ISP.  This is what should have happened — save the first couple pieces of email for proof, and then set up your mail filter to automatically delete further mail from the mailbomber. Your ISP’s incompetence was proved by their block of all incoming mail.  That was stupid — they should have easily been able to block just that person’s mail if you didn’t have decent mail software to do so. That brings up another issue, of course, which is demanding decent software and ISP abilities.  I routinely sort and handle 200-600 p ieces of non-spam email per day.  I can only do so becasue I have intelligent mail software (which was actually written in the mid-80’s) which allows me to specify how to handle incoming email.  Demand more. It’s possible, and it’s been done before, it can be done again in other mail software. (And don’t, for doG’s sake, use a *browser* to read your email. THat’s insane, and takes you back to the dark ages in terms of handling and sorting your incoming email.  Not to mention making you vulnerable to the latest actual, real, virus, "Happy99".) –Cindy —    WAGGERY   U-CD Terrell’s Chocolate Deduction CGC CDX–Hershe   LABRADORS                       KT’s Before the Mast–Dana    *** Southern California Lab Rescue: http://www.geocities.com/~sclrr/ ***

Response:

>>Well, actually, it’s a HUGE amount of work, which I honestly don’t >have time for. A few years ago I was mail-bombed, but his ISP ignored >my repeated pleas to stop the attacker. My ISP eventually had to put a >block on ALL incoming mail, and as a result, important email from >business clients was bounced back saying "address invalid". Meanwhile, >the mail-bomber’s ISP refused to respond, then went out of business >shortly afterward.  What a mess. In the end, I spent *hours* on "hold" >and writing complaint letters, and permanently lost five days worth of >personal and business email. Afterward, my ISP could only suggest that >I "not use my correct email address on usenet in the future". And I >never have. >IN this case, you had deficient software and an ignorant ISP.  

Agreed. I’ve been shopping aroud  for a more sophisticated ISP for some time now, but living in a small town, there are few other options. >save the first couple pieces of email >for proof, and then set up your mail filter to automatically delete >further mail from the mailbomber.

Yeah, once you’ve spent 6 hours downloading it all!  Still too much of a hassle. But thanks for the input, I’ll check into the new software options. Regards, BIll

Response:

>>I agree that by making one’s email addy spam-free, one does lose out >on some good advice. But one also avoids a ton of time-wasting spam >and also avoids being mail-bombed and harassed by people who don’t >like one’s opinion. For instance, one angry fellow even posted "turn >your email on Baseball billy and we will personaly attack you through >it".  See what I mean? >Do you have any idea of how many accounts I’ve had shut down for doing >exactly this to me?  You are not powerless if you get hate email, mail >bombs, etc.  You can trace back to the ISP and demand that they enforce >their terms of service.  If the individual owns their domain address, >you can take the complaint up to the ISP that hosts their address.  Yes, >it’s more work than mangling your address.

Well, actually, it’s a HUGE amount of work, which I honestly don’t have time for. A few years ago I was mail-bombed, but his ISP ignored my repeated pleas to stop the attacker. My ISP eventually had to put a block on ALL incoming mail, and as a result, important email from business clients was bounced back saying "address invalid". Meanwhile, the mail-bomber’s ISP refused to respond, then went out of business shortly afterward.  What a mess. In the end, I spent *hours* on "hold" and writing complaint letters, and permanently lost five days worth of personal and business email. Afterward, my ISP could only suggest that I "not use my correct email address on usenet in the future". And I never have. I understand and respect your position, but please try to see the other side, where people have been *forced* by spam and mail-bombing to obfuscate their email address. In any case, we’re getting off-topic for the dog groups. Hope you continue to post your very helpful dog-realted FAQs and nice talking with you. Regards, Bill

Response:

Hey baseball Billy, Petey Penis, whoever you are. Weren’t you the one complaining that noone should post anything that is not dog related on these groups? What did you just do. You just posted a complaint.  >Then, it was almost always some X-rated porn line that I really enjoyed but got into trouble for, or >get-rich quick scheme.  Until ISP’s start taking spam seriously, >people have no choice

Michael

Response:

>What on earth are you talking about? Are you even *aware* that dogs

AH!  So you admit you can’t follow a thread.  It’s about time…. >Deliberately allowing an unneutered male to repeatedly mate with a >spayed female is an extremely poor idea.

Not as poor as letting you mate, fella. >Hopefully this is just a joke (albeit NOT a very funny one, especially

SINCE YOUR SENSE OF HUMOR WAS SURGICALLY REMOVED AFTER A PIT BULL ACCIDENT >because the first time you posted this you didn’t say that the females >were spayed. You bragged that he had "done pedigreed bitches").  If

no I said he’d done more than you had… HAHAHAHAH  I’m still laughing too >this is NOT a joke, I’d suggest you knock off the personal attacks and >tirades against the people who respond to your post, and discuss this

Why don’t you be a true gentleman and show me how?  Since all your posts but one have been retorts and rebuttals, and lotsa folks can’t stand ya, help yourself.  I’ll follow  your lead.  You’d suggest a lot of strange things, anyway. >rationally. Posting twenty off-topic hate-filled rants at day against >"Petey" and "Billy Bob", whoever they are, is a major waste of usenet

Why yer Billy Bob hon… >resources and also doesn’t do much for your own credibility. Let’s get >back to discussing dog-related issues.

I have yet to see you post ONE dog related issue, just rebuttals and retorts to others. Happy VD honey….. oh that stands for Valentines Day, not an STD…… Plops Mom

Response:

>That’s assuming you think it actually works. I have seen little evidence >that it does.  The only way it would is if you do not put your own >address ANYWHERE in the messaeg.  And then you won’t get any private >email responses at all.

True, but people who *want* private responses often say so, adding "email me" somewhere in their post. Many people object to having people respond privately to their *public* posts. Alternatively, one can set up a mydejanews account if they *want* private responses. >I think I usually have productive things to add.  And I find the >practice of mangling email addresses EXTREMELY irritating.   >So I find mangled headers an extremely impolite thing to do.  *shrug*. >And believe me, becasue I post well over 100 >faqs every month with my actual email address on them, I get an >unbelievable amount of spam even when I’m not personally posting to >usenet.

Yes, your FAQ’s  are invaluable on the newsgroups. It is a shame that some people can’t benefit from your advice because they’ve mangled their email addy. I agree that by making one’s email addy spam-free, one does lose out on some good advice. But one also avoids a ton of time-wasting spam and also avoids being mail-bombed and harassed by people who don’t like one’s opinion. For instance, one angry fellow even posted "turn your email on Baseball billy and we will personaly attack you through it".  See what I mean? I think the bottom line is that until our ISPs start taking spam seriously and making a committment to protect their paying customers from it, people will continue to do what they have to do to avoid spam.  And you’re right, there is a price.

Response:

>man, i get real tired of this "but it’s not even a real email >address!!!" nonsense. wtf does that have to do with anything? i’ve >been on the internet for 9 years. i used to post my real email address >on usenet. as a result i had to kill of that address because of spam. >whether someone chooses to reveal their real email address to complete >strangers is really not important when deciding whether their advice >is relevant. >i have no truck with the stuff you were talking about re: training >your dog and the other stuff in your posts, but regarding your >ignorant excuse for declaring someone else’s posts/opinions null and >void because you’re unable to firebomb them or they don’t want to >receive 10 emails a day for the world’s most inexpensive golf balls… >please, grow up.

No kidding! What I detest is the sneaky little spams I used to get (before I went spam-free), that had subjects like ""Oh, forgot to tell you", or "hi" or other such misleading ones designed to make you open the mail. Then, it was almost always some stupid X-rated porn line or get-rich quick scheme.  Until ISP’s start taking spam seriously, people have no choice but to protect themselves with mangled email addresses on usenet. People who rant and rave about "fake email addresses" and "trolls" usually have nothing productive to add to the discussion anyway. And if they can’t see that "homerun at bat.com" is clearly, obviously spam-free, then you gotta wonder, huh?  One silly woman has even spent hours complaining to Bat.Com! I guess if I changed it to LOL!

Response:

>Mah doggie ain’t got no >litters… he had himself a safe sex experience.   Hate to know what kind of >STD’s you carry.  I gave him a package of condoms and he tucked them in his >collar.  Oh did I mention that the other dog was fixed?  THE OTHER DOG WAS >FIXED.

What on earth are you talking about? Are you even *aware* that dogs carry STD’s and that in addition, dogs are frequenctly injured during mating?  And then there are the behavior problems that some males can develop after being used at stud – some become very distracted and dominant around other dogs and become a major training challenge. Deliberately allowing an unneutered male to repeatedly mate with a spayed female is an extremely poor idea. Hopefully this is just a joke (albeit NOT a very funny one, especially because the first time you posted this you didn’t say that the females were spayed. You bragged that he had "done pedigreed bitches").  If this is NOT a joke, I’d suggest you knock off the personal attacks and tirades against the people who respond to your post, and discuss this rationally. Posting twenty off-topic hate-filled rants at day against "Petey" and "Billy Bob", whoever they are, is a major waste of usenet resources and also doesn’t do much for your own credibility. Let’s get back to discussing dog-related issues. Regards, Bill

Response:

man, i get real tired of this "but it’s not even a real email address!!!" nonsense. wtf does that have to do with anything? i’ve been on the internet for 9 years. i used to post my real email address on usenet. as a result i had to kill of that address because of spam. whether someone chooses to reveal their real email address to complete strangers is really not important when deciding whether their advice is relevant. i have no truck with the stuff you were talking about re: training your dog and the other stuff in your posts, but regarding your ignorant excuse for declaring someone else’s posts/opinions null and void because you’re unable to firebomb them or they don’t want to receive 10 emails a day for the world’s most inexpensive golf balls… please, grow up. L. >I would be happy to offer some expertise…. >TO USE THE USENET NEWSGROUPS PROPERLY, AND FOLLOW USENET CODE, ONE SHOULD >ALWAYS POST THEIR ACTUAL EMAIL ADDRESS.  THE PEOPLE AT BAT.COM DON’T NEED YOUR >SPAM HITTING THEIR SERVERS

Lincoln Stewart Alien Tomato http://www.alientomato.com

Response:

Yo Billy Bob, Where you all come from… they starts a breedin at 13 so I reckon yer family tree must be gettin kinda long thar boy.  Mah doggie ain’t got no litters… he had himself a safe sex experience.   Hate to know what kind of STD’s you carry.  I gave him a package of condoms and he tucked them in his collar.  Oh did I mention that the other dog was fixed?  THE OTHER DOG WAS FIXED. TROJAN MAN!!!!!!  HAHAHAHAHAHH Plops Mom

Response:

Oh thank GOD someone else sees through his miserable disguise! OldDog, yer a breath of fresh air.  This Billy Bob is a real dick head, and he’s driving most of us right off the newsgroup.  I noticed the same thing you did…. all the advice in the world but no credentials.  Not even a good story.  Nothing but sheer criticism.  A real fine example…

Response:

I would be happy to offer some expertise…. TO USE THE USENET NEWSGROUPS PROPERLY, AND FOLLOW USENET CODE, ONE SHOULD ALWAYS POST THEIR ACTUAL EMAIL ADDRESS.  THE PEOPLE AT BAT.COM DON’T NEED YOUR SPAM HITTING THEIR SERVERS

Response:

and leave the breeding and giving training >advice to the experts. >Regards, >Bill

Response:

> Heavens, every >guys should sow his wild oats before getting his grapes plucked

Sigh.  It’s ignorant beliefs like this one that is a MAJOR cause of pet overpopulation.  Same thing with people who believe the idiotic myth that every bitch should have one litter before being spayed. Sigh. Can anyone here on the groups provide some educational material for this woman?

Response:

>>>>>>I have cross-posted this to rec.pets.dogs.breeds for you so you may

be able to benefit from the advice of the many respected dog breeders about what responsible breeding is all about.  Also, (and please don’t get all upset and percieve this as a personal attack, since it isn’t) I sent a copy to the rescue board so that the rescuers can get some insight into the thought processes of folks who breed without perhaps knowing the consequences.>>>>>> How impudent. This seems like the act of the kid in grade school who would offer to clean the blackboard after class and get beaten up alot. CHeers, Cin & Sid (the king boss doberboyX, 3 yo–waiting for a sister)

Response:

>Again, Ms. Samples, this is a forum for discussing dog behavior, not >for posting personal attacks and tirades. What do satellite dishes and >welfare recipients in West Virginia have to do with dog behavior?

     This from someone who rolls into r.p.d.et.al and first thing posts personal attacks and tirades.    SSO peteyBoy where’s that hard Data and Stats backing your position on the APBT AND where’s your PROOF or the accusations you aimed directly at me personally?   Yup folks " Billy grifford" is none other than the infamous Infi-Net Troll masquerading under yet another alias hacked through a bug in Infi-Net. Run the headers down yourself and see.

Response:

>You can stop flaming and harrassing me any time now.  The welfare rolls >would go down considerably if you and your household would stop using the >satellite dish and get jobs.  Is this your livlihood?

Again, Ms. Samples, this is a forum for discussing dog behavior, not for posting personal attacks and tirades. What do satellite dishes and welfare recipients in West Virginia have to do with dog behavior? >Our really screwed up puppy is doing quite well.  He has flown more places >than Gomer and Goober will see in a lifetime, and done more pedigreed >bitches than you ever will.

Are you saying you are a dog breeder? According to your recent posts your mixed breed dog (you stated that he was part Newfie, part black lab, part  border collie) is only a year old (still technically a puppy).  But according to your statement above, you have already studded this puppy out to numerous "pedigreed bitches".  NO reputable breeder would allow a purebred bitch to mate with a mixed breed!  With the Greenbrier County shelter (like shelters all over the world) already overflowing with unwanted mixed breeds, it’s very disheartening to read in your post that you are proudly studding out your mixed-breed puppy. I have cross-posted this to rec.pets.dogs.breeds for you so you may be able to benefit from the advice of the many respected dog breeders about what responsible breeding is all about.  Also, (and please don’t get all upset and percieve this as a personal attack, since it isn’t) I sent a copy to the rescue board so that the rescuers can get some insight into the thought processes of folks who breed without perhaps knowing the consequences. Good luck with Plop and please, neuter him,  love him for the great dog he undoubtedly is and leave the breeding and giving training advice to the experts. Regards, Bill

Response: