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Call me a bad person! A little ditty about Jeff and Diddy

admin — Tue, 17 Sep 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi Michael, I have the biggest grin on my face! Thanks so much, I was doing my accounting, and decided to take a dare and see what this board was going after today. Your words are eloquent and enlightening. Yes, we love the coyotes, but they are mean and sneaky things. Don’t play fair bitch from a ranch, hmmmmmmmm. Surround a bobcat in it’s den and tease it to death, hmmmmmmmmm. Much of this is for fun you know, they have no real interest in the bobcat, as it is out of their league usually. Until the bobcat has been antagonized a few times, (aka, awakened), it has no clue how to face down these predators. When it does, the dogs scramble, though trying to keep face at times by pretending to chase it away. They do lose interest soon. Thanks for the understanding about the cookoo stuff, hard to follow sometimes……happy paws to you. Lynn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi Lynn, > This is Michael, your world famous ceo of dogtv.com > networks. I’m a very important man and the individual behind > the CHANGING of the MUZZLE of dog training. What is > happening to you right now (aka, your awakening), is a > direct result of my efforts and even MOOREso of the efforts > of the director of research at Biosound Scientific, yes the > one and only World Famous Jerry Howe out of Orlando F-L-A. > So far, I have no beef with you, and I was only giving my > CUCKOO!!! KUCKOOOOO!!! > DING DING DING!!! > CUCKOO!!! KUCKOOOOO!!! > to our pal Josh, who accused you of being Jerry in drag. Our > "experts" can’t believe anyone actually uses or has success > with Jerry’s methods, so it is in their vested interest that > people such as yourself not actually exist, or, if you do > exist, that you exist as Jerry himself, posting in drag. > But since you do, in fact, exist, and our experts can’t > accept it, that’s why they are all therefore going: > CUCKOO!!! KUCKOOOOO!!! > DING DING DING!!! > CUCKOO!!! KUCKOOOOO!!! > because there’s MOORE and MOORE of your types showing up. > It’s all part of the CHANGING of the MUZZLE which our > "experts" are fighting tooth and nail. They cannot stop it > though. The CHANGES I’m implementing are as UNOPPOSABLE as > they are inevitable and IRREVERSIBLE. > You a fan of coyotes and kats? > here’s a little ditty about Jeff and Diddy, Two american > kids growin’ up in the heartland. > WORLD PREMIERE > http://dogtv.com/imagine.mp3 > O.K., I can tell this is a lost subject. You cut up the information > and twist it so bad, for heavens sake it was a discussion. Some of you > are so hard up to attack, you don’t HEAR yourselves agreeing with me. > Then post how your dog beat up another. You have no idea who you are > talking to. So once again, hello, have business, successful, am not > perfect, study dog behavior as a way of living, train dogs and horses, > whoops, no one has attacked that yet, study herd behavior also. Am > over 40 and have about 26 years invested in this. Do any of you ever > get out of the house to expand your views? (Like the one I have right > off my deck which has spot lights to pick up night behavior, and the > infra-red to not distract the wild life, which means I do not have to > take another trip to study as you suggest), lets not go into the creek > which surrounds us and we can follow the seasonal flow of dogs. If > anyone is interested in animal behavior and sharing without snippy > remarks, I would enjoy the talk. > Lynn > > > > I have read all the posts about how bad Jerry HOWE is. But I make > > > > decisions for myself. I am always, as a kennel owner, looking to > > > > improve and pick up new ideas to further helping our customers with > > > > their anxiety laden pets. Due to the equine training we do, Jerry’s > > > > methods caught my eye. NO PRESSURE. > > > > I am sorry to say, that I needed some help re-thinking how Jerry > > > > > > Hiya Jerry. Glad to see you finally went with the sex change op. Hope the > > > estrogen takes a little of the wind out of your sails. > > KUCKOOOOOOO!!!

Response:

Hi Lynn, This is Michael, your world famous ceo of dogtv.com networks. I’m a very important man and the individual behind the CHANGING of the MUZZLE of dog training. What is happening to you right now (aka, your awakening), is a direct result of my efforts and even MOOREso of the efforts of the director of research at Biosound Scientific, yes the one and only World Famous Jerry Howe out of Orlando F-L-A. So far, I have no beef with you, and I was only giving my CUCKOO!!! KUCKOOOOO!!! DING DING DING!!! CUCKOO!!! KUCKOOOOO!!! to our pal Josh, who accused you of being Jerry in drag. Our "experts" can’t believe anyone actually uses or has success with Jerry’s methods, so it is in their vested interest that people such as yourself not actually exist, or, if you do exist, that you exist as Jerry himself, posting in drag. But since you do, in fact, exist, and our experts can’t accept it, that’s why they are all therefore going: CUCKOO!!! KUCKOOOOO!!! DING DING DING!!! CUCKOO!!! KUCKOOOOO!!! because there’s MOORE and MOORE of your types showing up. It’s all part of the CHANGING of the MUZZLE which our "experts" are fighting tooth and nail. They cannot stop it though. The CHANGES I’m implementing are as UNOPPOSABLE as they are inevitable and IRREVERSIBLE. You a fan of coyotes and kats? here’s a little ditty about Jeff and Diddy, Two american kids growin’ up in the heartland. WORLD PREMIERE http://dogtv.com/imagine.mp3 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > O.K., I can tell this is a lost subject. You cut up the information > and twist it so bad, for heavens sake it was a discussion. Some of you > are so hard up to attack, you don’t HEAR yourselves agreeing with me. > Then post how your dog beat up another. You have no idea who you are > talking to. So once again, hello, have business, successful, am not > perfect, study dog behavior as a way of living, train dogs and horses, > whoops, no one has attacked that yet, study herd behavior also. Am > over 40 and have about 26 years invested in this. Do any of you ever > get out of the house to expand your views? (Like the one I have right > off my deck which has spot lights to pick up night behavior, and the > infra-red to not distract the wild life, which means I do not have to > take another trip to study as you suggest), lets not go into the creek > which surrounds us and we can follow the seasonal flow of dogs. If > anyone is interested in animal behavior and sharing without snippy > remarks, I would enjoy the talk. > Lynn > > > I have read all the posts about how bad Jerry HOWE is. But I make > > > decisions for myself. I am always, as a kennel owner, looking to > > > improve and pick up new ideas to further helping our customers with > > > their anxiety laden pets. Due to the equine training we do, Jerry’s > > > methods caught my eye. NO PRESSURE. > > > I am sorry to say, that I needed some help re-thinking how Jerry > > > > Hiya Jerry. Glad to see you finally went with the sex change op. Hope the > > estrogen takes a little of the wind out of your sails. > KUCKOOOOOOO!!!

– this is michael reporting live… from the new muzzle of dog training http://dogtv.com http://changethemuzzle.com

Response:

– this is michael reporting live… from the new muzzle of dog training http://dogtv.com http://changethemuzzle.com

Response:

– this is michael reporting live… from the new muzzle of dog training http://dogtv.com http://changethemuzzle.com

Response:

Shock Collar too strong? – Or Is The Gate Too Wide?

admin — Sun, 07 Jul 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

You disabled your "kats" via tendonectomy for convenience. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON SENSE AND > COURTESY. > Telling him so isn’t going to help, I’m afraid (it’s been tried, a lot). > Jerry is, to all appearances, crazy. He’s also a spammer; he wants to > crosspost because he’s trying to peddle a crackpot gizmo. > (I’m actually amazed he manages to crosspost… usually he can only spell > it "kats.") > — > Karen J. Cravens > followups set to rpdb

– this is michael reporting live… from the new muzzle of dog training http://dogtv.com http://changethemuzzle.com

Response:

> STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON SENSE AND

COURTESY. Here’s the information you need. There’s more FREE behavior information to condition/extinguish all kat behavior problems for FREE in you FREE copy of your FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com Ask me if you need any additional behavior advice. All animal behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING. That means we can cure them IF you know HOWE. My machine even cures diareaha in newly rescued feral kats and cures territorial aggression in kats and birds too. Like it or not, we got something good happening and our animal lovers don’t LIKE it cause it also means they’re causing their own behavior problems through their repressive force methods and they don’t want to lay off correcting behaviors instead of simply extinguishing them using non force methods. If your veterinary behaviorist tells you my machine or methods are bunk, ask them what they do to their patients they can’t cure? Jerry don’t have students he can’t cure cause Jerry never had the option of killin pets he couldn’t train, he HAD TO figure out HOWE to skin a kat rather than kill it to be fair. Yours, Jerry. BIOSOUND Scientific Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too) The Little Black Box That Cures Animal’s Annoying Habits Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding my Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too) device. We had been out of stock but are now shipping immediately. There are special rebates available for humane societies, rescue organizations, and anyone working with rescue regardless of affiliation with a bona-fide shelter organization. INDEED, I DO make EXTRAORDINARY claims regarding my Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too) machine, and I BACK IT UP with my UNCONDITIONAL 100% money back SATISFACTION GUARANTEE FOREVER, including paid return shipping and two year full, free repair/replace warranty. Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too) costs $99.95 plus $7.50 S&H total $107.45 in US (other countries shipping varies). Shipping at this time will be immediate. You can order on our secure order page on the net at http://www.doggydoright.com, by phone at 1888BIOSOUND, or US Post. Visa, MasterCard, personal and electronic checks are accepted. Prices including shipping will increase 25% July 15, 2002 but rest assured, my 100% money back satisfaction guarantee with paid return shipping will NEVER change. Your animal’s happiness and your satisfaction are paramount to me. I’ve specialized in temperament and behavior problems for forty years and share my knowledge freely. Just ask me if you have ANY animal behavior questions or would like the latest edition of my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual. Do not confuse the DDR machine with my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual, they are two separate entities. Their only commonality is they each validate the other. They both employ non force scientific and psychological techniques I’ve developed and relied on over my forty years specializing in animal temperament and behavior problems in mostly giant breed and protection trained dogs. The DDR requires NO study or special knowledge or ability to use. If your veterinarian or behaviorist have questions about my BIOSOUND Scientific technology or any of my training advice I’ll be happy to talk to them. I’m available on my toll free 1-888-BIOSOUND phone line 24/7. Pick up the phone and call me right now to speak to the inventor and trainer. My BIOSOUND Scientific Integrator T. M. Doggy Do Right, is a high-frequency psycho acoustic behavior modification device, a copyright sound program, in some regards like a Zen meditation or Gregorian Chant. BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology is based on proven scientific and psychological principles (state conditioned learning, the Frequency Following Response to facilitate brain wave entrainment, Pavlovian conditioning and de-conditioning, Neuro Linguistic Programming techniques like matching, pacing, anchoring, and flooding, the Relaxation Response (Dr. Benson), and accelerated learning techniques similar to those of Dr. Lozanov and the Tomatis effect. Doggy Do Right employs complex waveforms that dogs cannot resist listening to, and people cannot hear. Doggy Do Rights’ soothing signals match and pace and are soon matched and paced by the parasympathetic nervous system, entraining the brain to follow the waveforms. Within three minutes, most dogs will begin to yawn, perhaps take some water and come to a sit, due to the stimulation of endorphins. BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology changes behavior by stimulating information brain waveforms on the cerebral cortex, hollographically. Relaxation, entrainment, and the release of brain hormones override a situation or stimulus previously producing anxiety. In other words we condition new, good information brain wave patterns in association with stressors. Subsequent introduction of such a conditioned stimulus causes the memory of those stressors to be flooded out with new, good information about a given stimulus. Since single brain neurons can not be inhibited and excited at the same time, by flooding the brain with a calming agent, be it narcotic, electric, or as in the case of BIOSOUND, sonic, causes the inhibiting neuro transmitters such as endorphins to be locked into receptor sites. This prevents or blocks out the effects of excitatory transmitters which the limbic system is producing in reaction to anxiety producing external stimuli, such as thunder, car sickness, separation anxiety, aggression, etc. Given the correlation between personality patterns and functional brain wave states, it would reason that to alter brain wave patterns would facilitate the ability to allow more variations and changes in cognitive states and behavioral responses at the neuronal level. To simplify; we persuade our subject to listen to Doggy Do Right (flip the switch), and fall into an extremely relaxed state (wait 2-5 min.). Present the stimulus, such as thunder, doorbell, etc. BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology constantly reassures the subject that every thing is O.K., and through conditioning, the stimulus is associated with calm acceptance. Because the brain wants to reflex to its most successful state, further simulation will consequently stimulate thoughts of calm and well being, thus overriding or flooding the stimulus, which would normally institute a fight or flight reaction.

Response:

You’re a liar and a dog abuser… Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue, Animal Commissioner Brevard Co FL, writes: Hi Jerry, I received email from Mark Shaw on 10/6 which I just read today. Sorry I didn’t have time to get to it sooner. We have had a lot going on in our area concerning animals. We formed a new Task Force to address spay/neuter, pet overpopulation and animal abuse. I needed to do a lot of research before the first meeting and time was just not available for anything else. Anyway the letter went on to say that we are in collusion, I tried to defraud him, and have sent none of the materials that he has asked for although he has yet to furnish the P. O. Box number that he wanted them sent to in the first place. He goes on to state that I am no longer eligible for the "fictions reward." All of this is in answer to postings that prove I was "sharing" his email with you which in his opinion was a breach of good manners. His email only had terms and conditions of the reward which I would consider "public information." Be that as it may, I would like to state that you had my permission to post any email I have sent you regarding DDR including this email. I’m very sorry that you have to put up with this type of situation from someone that obviously never intended to make good on his reward offer in the first place. I had a call from a friend of mine with a very aggressive cat. I have loaned her my DDR for a few weeks to see if it will calm JR down. I will let you know the results. She goes to the same holistic vet that I go to and he is also interested. In case Mark does post to the list again I would like to say that I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it has helped my dogs and cats. I have entirely too much to do, to worry about his opinions or reward. The only reason I was willing to apply for the reward was on your behalf as I do think your product is a valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior problems. I am in Feral Cat Network (we spay and neuter approximately 100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club, president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat club, assistant County manager, head of animal control, director of two different shelters, etc.) and Space Coast Feline Network http://www.spacecoastfelinenetwork.com I listed these not to be on an ego trip but to let Mark know that I am involved with animals and have very little time to play games with him also I would not recommend your product if I did not believe in it. Please feel free to post this email as it has no copyright on it as did Mark Shaw’s last email to me. Take care Jerry and don’t let the Mark’s of the world get you down. Elaine Thank you, Elaine. I have been trying to educate the mark’s of this world, with some occasional successes. I guess that’s variable reinforcement? Yours, Jerry. Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue, Animal Commissioner Brevard Co FL, writes: Sep 9, 2000 "I ordered from Jerry a long time ago.. He was helpful and the order was filled promptly. Yes, Doggie Do Right does indeed exist. I "had" a very aggressive female Pit.. She was showing aggression not only towards Dok, Rhodesian Ridgeback, but our cats and even us. She now plays with Dok, even to the point of allowing him to take a toy or bone from her. She no longer shows any aggression towards us. She is showing some aggression towards the cats but that is down to a warning growl. It is not just my opinion that all this aggression existed before Doggie Do Right as we were advised by three vets to euthanize her. I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior problems. I am in Feral CatNetwork (we spay and neuter approximately 100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club, president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat club, assistant County manager, head of animal control, director of two different shelters, etc.) and Space Coast Feline Network http://www.spacecoastfelinenetwork.com Thanks, Elaine, Subj: Fear of Thunder To: Witsenddog Dear Jerry, I hope you’ll be able to post this message so more people who are at their wit’s end will be able to help their dogs. To review: Our puppy was uncomfortable during thunder storms. At the beginning of the problem, she paced restlessly from room to room. She couldn’t settle and sleep. From there the problem grew. She would run to the far southeast corner of the house (which makes sense because most storms here come from the northwest) and she’d cower in the corner of the couch and shake. !st attempt to help her: I’d pick her up, brush and massage her (call me a nut – I’ve sung to her when I’ve done her daily brushing since she was tiny so of course I sang too) and when she relaxed, I’d put her in her crate. She then slept and I thought the problem was solved. Traumatic event: We were out in the park playing with one of her doggy friends when it began to rain. On the way home, there was the loudest, longest, thunder clap I’ve ever heard. From that day on, the problem got worse and worse. I couldn’t calm her with singing and massage. The fear spread. She wouldn’t go out if it was raining. No thunder, just gently summer rain, and she wouldn’t go out. The solution: I surfed the net and came across a free manual Wit’s End Dog Training Method and a product called Doggy Do Right that seemed better than anything else I came across. A phone call to Jerry Howe, author of the manual and Director of Research, Biosound Scientific, convince me to try both the manual and the product. Problem solved: I followed Jerry’s suggestions (more phone calls – he is most generous with his time and advice). The first two thunder storms my puppy was restless but not running around in a blind panic. The third storm, she barked her deep, stranger danger bark after each clap of thunder. The fourth storm, she seemed uneasy at first. Soon she was asleep at my feet and she napped through the rest of the storm. A miracle. I am endlessly grateful to Jerry for his manual and his machine. A word about Doggy Do Right. It is odd to buy a machine that emits a sound I cannot hear. I took the chance because Jerry offered a full refund including shipping. Though I heard nothing, my puppy clearly did. When I first turned on the machine, she got the cutest, most quizzical look on her face. She looked at me as if to say: "What’s that? I never heard that before." She looks at the machine when it is on. She rests on the floor beneath it. It is obvious from her behavior that she is aware of its cycles. Amazing. Thank you Jerry. Hi Jerry, I wrote to you a week or so ago about the unit. I have since borrowed one from Elaine Mc Clung. She speaks very highly of it. So, I brought it home and plugged it in. Of course, I wanted it to come on, all the barking stop, and have every one immediately fall to the floor in little comas for a few hours. Well, after I got all 27 of them to be quiet, still no comas. But, it had only been 36 seconds at that point. So, I gave it a little longer. Still no comas. Was this really going to work? I mean, I do have an unusual situation. So, by bedtime, a few hours later. I started to notice just how many were asleep already – with their feet in the air! I started to have hope. During the night, all was calm. In the morning when I got up, only a few of them WALKED quietly to the door to go out. Not the usual evacuation. I had the unit from Sunday afternoon until Tuesday Morning. I was certainly pleased with the night effect. I wasn’t so sure about the amount of the day time effect. Until I took it back. Within half an hour, the monsters had resurfaced. I wondered if I could break into Elaine’s house and if she would notice I know another person who does dog rescue. She rescues Beagles. She has 23 in an 1100 square foot house. God bless her. She is interested to see if it will work for her. I also spoke to someone else who does cat rescue, and she is interested. The cat rescue people have monthly meetings. Maybe Elaine could give a word or two about it. So, if there are any words of advice you can send my way about the best way to use it in my case, I would appreciate it. I of course wanted to keep it on the highest setting, but don’t know if that is advised, even with my situation of so many new ones coming and (too few) going. Also, how I and others can go about getting one, etc. I think the vets should have the info in their offices. It must help dogs with separation anxiety. My vet practices homeopathic as well as traditional medicine, so I would think it would be right up her alley. Thank you. Desiree

Response:

> STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON SENSE AND > COURTESY.

Telling him so isn’t going to help, I’m afraid (it’s been tried, a lot). Jerry is, to all appearances, crazy. He’s also a spammer; he wants to crosspost because he’s trying to peddle a crackpot gizmo. (I’m actually amazed he manages to crosspost… usually he can only spell it "kats.") — Karen J. Cravens followups set to rpdb

Response:

Kelly wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior: > STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON > SENSE AND COURTESY.

Yelling won’t stop Jerry Howe, so shut off the caps. Killfile the guy, most of us have. And please don’t repost his entire message – he’s been killfiled for a reason. [followups] — –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.

Response:

Not hurting animals is common sense and courtesy and human decency. Tell your pals to stop using fear force and aversives and killin animals as a cure and learn HOWE to handle and train their pets so they don’t got to mutilate hurt and kill them to control behavior problems our animal lovers CAUSE. Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON SENSE AND COURTESY. > HOWEDY Disciple chad, > > On 06 Jun 2002, Jerry Howe opined: > > > HOWEDY chad, > > > If you don’t have anything to contribute to our dog behavior forum I > > > suggest you’ll be MOORE comfortable over at the mensa or kibo groups. > And you continue to avoid the truth… > > > We’re trying to improve ourselves, so don’t stick around where you’ll > > > be uncomfortable and feel embarrassed. Good LUCK in all your > > > endeavors. Dog training doesn’t rely on LUCK, so adios… muchacha. > > > Jerry. > > ROTFL! Jerry asking someone else to leave the newsgroup! > Ask? Jerry doesn’t ask. Jerry teaches, and Jerry’s students > will demonstrate, and no one will ASK NUTHIN, Disciple Chad. > > BAAAAWAWAWAJA. He has me laughing in spanish. > That’s part of The SYNDROME, Disciple Chad. > > Sounds like you’re a bit stressed at my presence, Jerry. > You and your ilk have been my bread and butter for 40 years, > Disciple Chad. I stress over you no MOORE than my toast… > butter or not. > > I think I’m doing just fine "contributing" to the newsgroup, > You have embraced lies and deception, Disciple Chad. > I cautioned you about honesty and credibility in my Camp. > > thank you very much. > But you failed to listen. > > Is this your best response to your gaffed attempt > > at posting as someone else. > You call Jerry a liar, Disciple Chad? That’s a sorry thing > to do, Disciple Chad. The archives will prove my words > to be true and consistant as the sunrise, Disciple Chad. > OTHERWISE THE METHOD WOULD FAIL. > > BTW: Go read Matthew 7:3. > I did. Matthew talks of blindness. > > Best, > > Chad > Athough blind, I have a pearl. If I drop it, I can stumble > around till I find it. You cannot begin to look for it even > knowing it’s there, because you have a speck in your > eye which taunts you with your sightedness. > You are so preoccupied with the speck in your eye > you cannot afford to stumble to begin to find the pearl… > > Chad Andrew Herring > > University of Chicago Divinity School > > Theological Ethics Program > > Oak Park, IL > Nor even read Matthew 7:6, who warns: > "Do not give dogs what is sacred, do not throw your > pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under > their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." > We are fighting for SURVIVAL. > Matthew 7.7-8 adds: "Ask and it will be given to you, > seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be > opened." > I recommend you live by Matthew 7.13-14: > "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the > gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, > and many enter through it. But small is the gate > and narrow the road that leads to life, and only > few find it." > One of us is a liar, Disciple Chad. One of us must go… > and take his coven of evil doers with him to suffer The > SYNDROME together, alone. > Who are the liars and HOWE COME they’re here, > Disciple Chad? I’m obviously sellin somethin, so that > makes me suspect and probably a con man. My claims > are sweeping and unreasonable and illogical. > Or do you fear hate and attempt to tear Jerry to pieces > cause Jerry TEACHES something which HURTS your > fragile defective EGO? > Dog and child behavior problems are caused by mishandling > and abuse, because THAT is your HUMAN NATURE. > One of us must die.

Response:

STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON SENSE AND COURTESY. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> HOWEDY Disciple chad, > On 06 Jun 2002, Jerry Howe opined: > > HOWEDY chad, > > If you don’t have anything to contribute to our dog behavior forum I > > suggest you’ll be MOORE comfortable over at the mensa or kibo groups. > And you continue to avoid the truth… > > We’re trying to improve ourselves, so don’t stick around where you’ll > > be uncomfortable and feel embarrassed. Good LUCK in all your > > endeavors. Dog training doesn’t rely on LUCK, so adios… muchacha. > > Jerry. > ROTFL! Jerry asking someone else to leave the newsgroup! > Ask? Jerry doesn’t ask. Jerry teaches, and Jerry’s students > will demonstrate, and no one will ASK NUTHIN, Disciple Chad. > BAAAAWAWAWAJA. He has me laughing in spanish. > That’s part of The SYNDROME, Disciple Chad. > Sounds like you’re a bit stressed at my presence, Jerry. > You and your ilk have been my bread and butter for 40 years, > Disciple Chad. I stress over you no MOORE than my toast… > butter or not. > I think I’m doing just fine "contributing" to the newsgroup, > You have embraced lies and deception, Disciple Chad. > I cautioned you about honesty and credibility in my Camp. > thank you very much. > But you failed to listen. > Is this your best response to your gaffed attempt > at posting as someone else. > You call Jerry a liar, Disciple Chad? That’s a sorry thing > to do, Disciple Chad. The archives will prove my words > to be true and consistant as the sunrise, Disciple Chad. > OTHERWISE THE METHOD WOULD FAIL. > BTW: Go read Matthew 7:3. > I did. Matthew talks of blindness. > Best, > Chad > Athough blind, I have a pearl. If I drop it, I can stumble > around till I find it. You cannot begin to look for it even > knowing it’s there, because you have a speck in your > eye which taunts you with your sightedness. > You are so preoccupied with the speck in your eye > you cannot afford to stumble to begin to find the pearl… > Chad Andrew Herring > University of Chicago Divinity School > Theological Ethics Program > Oak Park, IL > Nor even read Matthew 7:6, who warns: > "Do not give dogs what is sacred, do not throw your > pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under > their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." > We are fighting for SURVIVAL. > Matthew 7.7-8 adds: "Ask and it will be given to you, > seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be > opened." > I recommend you live by Matthew 7.13-14: > "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the > gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, > and many enter through it. But small is the gate > and narrow the road that leads to life, and only > few find it." > One of us is a liar, Disciple Chad. One of us must go… > and take his coven of evil doers with him to suffer The > SYNDROME together, alone. > Who are the liars and HOWE COME they’re here, > Disciple Chad? I’m obviously sellin somethin, so that > makes me suspect and probably a con man. My claims > are sweeping and unreasonable and illogical. > Or do you fear hate and attempt to tear Jerry to pieces > cause Jerry TEACHES something which HURTS your > fragile defective EGO? > Dog and child behavior problems are caused by mishandling > and abuse, because THAT is your HUMAN NATURE. > One of us must die.

Response:

HOWEDY Disciple chad, > On 06 Jun 2002, Jerry Howe opined: > HOWEDY chad, > If you don’t have anything to contribute to our dog behavior forum I > suggest you’ll be MOORE comfortable over at the mensa or kibo groups.

And you continue to avoid the truth… > We’re trying to improve ourselves, so don’t stick around where you’ll > be uncomfortable and feel embarrassed. Good LUCK in all your > endeavors. Dog training doesn’t rely on LUCK, so adios… muchacha. > Jerry. > ROTFL! Jerry asking someone else to leave the newsgroup!

Ask? Jerry doesn’t ask. Jerry teaches, and Jerry’s students will demonstrate, and no one will ASK NUTHIN, Disciple Chad. > BAAAAWAWAWAJA. He has me laughing in spanish.

That’s part of The SYNDROME, Disciple Chad. > Sounds like you’re a bit stressed at my presence, Jerry.

You and your ilk have been my bread and butter for 40 years, Disciple Chad. I stress over you no MOORE than my toast… butter or not. > I think I’m doing just fine "contributing" to the newsgroup,

You have embraced lies and deception, Disciple Chad. I cautioned you about honesty and credibility in my Camp. > thank you very much.

But you failed to listen. > Is this your best response to your gaffed attempt > at posting as someone else.

You call Jerry a liar, Disciple Chad? That’s a sorry thing to do, Disciple Chad. The archives will prove my words to be true and consistant as the sunrise, Disciple Chad. OTHERWISE THE METHOD WOULD FAIL. > BTW: Go read Matthew 7:3.

I did. Matthew talks of blindness. > Best, > Chad

Athough blind, I have a pearl. If I drop it, I can stumble around till I find it. You cannot begin to look for it even knowing it’s there, because you have a speck in your eye which taunts you with your sightedness. You are so preoccupied with the speck in your eye you cannot afford to stumble to begin to find the pearl… > Chad Andrew Herring > University of Chicago Divinity School > Theological Ethics Program > Oak Park, IL

Nor even read Matthew 7:6, who warns: "Do not give dogs what is sacred, do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces." We are fighting for SURVIVAL. Matthew 7.7-8 adds: "Ask and it will be given to you, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened." I recommend you live by Matthew 7.13-14: "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only few find it." One of us is a liar, Disciple Chad. One of us must go… and take his coven of evil doers with him to suffer The SYNDROME together, alone. Who are the liars and HOWE COME they’re here, Disciple Chad? I’m obviously sellin somethin, so that makes me suspect and probably a con man. My claims are sweeping and unreasonable and illogical. Or do you fear hate and attempt to tear Jerry to pieces cause Jerry TEACHES something which HURTS your fragile defective EGO? Dog and child behavior problems are caused by mishandling and abuse, because THAT is your HUMAN NATURE. One of us must die.

Response:

– this is michael reporting live… from the new muzzle of dog training http://dogtv.com http://changethemuzzle.com

Response:

> STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON SENSE AND

Response:

Response:

> STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON SENSE AND > COURTESY.

Response:

Kelly wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior: > STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON > SENSE AND COURTESY.

Response:

Ask? Jerry doesn’t ask. Jerry teaches, and Jerry’s students will demonstrate, and no one will ASK NUTHIN, Disciple Chad. > BAAAAWAWAWAJA. He has me laughing in spanish.

That’s part of The SYNDROME, Disciple Chad. > Sounds like you’re a bit stressed at my presence, Jerry.

You and your ilk have been my bread and butter for 40 years, Disciple Chad. I stress over you no MOORE than my toast… butter or not. > I think I’m doing just fine "contributing" to the newsgroup,

You have embraced lies and deception, Disciple Chad. I cautioned you about honesty and credibility in my Camp. > thank you very much.

But you failed to listen. > Is this your best response to your gaffed attempt > at posting as someone else.

I did. Matthew talks of blindness. > Best, > Chad

Response:

– this is michael reporting live… from the new muzzle of dog training http://dogtv.com http://changethemuzzle.com

Response:

> STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON SENSE AND

Response:

Response:

> STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON SENSE AND > COURTESY.

Response:

Kelly wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior: > STOP CROSSPOSTING TO CAT NEWSGROUPS PLEASE, IT’S COMMON > SENSE AND COURTESY.

Response:

Ask? Jerry doesn’t ask. Jerry teaches, and Jerry’s students will demonstrate, and no one will ASK NUTHIN, Disciple Chad. > BAAAAWAWAWAJA. He has me laughing in spanish.

That’s part of The SYNDROME, Disciple Chad. > Sounds like you’re a bit stressed at my presence, Jerry.

You and your ilk have been my bread and butter for 40 years, Disciple Chad. I stress over you no MOORE than my toast… butter or not. > I think I’m doing just fine "contributing" to the newsgroup,

You have embraced lies and deception, Disciple Chad. I cautioned you about honesty and credibility in my Camp. > thank you very much.

But you failed to listen. > Is this your best response to your gaffed attempt > at posting as someone else.

I did. Matthew talks of blindness. > Best, > Chad

Response:

After Looking At The Flame War Going On Here And Only Getting Suggestions From One Source (Jerry), Am I To Assume His Is The Recommended Method? Either "Put Up Or Shut Up"

admin — Wed, 14 Nov 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Yeah, just look Howe some contributors are treated. Especially the ones that MEAN well…

Response:

> The funny thing about this group is that I am witnessing more human behavior > than dog behavior issues. > It really is a shame that one must waste so much time and energy weeding > through all the crap that is getting posted here.

Welcome to Usenet. Attempt no landings here. > Especially since some think they need to include the entire thread in their > reply.

Eh? The entire thread? But if people were doing that, wouldn’t the newsgroup disappear in a Black Hole of Infinite Recursion? Don’t step on the Event Horizon! It’s bad luck! > Is is possible to keep your ‘opinions’ to yourself?

No, it is physically impossible for me to keep my opinions to myself. If I tried to do that, my brane would explode, and Harlan would have to clean it up and install a spare. And he always gets my brane full of dog hair when he does that. Do you have any idea how much that itches? > Can we not have a newsgroup where people post > information without bashing someone else?

Probably not, in all of Usenet. Maybe when Happynet takes effect. Hold on to the dream. > If you disagree with a posting, keep it to yourself.

No. >If you really disagree, would it not be more ‘professional’ > to just post your advice without slamming someone else’s ?

I’m not particularly interested in being a professional Usenet poster. The pay’s lousy. Although, I can’t remember the last time I "slammed someone’s advice". Mostly I just make fun of the way people dress, in addition to their deeply held beliefs and traditional customs. Hmm. Maybe I should just make fun of their traditional costumes, to streamline the process. > You don’t need to argue who has the best methods.

It’s not a question of need. It’s a question of preference. Of want. Of DESIRE, OH BABY, YES LIKE THAT (I mean, this is the Internet, after all). > If you believe yours is the best, than post the info and leave it up to the > individuals to decide.

I don’t have any advice to post, most times. I’m in charge of the Critical Thinking Brigade. For sufficiently loosly-defined values of "in charge". > If you are that confident that what you advise is > effective, you will not feel the need to argue it.

Again, not a question of need. The whole point of playing in a discussion group is, well, discussion. And making fun of people’s deeply held traditional costumers. > Is name calling and flaming beneficial to the whole group ?

It works for me. That’s the only part of the group I’m particularly concerned with. What are you, some kind of Commie? > Whether you are a touch free trainer or jerk and pull trainer

What if you are none of the above? What then? > the mission > here is to post information for people to make decisions as to what advice > to follow NOT WHOSE advice to follow.

Oh, dear, you’ve been misinformed. There is no particular mission here. Everyone sort of pick their own mission. Some people are here to sell questionable products. Some are here on behalf of plankton. Some girls just want to have fun. >It is to discuss dog behavior not to argue.

Discuss and argue are not mutually exclusive terms. Unless and until Kibo sez otherwise. > It is always good to hear both sides.

Unless the other side sucks. Then it’s BAD. >I personally don’t believe in > using physical methods since I trained elephants and believe me you can’t > FORCE an elephant to sit and you don’t want to risk 10,000 lbs being mad at > you.

Hey, the mission here is to discuss DOGS, not ELEPHANTS. Elephants are STRICTLY OFF-TOPIC. Unless they also happen to be antiques. >But dare I try to convert those of you that don’t believe in my > methods. No.

Do I dare try to convert you to kibology? Ha. Trick question; you’re already a kibologist, whether you know it or not. >I will only offer advice based on my experience and beliefs.

I will only offer advice based on the teaching of Kibo, and what I remember from on the back of the cereal box at breakfast. And if I woke up too late to enjoy a nutritious breakfast, then who the hell knows what I’m going to post? Not me. > I will ask questions to hear other peoples thoughts on a situation.

I will ask people to shut the heck up and listen to ME ME ME ME ME. Personally, I wish you other bozos wouldn’t post here, but what can I do? > I will > always maintain an open mind as would any good dog trainer.

Not as open as my minds. I have several to chose from, and can install different points of view at random. I’m very Plug-and-Play. Top THAT. > How many of you are members of the APPDT ?

Hardly anyone, I betcha. I betcha a whole jar of candy corn. Also, they don’t let my kind join. Stuck-ups. Not that I’d be caught dead belonging to any club that would have me as a member. >The code of ethics clearing > states that you are not to ‘bad mouth’ anyone.

In my religion, if we don’t bad mouth anyone, the Demon Beable will sic his black helicopters on us, and make us eat candy corn. > ‘Professional’ dog trainers behave in a professional manner.

Aha! I’m an amatuer, so it’s perfectly acceptable for me to behave in an amatuerish manner. LA LA LA I’m not professional. LA LA LA LA. Of course, if you wanted to pay me to post here, I would consider posting in a professional manner. (Note: I did not specify what sort of professional.) > Grow up people

Give me a break! I’m only FIVE!!!1!! > and stop wasting other people’s time.

Tsk, tsk, wasting time on Usenet. Whatever is the world coming to? > If you have something valuable to add, post it to the group otherwise keep > it private.

No problem. Everything I post is incredibly valuable. –Terri & Harlan (and yet, we still do not charge for our posts — how’s that for a bargain?) P.S. I didn’t think the post I was replying to was very valuable. Could be please retroactively post it privately?

Response:

>> Can we not have a newsgroup where people post > information without bashing someone else? >Wouldn’t that be a nice twist of events. A newsgroup >that was actually impartial to personalities and such >and just exchanged dog information and ideas.

Now that’s interesting: Dog Information and ideas. Well, I never knew a dog that had any information or ideas worth exchanging. This is my whole complaint against dogs. You can’t get it into their retarded heads that if they do something bad, that they’ll pay for it. That’s why the threat of incarcerartion works so well, among youngsters. They don’t want to go to jail, to get fucked. OK? So, the vast majority will never get into trouble, and not only that, but they’ll rarely turn on their parents. Dogs, on the other hand can’t really be trained, and will turn on their owners. It sickens me how so many people think that they can be, especially owners of pit bulls. But here’s an idea or two: Keep dogs inside, always attached to something. Let’s not bash each other. Just the dogs. Kim If you really love your filthy animal, get them butt-flavored dog food. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Gwen

Response:

Hello nancy,

> "Linda" was born with a gift of laughter, and a sense that the world was mad. >of it: > The funny thing about this group is that I am witnessing more human > behavior than dog behavior issues. > And engaging in it.

That so? >It really is a shame that one must waste so much time and energy weeding >through all the crap that is getting posted here.

That’s what our "experts" do to avoid facing facts. > Filters.

You bums can’t hide the pubic from INFORMATION. >Especially since some think they need to include the entire thread in their >reply. > That’d be howe. Filters.

That’d be cause the issues are complex. We’ve stumbled into a conspiracy of lying, dog abusing Thugs, koehler and shock and pronged spiked pinch choke collar fanciers who’ll do and say anything to defend their alleged right to hurt and kill dogs they’re afraid of. >Is is possible to keep your ‘opinions’ to yourself? (This is NOT directed at >any one individual)

Our "experts" FEAR INFORMATION. That’s what this is all about. > FOAD.

That’s HOWE they deal with information. > BTW, you’re crossposting this to more than just a behavior > group. Talk about rude! To take out your ire on a mess of > newsgroups, because you dislike the behavior of a few participants > in *one* newsgroup … and emulating the behavior in the process?

No problem. Seems our OP is a professional animal trainer, and sounds like she’s seeing some INCONSISTANCIES about what’s going on here… > Do you know how to spell "hypocrite"?

Spellin AGAIN? NOPE. Not me. I’m a dog trainer. I don’t do arithmjeatik grandma and speling. >If you have something valuable to add, post it to the group otherwise keep >it private.

Don’t you think it’s relevant to realize the dog lovers who are giving us INFORMATION like to HURT dogs to train them??? > Fans of irony, take note. Linda, next time you have a beef > with the behavior of one or two people, e-mail those people > with your complaints. Whining to five newsgroups about this > thing is about as stupid a behavior as I can imagine.

You’re afraid of EXPOSURE. > Now GO LAY DOWN! NO COOKIE!

Jerry don’t use no freakin cookies. > gekko (the Lizard)

This is some pretty incredible stuff. First we got our pal nancy defending hanging dogs, and then we’ve got our "expert" lying frosty dahl saying she’d never hit a dog and teaching us HOWE to beat them and pinch their ears into spikes on their collars between the brass of a shot shell: Here’s a couple quotes from our dog abusing lying Thug pals: Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior, alt.pets.dogs.pitbull, alt.pets.dogs.labrador hey, RPDB, do APDL a favor. When that nitwitted ass-sucking jizz-licking fartbreathed piece of maggot meat howe obnoxiously crossposts to alt.pets.dogs.labradors with his insipid yatter-brained lying snot-loaded pusilanimous whackweed-induced pile of nonsense, would y’all mind snipping APDL out of your followups? or, at least, tag your followups with (ninnyboy) or (HOWE) or something? thanks a bunch! [followups set to RPDB] — nancy Search Result 8 annoying habits? (ninnyboy) Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.labrador View: Complete Thread (8 articles) | Original Format *quote* me, you ass-siphoning twat. when you sign my name to your posts, you’re stealing my copyrighted material. make sure you put *proper* quote marks around it (yours are not), or use standard Usenet citation markings. now go shake your thang elsewhere. we talk labs here, not lies, not false, unverifiable claims, not flames, not regurgitated posts from other newsgroups that prove what a lying fuck you are. when you can sanely talk labs, feel free to join in. > chased the bright, elusive butterfly of love in message >

Response:

> > The funny thing about this group is that I am witnessing more human behavior > than dog behavior issues.

At least until the canine version of ViaVoice is released and babelfish is revised. > It really is a shame that one must waste so much time and energy weeding > through all the crap that is getting posted here. > Welcome to Usenet. Attempt no landings here. > Especially since some think they need to include the entire thread in their > reply. > Eh? The entire thread? But if people were doing that, wouldn’t the > newsgroup disappear in a Black Hole of Infinite Recursion? > Don’t step on the Event Horizon! It’s bad luck! > Is is possible to keep your ‘opinions’ to yourself?

Not on a dog behavior group. Unless doG above has come down and spoken from a burning bush without telling me about it (which would never happen — the not telling me part, not the burning bush speaking part), all you *can* have on a dog behavior group is opinions. Well, that and anectodes about observations, but then people bitch about that being off topic since they don’t want to hear what you think are cutesie doggie stories that they think are insipid doggie doo. [snip the rest of the post, thread, group, dog chatter as a concession] So any ideas on how to make the dog behavior groups anything but humans talking about their behavior and opinions? Actually, it would be a major improvement just to keep the human behavior and opinions to anything remotely resembling something useful to an actual dog owner and/or trainer and not completely insane or at least insanely stupid, from what I’ve seen, but, hey, maybe that’s just me. (Howe ya doin’ Jerry and friends?)

Response:

aaaaannnnnndddd your cross posting variations in opinions is a good thing, if you really disagree with one persons opinions, *and for the sake of fair play, read several post by that individual to various subjects to get an idea of their ideology as opposed to their ‘bad day rant’* and click them off… kill file is there for a reason… Its not information thats posted here as much as support, ideas, new thoughts and old ones that we forget about sometimes. AND there are stories and available information here too… sometimes theres even a GOOD link concerning a spam… *rarely but it happens*… ng… read the faq available on the ng…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The funny thing about this group is that I am witnessing more human behavior > than dog behavior issues. > It really is a shame that one must waste so much time and energy weeding > through all the crap that is getting posted here. > Especially since some think they need to include the entire thread in their > reply. > Is is possible to keep your ‘opinions’ to yourself? (This is NOT directed at > any one individual) > Can we not have a newsgroup where people post > information without bashing someone else? > If you disagree with a posting, keep it to yourself. If you really disagree, > would it not be more ‘professional’ to just post your advice without > slamming someone else’s ? You don’t need to argue who has the best methods. > If you believe yours is the best, than post the info and leave it up to the > individuals to decide. If you are that confident that what you advise is > effective, you will not feel the need to argue it. > Is name calling and flaming beneficial to the whole group ? > Whether you are a touch free trainer or jerk and pull trainer the mission > here is to post information for people to make decisions as to what advice > to follow NOT WHOSE advice to follow.It is to discuss dog behavior not to > argue. It is always good to hear both sides. I personally don’t believe in > using physical methods since I trained elephants and believe me you can’t > FORCE an elephant to sit and you don’t want to risk 10,000 lbs being mad at > you. But dare I try to convert those of you that don’t believe in my > methods. No. I will only offer advice based on my experience and beliefs. > I will ask questions to hear other peoples thoughts on a situation. I will > always maintain an open mind as would any good dog trainer. > How many of you are members of the APPDT ? The code of ethics clearing > states that you are not to ‘bad mouth’ anyone. > ‘Professional’ dog trainers behave in a professional manner. Grow up people > and stop wasting other people’s time. > If you have something valuable to add, post it to the group otherwise keep > it private.

Response:

> Its not information thats posted here as much as support, ideas, new > thoughts and old ones that we forget about sometimes.

Really? You tell us to hurt our dogs to train them. > AND there are stories and available information here too…

We have storied of vicious, dead dogs. > sometimes theres even a GOOD link > concerning a spam… *rarely but it happens*…

Spam? Good links about spam? I’m interesed in dogs, not spam links. > ng… read the faq available on the ng…

Now there’s a vicious site. That’s a koehler trainer, cindymooreon. She’s been banned from two training clubs because she’s a sadist. HOWE does koehler KNOW the dog don’t think he’s coming back to beat him every twenty minutes for the same mistake, just because you’re mad at him, instead of just TRAINING him??? Tell us HOWE the dog knows he shouldn’t be barking? That is, until the beatings take effect, after ENOUGH lessons of "hard spankings of long duration??? It’s IN THE BOOK. Tell us HOWE COME you think dogs might want to take a big chunk out of an abusive Thug who beats him every twenty minutes for crappin on the floor in a room you’ve restricted him to for this purpose, and then tied him next to a forced accident? And when koehler OCCASIONALLY finds a dog who objects to his training, why does he HANG the dog, instead of calming them down and teaching them there’s nothing to be afraid of??? Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider: "If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these "backsliders" will think they’re winning and will continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he’s made so you can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish him again for the same thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.) HOWE does koehler KNOW the dog don’t think he’s coming back to beat him every twenty minutes for the same mistake, just because you’re mad at him, instead of just TRAINING him??? See what I mean? You can’t justify that. "Read koehler for content" marquis de shaw, IDIOT, Sadist, rpdb regular. "I LOVE KOHELER" lyinglynn, IDIOT, pathological liar, noted dog abuser. Koehler On Correcting The Barking Dog Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you’ve conveniently placed, and descend on him. He’ll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or, if he’s a big dog, until you’ve snubbed him up with a hitch on something (ceiling hook, rafters, tree limb, door, or even over your shoulder, if you know HOWE. j.h.) While he’s held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs. Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it’s the bitter end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat performances that will be necessary. When you’re finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the area again." Tell us HOWE the dog knows he shouldn’t be barking? That is, until the beatings take effect, after ENOUGH lessons of "hard spankings of long duration??? It’s IN THE BOOK. Tell us HOWE COME you think dogs might want to take a big chunk out of an abusive Thug who beats him every twenty minutes for crappin on the floor in a room you’ve restricted him to for this purpose, and then tied him next to a forced accident? And when koehler OCCASIONALLY finds a dog who objects to his training, why does he HANG the dog, instead of calming them down and teaching them there’s nothing to be afraid of??? That’s the ONLY question ANYONE of you CAN answer. The answer is OBVIOUS. koehler trainers are DOG ABUSING COWARDS HOWE MUCH brains does it take to beat a dog every twenty minutes for the same mistake you’ve tied it next to??? But I might like shooting them with a sling shot or BB gun better, you know, to teach the dog to WANT to stay at home. IT’S IN THE BOOK. Ask PROFESSOR DERMER to tell us HOWE the dog understands koehler coming back every twenty minutes to punish him again for the same mistake he’s tied him up next to, to housetrain him??? Go ahead and ASK HIM. The dirty COWARD won’t talk to me about it. He won’t talk to Marilyn about it, and he can’t say SHE’S been INCIVIL WITH HIM. We know HOWE SENSITIVE our koehler trainers are… > lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver: > For barking in the crate – leave the leash on and > pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it. > When he barks, use the line for a correction.

ninnyboy DIDN’T tell you about. Decide for yourself (long) Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior View complete thread Customer reviews of The Koehler Method Of Dog Training Old Fashioned? No Way! The answer to the question "Where Will A koehler Trainer Find A Man’s Leather Belt?" is found in the koehler text. ANSWER: "When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to the place of his error, and hold his head close enough so that he associates his error with the punishment. Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper. It is important to your future relationship that you do not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him." Real MEN don’t BEAT dogs to train them, so you can use a hickory switch as lying frosty dahl prefers… BWWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe. j;~}

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is is possible to keep your ‘opinions’ to yourself? (This is NOT directed at > any one individual) > Grow up people > and stop wasting other people’s time. > If you have something valuable to add, post it to the group otherwise keep > it private. > Sorry Usenet Cop….this is an unmoderated forum…what we think is > what we say and that means everyone….wise men, loons, saints and > assholes, all. And while I’m on the subject, why was this cross posted > to all and sundry? Trying to stir up a little flame war, were we? > Instead of lecuring us on what a newsgroup should be, why don’t you go > train a dog and stop wasting other people’s time. > Cheers, > Lois E

Hello lying lois, You were second to earn the lying title here. Your former pal Robert sends his regards, as does steve walker and tara reminds you to stock up on Cheddar and lysol and anchovie. Robert says his LIVE dog Rollie is enjoying his DDR…so’s some of his friends he bought one for. Cheers! j;~} Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs since I freely admit to having read and, I hope, understood enough of the manual and it’s counterparts by John Fisher and the posts of Marylin Rammell to believe and use it. This naive child would like to say thank you to both Jerry and Marylin for putting up with a constant barrage of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly adult dog lovers. The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the nagging idea that if people like them had been posting earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp. To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake names are more honest than people that use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have studied and lived by their craft for decades. "Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing that people like Jerry Howe and Marylin Rammell are going to just go away because you people act like fools. Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I don’t really care. > admit to buying and having success with his little black > box.

I think I’m going to get one myself for Father’s day and take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and testing. You would never believe the results, so you’ll never know. > Anyone by now that doesn’t see a scam man coming by > Jerry’s posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming to > him! LOL!

I don’t see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei."…….right. >Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad. Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box first?)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jerry has taken the time to help me out off the NG. I have a very > loud cockatoo who has been having problems adjusting to my 8 > month old son. > Joey is learning to walk. He likes to use Buddy’s cage as a hold on > for dear life object. > Buddy wasn’t exposed to toddlers prior to Joey.. my oder two boys went > through this stage in a different house where Buddy had his own room > and the boys had only visits, not daily contact 24/7. > Buddy has always been spooked by "tiny" humans. Joey has been driving > him nuts! He showed his disapproval by non-stop screaming. A > cockatoo scream can be heard a block away with all the widows shut > being in the house it makes your ears pop and your nerves crawl. > Jerry sent me Free his DDR. He sent instructions on how to use it. > He answered my questions quite politely. > I have been using the DDR in my kitchen ( where Buddy is located~ > teensy 4 room house) for 3 weeks. > At first I noticed no difference in Buddy’s behavior. Then I realized > afer a week that he no longer screamed for hours on end. This isn’t > to say he stopped completely he still demands his share of all > meals. But he doesn’t start sreaming at 10 pm when he wants _everyone > _ to go to bed. > Last week he had a day where he screamed all day. My nerves were > frazzled. I went to turn the DDR up a notch per Jerry’s instructions. > I discovered the DDR was shut off! I turned it back on and left it on > the lowest setting. Buddy calmed back down and quit screaming. > In the time that I’ve had the DDR on I’ve had a lot of c*ts come to my > house. One I adopted and he’s quite the sweetie. He’s a yellow tiger > named Gatomon ( means c*t monster) who is very friendly with my kids > and Zelda. > I may not like how Jerry treats other posters but I do like the > methods he shares. Being on a limited budget I like things that are > free. I also like the fact that I can e-mail him and get advice whenever > I need it. > Even my DH who is a technical minded kind of guy thinks the DDR is > working. ( He went to Devry and has a degree in electronics, knows > alot about radios and anything mechanical… he’s a jack of all trades > around the house ). He does NDT for a living. > We don’t expect to need the DDR forever.. As soon as Joey is walking, > Buddy will realize that he’s not a strange animal.. some kind of > furless dog or c*t . > So, yes, there are some of us out here who do appreciate Jerry’s > methods if not his condemnation of other "regulars". Honey, flies > that sort of thing…. > ~misty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two dogs, > two collars We now have one dog and no collars. > Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come back > in the yard and would run for days. The last time, Peach didn’t > come back home. > I used the Wit’s End Training Manual to learn how to train my dog. > She is now border trained. A few minutes each day reinforces > her desire to stay in the yard. She no longer runs out into the > road, I can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer cringes > when we walk around the yard. > I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the e-fence > and its collars. If you can’t get a regular fence then you need to > train your dog. I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my > dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-( > ~misty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I read up on rotties, pitbulls, etc., and quite a bit of the > literature suggested I needed to assert my dominance and "make > the dog earn everything it gets." I tried this once or twice, just by > taking a stern tone of voice, and the results were terrible. The pup > got scared and just wanted to stay away from me. > That’s why I support Jerry Howe and his FREE Wits’ End Dog > Training > manual — that and the fact that Jerry is an all-around great guy. > The core takeaway I got from Jerry’s manual is this: make yourself > the center of your puppy’s world — his personal Lord Jesus. Never > give him a reason to fear you or think you’re angry. Love the heck > out of him, and you’ll end up with a great dog. > This has truly worked with my puppy. She’ll do anything I want > her to, if she understands, because she trusts me 100 percent, > and nothing is more important in her world than her relationship > with me. http://www.geocities.com/viscouspuppy > Charlie

Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for about one year. It truly does work – at least on my Dobe, Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him personally work with Chelsea. His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog that you will bully, and I wouldn’t dream of hurting her. After Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture, ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash. She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long story and I won’t bore you with all the details, but suffice it to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us. Marge Hoffman. (REWARD PAID BY DW.) P.S. You can send me the reward money, but I won’t sell you my DDR!

Response:

> I was asked to repost my response to "Linda" here. I had

Hello Linda,

> The funny thing about this group is that I am witnessing more human behavior > than dog behavior issues.

You ain’t seen nuthin yet. We’ve got quite a lineup here. > It really is a shame that one must waste so much time and energy weeding > through all the crap that is getting posted here.

Yes. We’ve got a conspiracy of koehler and shock and pronged spiked pinch collar "trainers" here. And of course we also got ed w of pet loss dot CON who told a couple of folks to kill their vicious dogs rather than to give them a chance at life at my HOWES with my family where they’ll never be hurt or choked or shocked again… > Especially since some think they need to include the entire thread in > their reply.

There’s a lot of history here… you want information or speculation? > Is is possible to keep your ‘opinions’ to yourself? (This is NOT > directed at any one individual)

Training issues are all I’m concerned with. It’s imperative that we realize the kind of thinking our "experts" employ, before accepting their advice as valid. Let’s face it, you don’t ask a fisherman who’s not catching fish what’s he using for bait, unless you want to avoid using the same. It’s the same with dog training. We wouldn’t want to accept advice that’s had a history of killing dogs, would we? Our "experts" expect casualties in training. Jerry don’t. Jerry expects every dog to train the same as every other dog. Probably much as you expect every animal to train much the same as every other animal, if you’re using effective scientific methods, CORRECT? > Can we not have a newsgroup where people post > information without bashing someone else?

Sure. There’s no personal bashing in my posts, I talk about METHODS, not personalities and personal achievements and PALS who defend my methods. My arguments are not directed at personalites, only their methods. This is strictly professional. > If you disagree with a posting, keep it to yourself.

I show what’s wrong with the thinking employed in the posts I disagree with. > If you really disagree, would it not be more ‘professional’ to just post your > advice without slamming someone else’s ?

When excellent non violent advice is posted here, our twenty lying dog abusing Thugs tell the poster the non violent methods do not work and will jeaopardize their dog’s lives… like Fritz, Sampson, and Summer and many other DEAD DOGS we’ve entertained here. People who achieve success using my method are call liars. Ask Charles, Jerome, Marilyn, Canis55, Robert Crim, or Paul B… They’re all liars to be killfiled, if you ask our "experts." > You don’t need to argue who has the best methods.

Right. That’s evident when the methods are described and compared. The problem is, we cannot have DISCUSSIONS with LIARS. > If you believe yours is the best, than post the info and leave it up to the > individuals to decide.

Well yes, that would be nice, but our experts conspire to convince folks the non violent methods do not work. They’ll do and say anything to defend their alleged right to hurt and kill dogs to train them. That’s HOWE it’s been on rpdb till I noticed what’s up, and came in here armed with INFORMATION to kill these vicious lying dog abusing bastards using their own words. > If you are that confident that what you advise is > effective, you will not feel the need to argue it.

You don’t see me arguing. I came here to identify, expose, discredit, and dispatch our lying, dog abusing Thugs. My methods are available for FREE in your FREE copy of my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual, the one the "experts" tell us to killfile because it proves our "experts" wrong… > Is name calling and flaming beneficial to the whole group ?

Certainly not. Once we rid our group of our lying dog abusing Thugs, there’ll be an excellent forum here. Until then, all we can offer is confusion, pain, and death to the dogs of people coming here looking for help for their dogs. Of course, some folks are so vested in their pain fear and force methods, they’re too embarrassed to admit their error and change their ways and will join with our dog abusers to defend their guilty consciences (or should that be singular, a single group violence consciousness?) > Whether you are a touch free trainer or jerk and pull trainer the > mission here is to post information for people to make decisions as to what > advice to follow NOT WHOSE advice to follow.

EXACTLY. That’s why I post my methods in a FREE manual for everyone to read and come to their own conclusions. And I offer unlimited additonal FREE help for anyone experiencing difficulty with my methods. That’s why our "experts" tell folks to killfile my information. They’re AFRAID to discuss their methods. Ask cindymooreon about her forced fetch, she’ll threaten to sue you for copyright infringement for posting her "methods" here. Same with dahl… That’s why I quote their methods and their denials of what they teach.. They think twenty liars all in sync will repress the truth. No problem, I’ve got forty years experience dealing with our dog abusers…I know our enemy. I’m in this for the long haul. > It is to discuss dog behavior not to argue.

Our "experts" will not discuss their methods honestly, there’s no room for discussion left. They need to be destroyed, like a rabid dog. I’ve taken the task of cornering and killing the incurable, diseased beast. Call me St. Jude, call me St. Frances, call me Lucifer perhaps. Call me anything you want, but figger it out… there’s never any justifiable reason to inflict pain or intimidate any animal to train IT. Hey, you want some fun? Just ask our dog lovers about Monty Robert’s methods… they’ll floor you with bullshit about his "personal" life and abusive methods. Curiously, they’re quite similar to the Wits’ End Family Leadership Exercise. I suggest you read my manual… > It is always good to hear both sides.

Oh? You like hearing about beating choking shocking and hanging dogs? Seems that’s what so many folks are objecting to in my posts. I’m only quoting our "experts." Funny, that so many folks believe the quotes I provide are my own words and write me nasty private posts. When I correct them and set them straight, I NEVER HEAR from them again… and they won’t post thier objections to those vicious methods on our forum, because they realize this is bigger than they are. That’s fine by me, I don’t want or NEED their amature help. > I personally don’t believe in using physical methods since I trained > elephants and believe me you can’t FORCE an elephant to sit and you > don’t want to risk 10,000 lbs being mad at you.

Well, that’s why we’ve got opposable thumbs, but our ‘experts’ seem to have them well planted one in their mouth, and the other deep in their bums…and they all switch in sync, without missing a beat. You’ll never see a dirty thumb on a one of them, cause the dirt goes back inside their mouths as soon as the thumb is extracted from their filthy butts. > But dare I try to convert those of you that don’t believe in my > methods. No. I will only offer advice based on my experience and

beliefs. I don’t expect you to take the kind of heat I have, but as stated, this is an unusual situation here. We don’t have a discussion group, we’ve got LIARS and dog abusers defending hurting dogs, that’s all we got here. Alphalpha and ron hardin are the only two honest posters, so it seems. I’m still questioning alphalpha’s honesty. We did have one other professional Thug who is also honest, but I don’t know why steve boyer isn’t posting here no moore.. perhaps he saw the writing on the wall, like lyingdogDUMMY and professor lying doc "scruff shake" dermer and professora "chin chuck absolutely does not mean slap" gingold? Hey? You’re a trainer. What’s CHIN CHUCK mean? What’s a "heeling stick?" What’s "stick train" mean? Or "stick fetch?" Hmm? There’s a whole new vocabulary here on rpdb for you to learn before you can discuss training with us… like the definition of HURT. What’s hurt mean? Broken skin? Broken bone? Broken internal organs? BLOOD? Anything short of those conditons are NORMAL, and not to be considerd HURT. HURT is when the dog can’t stand or walk. Our methods don’t HURT NOBODY. Except for the DEAD DOGS, but they’re NOT HURT, so it’s back to redefining language to communicate clearly here on rpdb. Get used to a warp in reality if you’re gonna stick around, good buddy. > I will ask questions to hear other peoples thoughts on a situation.

Good LUCK! I enjoy seeing the foolishness these Thugs post and explaining the irrational thinking they use to arrive at their vicious conclusions. But then we got twenty liars telling people what I’m saying isn’t "proven" and they continue talking about hurting dogs as though it’s the right thing to do, quoting "experts" like koehler, defending his methods, denying they use his ‘ADVANCED’ methods, despite he cautions about following his methods EXACTLY because to fail to do so my incure DEATH… EVEN DESPITE the death toll they’ve incurred with their own kind right here. Take a look around and you’ll see an extraordinary amount of dogs suffering "epilepsy" from stress of training and crating…AND DEATH BY CHEDDAR. > I will always maintain an open mind as would any good dog trainer.

Response:

Hello Linda,

> First and foremost, this will be my last reply to Mr. Jerry Howe.

Reply? I’ve never addressed you. I’ve answered a couple of Thugs responding to your OP, but no, I’ve never responded to you, therefore there’s no way you are replying to me. You may be making a comment about some of my posts, but no, no reply to me. > Your response to my message is evidence that you have no idea who or > what you are replying to.

I checked all my replies to this thread, and it seem you are confused. > My name is not Lynn and I am not a Koehler trainer

Right. lynn is lying "Oh YEAH! I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn k, a devout koehler and shock and pronged pinch spiked choke collar fan. > nor have I ever been.

EXACTLY. That’s why our "experts" jumped all over you. They thought you were sympathetic towards non violent trainers, they don’t like people here talking about NOT hurting dogs to train them. Just look at the response to the thread "they’re killing puppys". Nothing but bitching about spelling and gramma and posting style and complaints about cross posting.. > You seem to be quick to jump the gun and make accusations that are

unjust. You seemed to have misread the headers, and have been quick to jump the gun and accuse me of maligning you, because of my post to our well known, respected, loved, liar, lying "I LOVE KOHELR" lynn kosmakos, our preeminant koehler fancier, since dogman left and dahl is afraid to talk about it as is cindymooreon, despite she quotes his methods on her "faqs" page at k9web. Look up hole digging and alphalpha rolls, her ‘heaviest weapon in her dog training arsenal.’ > Now that I have experienced this first hand,

No, you’ve made an unfortunate although quite understandable error. You believed our liars who responded intentionally with more lies to cause you to believe that I’d attacked you unjustly. That’s O.K., our experts will do or say ANYTHING to defend themselves, that is, anything but the TRUTH. That’s what scares a liar the most. > I have totally lost any respect for you that I may have had.

No problem. I trust your confidence in me will quickly be restored and you’ll come to love and trust me in all your affairs, dogs, people, whatever field of study you’re interested in. I’m certain I’ve got some guidance for you, I do so much moore in my life than simply train dogs. Dog training has become a vehicle to other aspects of the human mind and it’s relationship to self, family, and our society as a species. > (I have never condoned the use of electronic training devices etc. )

I gathered that from your OP. That’ll make you very unpupular here. > I am a touch free trainer and understand what it is you are trying to

do. Perhaps yes, perhaps no. It’d be remiss to ever second guess my motives… I’ll accept your apology, but trust me, it’s not necessary for my personal satisfaction. I know you’ll quickly set yourself straight, and the apology will be reflected in your kindly posts to me, as there is something stronger within us than our personal defense, that’s why we do not HURT animals to train them, isn’t it, Linda. > However, the way you go about it appears to really turn people off.

Imagine that? Could it be the subject matter we’re discussing? After all, choking and beating dogs and twisting their ears and shocking them isn’t exactly the most paltable thought when we think of handling and training our dogs, is it, Linda? No wonder people run like HEEL when they open some of my posts. I QUOTE our respected rpdb Gang Of Thugs members, and they deny it, and because the evidence I submit is so cruel, NOBODY BELIEVES ITS TRUE. Our experts who TEACH the quoted text DENY THEIR OWN WORDS published on their websites and archived forever. That’s the nature of a pathological liar, isn’t it??? > If you truly want to get your message across, why can’t you just post > clear-cut information?

Because this is a very complex group to understand. We’ve got a very long established CONSPIRACY to subvert non violent training methods on every level. Because one competent trainer can be bashed, but five or ten cannot be all bashed together. That’s why they work in sync to disparrage every competent trainer till they no longer post here any longer. Look up the posts of Master_222, Canis55, Marilyn, Colette, Robert Crim, Parker, Aspiring Trainer, any non violent trainer ever posting here has met confrontation, ridicule and harrassment till they simply leave to find somewhere their information will be respected. I saw what had been going on here, and that’s HOWE COME I began posting here and proving our "experts" to be liars and dog abusers. Welcome to rpdb. > If you are a positive trainer, why do you use such negative communications > with people in this group?

Because my daddy told me "you’re judged by the company you keep," therefore there is no way I’ll rub elbows with liars and dog abusers, it goes against my grain. > Bad advice that could lead to the death of a dog is not just cause for > slamming people the way you do.

The "people" I slam are conspirators to repress non violent training methods and defend their alleged right to hurt and kill dogs. > You defeat your purpose.

No, it’s unfortunate but there are indeed collateral damages. I’m willing to accept the high price of war. It’s unfortunate but necessary in this instance. > Do you really think you will get through to them this way?

Nope. Don’t intend to. Never did. I’ve been in this business for forty years, I know the Nature of this Beast. Like a rabid dog, there is no rehabilitation. In that instance, I’ll be the first to kill the dog. I came here to identify, expose, and discredit our lying, dog abusing Thugs. The price of that may be a few sympathizers with my cause, but they’d be too lightweight to use in this war anyway, so they’re simply considered collateral damages and that’s an unfortunate necessity… like twisting and pinching ears and toes and testicles and choking and shocking and beating and hanging dogs are unfortunate realites of the EXPERT DOG TRAINERS who knows HOWE to hurt dogs properly. That’s what our experts need you to believe, that they’re experts and they KNOW that proper infliction of pain and duress is NECESSARY. > Sadly there are people in this world that believe they have to be physical with > their dogs

Our group are predominantely koehler and shock and pronged spiked pinch choke collar fanciers. Not only do they believe hurting dogs is necessary, they ENJOY their work, and proudly teach it to others, and will do and say anything to make their methods acceptable to all. They LIE. This is a conspiracy, not a discussion forum. I discovered that, and took a different hammer to ring our bell. Welcome to Wits’ End Dog Training. Have you read your FREE copy of my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual? If you’ve got any questions of if the method doesn’t appear to work precisely as I suggest it does, please just ask me for extra help and I’m at your service. > and there are those that are open minded to learn more positive > touch free type training.

Yes, I’ve got lots of satisfied students I’ve met here. Unfortunately, they do not stick around, they know what’s going down here on rpdb, and they don’t need it, and I don’t blame them. I tell them to take my manual and run like heel. There’s a couple who’ve stuck around for a while, but the harrassment from our force trainers makes their effort worthless as all their posts are counterd with lies, as they’ve done to all the other competent trainers of the past. That’s why I’m here. > I just got rid of a well paying daycare customer yesterday because she > refused to stop using a pinch collar on her dog.

Good for you. I wouldn’t allow a pronged spiked pinch choke collar on my property for longer than the time it takes to remove it. > If I had argued with her, it would have only turned her off the idea. Instead, I > provided information that will hopefully make her ’see the light’.

Sounds like you didn’t succeed. Some folks just need to inflict pain because it makes them feel powerful, others because they’re convinced hurting dogs is necessary, and still others continue to inflict pain to PROTECT THEIR INVESTMENT in PAIN. Got it? Kinda like going into the hole to pay your bookie. > Turning people off of you as a person will turn them off of your advice thus > rendering your ‘mission’ ineffective.

That’s sometimes the case in warfare. > If you are such a positive trainer, it certainly doesn’t show in your > personality within this group.

I came here to KILL our "experts" not cure. I know better than to corner a rabid animal unless you can kill it. I know better than to not leave them an escape, because that will provoke them to fight. They’re up against the wall. I’m the wall. And I’m holding the match to light their last cigarette. > My apologies to the group for feeding the troll this one last time.

That’s why I leave them no choice but to fight me and die. I trust you’ll serve my purposes well, one way or the other. > Hello lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,

Now I’ll go to your original post, and reply to you. Your friend, Jerry.

Response:

Hello Linda,

> The funny thing about this group is that I am witnessing more human behavior > than dog behavior issues.

You ain’t seen nuthin yet. We’ve got quite a lineup here. > It really is a shame that one must waste so much time and energy weeding > through all the crap that is getting posted here.

There’s a lot of history here… you want information or speculation? > Is is possible to keep your ‘opinions’ to yourself? (This is NOT directed at > any one individual)

Certainly not. Once we rid our group of our lying dog abusing Thugs, there’ll be an excellent forum here. Until then, all we can offer is confusion, pain, and death to the dogs of people coming here looking for help for their dogs. Of course, some folks are so vested in their pain fear and force methods, they’re too embarrassed to admit their error and change their ways and will join with our dog abusers to defend their guilty consciences (or should that be singular, a single group violence consciousness?) > Whether you are a touch free trainer or jerk and pull trainer the mission > here is to post information for people to make decisions as to what advice > to follow NOT WHOSE advice to follow.

Oh? You like hearing about beating choking shocking and hanging dogs? Seems that’s what so many folks are objecting to in my posts. I’m only quoting our "experts." Funny, that so many folks believe the quotes I provide are my own words and write me nasty private posts. When I correct them and set them straight, I NEVER HEAR from them again… and they won’t post thier objections to those vicious methods on our forum, because they realize this is bigger than they are. That’s fine by me, I don’t want or NEED their amature help. > I personally don’t believe in using physical methods since I trained elephants > and believe me you can’t FORCE an elephant to sit and you don’t want to risk > 10,000 lbs being mad at you.

Well, let’s take a good look around and enjoy a few discussions of some of our "methods" and we’ll see exactly HOWE open your mind really is. Ask tara o about her Cheddar cheese method. Read my post "swiss cheese method" in response to lying frosty dahl’s discussion of shock collar training with one of my students who was fortunate enough to be able to engage dahl. You’ll see about fifteen agredgious errors in her method which leads her to SHOCK IN ADVANCE of a command, to insure "honesty" from her expertly, esquisitely trained dogs, being shocked and beaten because … read more »

Response:

> Can we not have a newsgroup where people post > information without bashing someone else? > Wouldn’t that be a nice twist of events. A newsgroup > that was actually impartial to personalities and such > and just exchanged dog information and ideas. > Gwen

Sorry gwen honey, This is now a discussion group according to sally and psychoclown…not an informational exchange. If you want information I suggest you find somewhere that FACTS count… like at your shock collar seminar? Here, it’s spellin and appearances that count because everybody knows you got to SEE a dog to train IT. Perhaps that’s why the conspiracy to suppress non violent training methods? Using non violent methods, training becomes a cereberal affair, not a matter of HURTING the dog PRECISELY, hence DISCUSSION is no longer a matter of importance so much as LEARNING INFORMATION that obviates inflicting precise infliction of PAIN… Damn~ I just realized I’ve NEVER used the word "euthanize" in RL… Maybe our discussions will help me get used to it…thinkin of Summer, Sampson, Fritz, "interested in hearing" "1 step forward" "my golden retriever bit the ups guy" "my dog bit a kid" "dogs chasing horses". Hey? Here’s a thought. Maybe your pal ed w of petloss dot CON will do a cyber memorial for all the DEAD DOGS you and your pals have entertained with your DISCUSSIONS here? Jerry. > Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry. > He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and > watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth! > Out of these MILLIONS, I’ve only seen 2 naive childs > come forward and actually believe in his training manual. Rober Crim writes:

I don’t see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei."…….right. >Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad. Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to listen to the box first?) Hello People, Robert Crim was a former Gang Of Thugs Member, and hated me a much as the rest of our Thugs do. Robert was a long time friend and prominent contributor to rpdb, till Jerry came along and smartened him up. He learned the hard way, and no longer posts to his former pals, because it is just too painful knowing his pals would rather HURT and KILL their dogs than to admit that JERRY is RIGHT.

Response:

Excellent ri[e]post[e] Your touch has not only been not lost, but improved. Yaaaaaay Terri!

Response:

> Can we not have a newsgroup where people post > information without bashing someone else?

Wouldn’t that be a nice twist of events. A newsgroup that was actually impartial to personalities and such and just exchanged dog information and ideas. Gwen

Response:

The funny thing about this group is that I am witnessing more human behavior than dog behavior issues. It really is a shame that one must waste so much time and energy weeding through all the crap that is getting posted here. Especially since some think they need to include the entire thread in their reply. Is is possible to keep your ‘opinions’ to yourself? (This is NOT directed at any one individual) Can we not have a newsgroup where people post information without bashing someone else? If you disagree with a posting, keep it to yourself. If you really disagree, would it not be more ‘professional’ to just post your advice without slamming someone else’s ? You don’t need to argue who has the best methods. If you believe yours is the best, than post the info and leave it up to the individuals to decide. If you are that confident that what you advise is effective, you will not feel the need to argue it. Is name calling and flaming beneficial to the whole group ? Whether you are a touch free trainer or jerk and pull trainer the mission here is to post information for people to make decisions as to what advice to follow NOT WHOSE advice to follow.It is to discuss dog behavior not to argue. It is always good to hear both sides. I personally don’t believe in using physical methods since I trained elephants and believe me you can’t FORCE an elephant to sit and you don’t want to risk 10,000 lbs being mad at you. But dare I try to convert those of you that don’t believe in my methods. No. I will only offer advice based on my experience and beliefs. I will ask questions to hear other peoples thoughts on a situation. I will always maintain an open mind as would any good dog trainer. How many of you are members of the APPDT ? The code of ethics clearing states that you are not to ‘bad mouth’ anyone. ‘Professional’ dog trainers behave in a professional manner. Grow up people and stop wasting other people’s time. If you have something valuable to add, post it to the group otherwise keep it private.

Response:

Larry, As I am beginning to actually use the methods in Jerry’s free training manual (and not simply flame), I can attest to the fact that positive training methods WORK. There are a few other positive trainers (other than Jerry) who also post on here–Marilyn, Helle, Alison, and Patch (if I miss someone please forgive me as I am still relatively new here)–and as I am only beginning to use this method, I would advise you to try what they suggest. For what it’s worth– Lisa

> After looking at the flame war going on here and only getting suggestions > from one source (Jerry), am I to assume his is the recommended method? > Carver K-9 has certainly shown his disapproval to Jerry’s methods but has > offered me nothing in the way of alternatives which is why I posted here in > the first place. > So, that said, may I suggest to Carver K-9 that you either "put up or shut > up" in this string? I still have a family dog who spent the night outside > because he pissed all over the house again yesterday. > Regards, > Larry

Here’s a couple quotes from our dog abusing lying Thug pals: "I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But Destructive," amy "Get A 30"- 40" Stick. CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand," As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch. When the dog is digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch, you are finished" "This is continued resistance to your increasing authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome" If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!" "(stay on the ear until it does)" "(perhaps because the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided it isn’t worth it)" "You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply" Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in" "but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch" You can press the dog’s ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb" "even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that" "Make the dog’s need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting your will fades in importance" dahl. "Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold. "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro manure." "Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens, But You’ll Get Over It." mike duforth, author: "Courteous Canine." Here’s a couple words from my students:

Response:

Face Off

admin — Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

You’re going to teach my dog to stop on a dime by cocking your leg on his sofa? >Imagine if you could stop your dog on a dime like he’ll stop you just by >cocking >his leg on your sofa. That level of non physical control is what I >teach

Let the PIT BULLS loose to e-mail me!

Response:

He’ll join me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You’re going to teach my dog to stop on a dime by cocking your leg on his sofa? >Imagine if you could stop your dog on a dime like he’ll stop you just by >cocking >his leg on your sofa. That level of non physical control is what I >teach > Let the PIT BULLS loose to e-mail me!

Response:

By cocking his leg on _your_ sofa? I thought you said you were going to teach him not to do that. Some trainer you are. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >He’ll join me. > You’re going to teach my dog to stop on a dime by cocking your leg on >his sofa? > >Imagine if you could stop your dog on a dime like he’ll stop you just >by > >cocking > >his leg on your sofa. That level of non physical control is what I > >teach > Let the PIT BULLS loose to e-mail me!

Let the PIT BULLS loose to e-mail me!

Response:

Is that all you can say about my methods? BWWWAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> By cocking his leg on _your_ sofa? I thought you said you were going to teach > him not to do that. Some trainer you are. >He’ll join me. >> You’re going to teach my dog to stop on a dime by cocking your leg on >his sofa? >> >Imagine if you could stop your dog on a dime like he’ll stop you just >by >> >cocking >> >his leg on your sofa. That level of non physical control is what I >> >teach >> Let the PIT BULLS loose to e-mail me! > Let the PIT BULLS loose to e-mail me!

Response:

Hello People, The next time your dog comes over and shoves his mug in your face to give you a great big kiss, ask your self this. Do dogs have germs we can catch? Do we have germs we can give our dogs? If we have a cold or somethin we certainly wouldn’t want to increase their exposure any more than necessary, would we. Dogs think in more general terms than people do. Perhaps that’s why we fail so often in trying to correct behaviors and mistakes when we focus directly on the behavior in question, thus calling the dog’s attention to his ability to command you and stop you dead in your tracks to pay him 100% of your undivided attention. Imagine if you could stop your dog on a dime like he’ll stop you just by cocking his leg on your sofa. That level of non physical control is what I teach, without fear, force, corrections, or confrontation. Praise in advance and constantly. Got it? Dogs generalize ideas rather quickly on their own and often from just one meaningful experience, like the dog spooked by the trashmen and hence is forever afraid of men everywhere. That’s diametrically opposed to the commonly accepted understanding that trained behaviors are difficult for the dog to generalize. And I agree with that POV as well. The ways dogs think and learn and HOWE to generalize behaviors quickly are clearly defined in your FREE copy of my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual. O.K. Whether you’re able to fathom these ideas or not changes nothing. My methods do not require extreme adjustments and in depth mystical knowledge of dog behavior or consideration of individual breeds of dogs or behaviors. Everything is just a little bigger or smaller sandbox, like in the Chihuahua post sharing the kitty box without eating the poo is no different that going outside in the yard and not eating the poo. Just a bigger or smaller sandbox in the dog’s mind. The method for training the dog not to eat poo is the same for a Chi in a kat box as it is for a Dane in a 20’sq backyard. That’s why my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Methods work so universally well because it’s an exact method The individual differences and past histories matter little more than as curiousities. That’s why I’m such a stickler for doing everything exactly according to the philosophy and methods because they were designed for problem dogs that were too big and too dangerous to try to force, many of them having had a couple or moore force trainers prior to finding me. Confinement to crates increases anxiety in the vast majority of untrained dogs. Throwing a dog in a box and locking the door is ostracism. Then you let the pup cry and whine and not take him out till he’s quiet. Then when he comes out of his den wonder of wonders, he craps on his turff, your living room floor. So you tell him NO, calling Mother Nature a liar…starting confusion and mistrust from day one. Crate "training" before the dog is trained is an obstacle and is CONTRAWISE to everything taught in my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method philosophy. Safety for the handler, the family, and the dog are equal considerations. Getting 100% strict control and exact obedience is part of the big picture. Dogs think instinctively and reflexively in terms of the big picture. That’s why we have difficulty training specific behaviors, because the dog cannot see from so close to the problem, they have a wider scope and specifics often appear blurred. That’s why I try to get my dogs to a peak level of curiousity and excitement. The level of excitement that causes dogs to go out of control can be harnessed to keep the dog in control. A high state of excitement assists learning and memory recall, like driving in low gear. That’s why distractions are often an asset according the the manual. That’s why traditional trainers talk about precise timing, especially our shock collar freaks. That’s why our "experts" tell you they need to see behaviors and you need to be shown HOWE to give an effectively timed correction. Think about that from the big picture the dog thinks in. Here’s the scenario. You’ve been training your dog to walk on leash and he’s been accidentally mishandled and has accidentally hit the end of the lead and jerked himself a couple times. Then you go to take him out again and you show him his lead and he gets all excited. Over exitement at seeing their lead coming in the majority of dogs indicates stress, not anticpation of a great experience. Our "experts" brag proudly at the show of anticipation their dogs display when their training gear comes out. In reality they’re beggin not to be hurt somemoore. O.K., so here you are now, about face to face with your dog as you lean over him attaching his lead to the collar for a nice walk unintentionally reminding the dog of his prior unintentional corrections, and he reflexively "flashes" on that painful experience and snaps back at you without even thinking (dogs are reflexive, that’s HOWE they can snap a fly out of the air), for restimulating feelings of a prior painful experience. And he accidentally rips your face off. Now think about maybe having a history of intentionally physically or emotionally correcting, repressing, dominating, and confining the dog? That’s why force trainers have the anticipated "adolescent rebellious stage." My FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method students do not have that problem, as we use NO FORCE therefore there is nothing to rebell about. There’s no "authority" figure to challenge, because my students do not compete with the dog on an "alpha" level. That’s what causes dogs to act like wild pack animals. Hey, anybody got milk? j;~}

Response:

Sound Distraction And Praise Techniques As INEFFECTIVE?

admin — Mon, 13 Aug 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

> It’s also a "response" to a post Ruth Mays made on 4/13/2000. > Jerry’s playing his strawman game again because nobody will talk

to him. > Lynn K.

From your koehler book: "While he’s held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs. Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it’s the bitter end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat performances that will be necessary. When you’re finished and the dog is convinced that he is…" From Frank to lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn: "How fricken sick do you need to be to say a dog chooses to be shocked or pronged or shot in the ass with a sling shot? Chooses it over what? Are you twisted pieces of human refuse offering a dog a selection of torture devices, and observing them indicating their personal preference of pain infliction? I thought the whole idea behind aversion training was that the subject does not choose it. You Lynn thinking people are a bunch of abusive idiots. *YOU* choose to hurt dogs. Fine. But the fact that you want to sell the idea that the dogs that god and human society have entrusted, have gifted to you, are actually empowered by your abuse, is an example of sociopathic illogic beyond anything this ng has yet offered. You’re like some fricken wife beater who actually says "Don’t make me hit you, Bitch!" What part of what backwoods portion of which idiot nation do you people reside in? THE DOG CHOOSES? What is next? we have so far 1. I hurt dogs to save their lives. 2. I hurt dogs to save people’s lives. 3. I hurt dogs to accomodate their choice in being hurt. Just hurt the dogs and don’t try to explain it. Please, you’re scaring me with this stuff. No wonder why you guys get so bent out of shape when others speculate as to your motivation behind hurting dogs. Their speculation seems more plausable then what you yourself offer. You’re so sick, so drunk with your "tools" of power, that you don’t even see the abusive egoism in your explanations. You people are way far gone. It will be 20 years before you’ll be embarrassed or ashamed by what you write in here daily." And here’s a little of what Frank was talking about: "Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens, But You’ll Get Over It." mike duforth, author: "Courteous Canine." "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro manure." "The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House," 1996 William Koehler "Housebreaking problems": Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped with a collar and piece of line so he can’t avoid correction. When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to the place of his error, and hold his head close enough so that he associates his error with the punishment. Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper. It is important to your future relationship that you do not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him. When he’s been spanked, take him outside. Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding and close observation, you will not have to do much punishing. Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost house-broken and then force him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier. The same general techniques of housebreaking apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house. For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and then backslides, the method of correction differs somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the "revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed. The first step of correction is to confine the dog closely in a part of the house when you go away, so that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you no other course than to punish him sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences. If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these "backsliders" will think they’re winning and will continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he’s made so you can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish him again for the same thing. In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the light spanking that some owners seem to think is adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog, as well as the house, if you really pour it on him. Some of the new "breaking scents" on the market can aid in your house-breaking program. One type discourages the dog from even visiting an area. Another encourages him to relieve himself in the area where it is sprinkled. Your pet shop should be able to supply further information on the brands available in your district. Be fair to your dog in what and when you feed him and be consistent in your efforts to housebreak him, and you’ll soon accomplish the job. BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him know you were against his sound effects, even though your reproving didn’t quiet them, so we’ll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start with something more emphatic. We’ll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use his mind rather than his mouth. But you won’t make the permanent impression unless you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control he thus acquires. Make sure these opportunities don’t always come at the same time of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet hour" and pursue his old routines at other times. With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his lesson. As was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the dog’s value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows more discriminating, increase it. The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness because you’re gone constitutes a different problem. If it is impractical for someone to stay with him constantly (there are owners who cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you’ll have to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand. Attach a line to your dog’s collar, so your corrective effort doesn’t turn into a footrace around the house until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the correction will also serve to establish it as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around when you’re not present. Next, equip yourself with a man’s leather belt or a strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good tanning. Yup-we’re going to strike him. Real hard. Remember, you’re dealing with a dog who knows he should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to see that he does. Now leave, and let your fading footsteps tell the dog of your going. When you’ve walked to a point where he’ll think you’re gone but where you could hear any noises he might make, stop and listen. If you find a comfortable waiting place on a nearby porch, be careful not to talk or laugh. Tests show a dog’s hearing to be many times as sharp as yours. When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the door so you can barge in while he’s still barking, which is generally impossible, respond to his first sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep on bellowing as you charge back to his area. Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you’ve conveniently placed, and descend on him. He’ll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or, if he’s a big dog, until you’ve snubbed him up with a hitch on something. While he’s held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs. Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it’s the bitter end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat performances that will be necessary. When you’re finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the area again. So that you won’t feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a great percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell. Personally, I’ve always felt that it’s even better to spank children, even if they "cry out," than to "put them to sleep." You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent correction to his first sound and repeat the spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more. It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another day … read more »

Response:

Hello lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,

> It’s also a "response" to a post Ruth Mays made on 4/13/2000.

Is that so? It’s been in the FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual since long before I ever had the displeasure to run across your dog abusing pal ruthie. > Jerry’s playing his strawman game again because nobody will talk

to him. You got anything to say about my methods? You like to hurt dogs, lying lynn. You told a new foster care giver to leave a long line on their new foster dog in his crate, and to jerk and choke him to keep him quiet. That’s not nice, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn. Talk dog training. Here’s your koehler method and some abuse your pals lying frosty dahl and cindy mooreon like to call training: "Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens, But You’ll Get Over It." mike duforth, author: "Courteous Canine."

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro manure." "The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House," 1996 William Koehler "Housebreaking problems": Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped with a collar and piece of line so he can’t avoid correction. When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to the place of his error, and hold his head close enough so that he associates his error with the punishment. Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper. It is important to your future relationship that you do not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him. When he’s been spanked, take him outside. Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding and close observation, you will not have to do much punishing. Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost house-broken and then force him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier. The same general techniques of housebreaking apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house. For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and then backslides, the method of correction differs somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the "revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed. The first step of correction is to confine the dog closely in a part of the house when you go away, so that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you no other course than to punish him sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences. If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these "backsliders" will think they’re winning and will continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he’s made so you can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish him again for the same thing. In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the light spanking that some owners seem to think is adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog, as well as the house, if you really pour it on him. Some of the new "breaking scents" on the market can aid in your house-breaking program. One type discourages the dog from even visiting an area. Another encourages him to relieve himself in the area where it is sprinkled. Your pet shop should be able to supply further information on the brands available in your district. Be fair to your dog in what and when you feed him and be consistent in your efforts to housebreak him, and you’ll soon accomplish the job. BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him know you were against his sound effects, even though your reproving didn’t quiet them, so we’ll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start with something more emphatic. We’ll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use his mind rather than his mouth. But you won’t make the permanent impression unless you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control he thus acquires. Make sure these opportunities don’t always come at the same time of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet hour" and pursue his old routines at other times. With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his lesson. As was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the dog’s value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows more discriminating, increase it. The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness because you’re gone constitutes a different problem. If it is impractical for someone to stay with him constantly (there are owners who cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you’ll have to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand. Attach a line to your dog’s collar, so your corrective effort doesn’t turn into a footrace around the house until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the correction will also serve to establish it as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around when you’re not present. Next, equip yourself with a man’s leather belt or a strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good tanning. Yup-we’re going to strike him. Real hard. Remember, you’re dealing with a dog who knows he should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to see that he does. Now leave, and let your fading footsteps tell the dog of your going. When you’ve walked to a point where he’ll think you’re gone but where you could hear any noises he might make, stop and listen. If you find a comfortable waiting place on a nearby porch, be careful not to talk or laugh. Tests show a dog’s hearing to be many times as sharp as yours. When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the door so you can barge in while he’s still barking, which is generally impossible, respond to his first sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep on bellowing as you charge back to his area. Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you’ve conveniently placed, and descend on him. He’ll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or, if he’s a big dog, until you’ve snubbed him up with a hitch on something. While he’s held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs. Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it’s the bitter end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat performances that will be necessary. When you’re finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the area again. So that you won’t feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a great percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell. Personally, I’ve always felt that it’s even better to spank children, even if they "cry out," than to "put them to sleep." You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent correction to his first sound and repeat the spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more. It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another day off so that you’ll have time to follow through sufficiently. When you have a full day, you will be able to convince him each yelp will have a bad consequence, and the consistency will make your job easier. If he gets away with his concert part of the time, he’ll be apt to gamble on your inconsistency. After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the correction" will be tied in close enough association so that you can move in on him without the preliminary bellowing of "out." From then on, it’s just a case of laying for the dog and supplying enough bad consequences of his noise so he’ll no longer feel like gambling. Occasionally, there is a dog who seems to sense that you’re hiding nearby and will utter no sound. He also seems to sense when you have really gone away, at least according to the neighbors. Maybe his sensing actually amounts to close observation. He could be watching and listening for the signs of your actual going. Make a convincing operation of leaving, even if it requires changing clothes and being unusually noisy as you slam the doors on the family car and drive away. Arrange with a friend to trade cars a block or two from your house so you can come back and park within earshot without a single familiar sound to tell the dog you’ve returned. A few of these car changes are generally enough to fool the most alert dog. Whether your dog believes you are gone anytime you step out of the house or requires … read more »

Response:

Hello rihadink0,

> This is a dog for cripes sake!

Exactly. That’s why I teach people HOWE to handle and train them, I’m a dog trainer. > JH makes it sound like a person in a fur coat.

Not at all. I’ve specialized in dog behavior and temperament problems and protection training for thirty eight years, mostly with giant breed dogs. > My dog’s life may depend on INSTANT obedience to a command.

EXACTLY. And you don’t get any faster than conditioned reflex to a command. I teach you HOWE to get an instant, reliable come command intstalled as a conditioned reflex, in about one hour. > I do not want him "thinking" about it.

Right. We don’t want the dog thinking when he’s supposed to be REFLEXING. HOWEver, when we’re breaking a behavior, we DO want the dog THINIKING, but not about the inappropriate behavior, because that would train the inappropriate behavior, WOULDN’T IT. > And no my dog is not abused and yes he LOVES to work.

Certainly. But do you know HOWE to train? That’s the question. Competent trainers do not complain about my methods, they study them. Have you got any quesions? I suggest you read my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual. > Virginia Cleary > Rihadin Kennels > http://rihadin.freeservers.com > & The Crafty K9 > http://craftyk9.theshoppe.com > Phoenix, AZ

"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." -Leo Tolstoy- Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?: CAVEAT If you have to do things to your dog to train him that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer who tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, chin cuff, scruff shake or punish your dog in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows HOWE. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe-

Response:

> This is a dog for cripes sake! JH makes it sound like a person in a fur coat. > My dog’s life may depend on INSTANT obedience to a command. I do not want him > "thinking" about it. And no my dog is not abused and yes he LOVES to work.

It’s also a "response" to a post Ruth Mays made on 4/13/2000. Jerry’s playing his strawman game again because nobody will talk to him. Lynn K.

Response:

This is a dog for cripes sake! JH makes it sound like a person in a fur coat. My dog’s life may depend on INSTANT obedience to a command. I do not want him "thinking" about it. And no my dog is not abused and yes he LOVES to work. Virginia Cleary Rihadin Kennels http://rihadin.freeservers.com & The Crafty K9 http://craftyk9.theshoppe.com Phoenix, AZ

Response:

Hello People, Hello mays, You’re still confused. I’m not being sarcastic or critical. It is confusing for people who aren’t familiar with the concept.

> But unless different sounds are being used for different > results, how is the dog to know that the sound means "sit" this > time, and "down" next time, and "stay" the time after that?

The sound can be used to train or break a behavior. The idea is, when TRAINING a behavior we use the sound ONLY to punctuate alternate cue words (commands), and the sound must come exactly on the cue (command) word. When BREAKING a behavior, we create the sound as soon as we notice the onset of the undesired behavior and immediately follow the sound with prolonged, non physical praise for five to fifteen seconds, unless the behavior resumes, in which case we simply make the next sound and praise, and so forth, UNTIL THE BEHAVIOR IS BROKEN. The sound must never come from the same source twice in a row. After the dog has been conditioned using voice commands and hand signals (at the same time) by associating it with the sound cue on the second and fourth requests (commands), if the dog fails to respond to a command, we reissue the command with the appropriate alternate sound and praise. The PRAISE IS PART OF THE COMMAND, it LOCKS HIS THOUGHTS on the IDEA of the command… The sound is a TRIGGER, pulling down remembrances of all the prior conditioning (provided you did it correctly). ANY sound may be used, perhaps a snap of the fingers, a whistle, a coin tossed beyond the dog, a soda can or film can with a couple pennies (but the can must be crushed so as NOT to roll and make a prolonged sound thus taking his attention away from YOU). And you got to follow the technique, even from one day to the next. Example: if your dog doesn’t come in from the yard the first time you call him, you’d quickly repeat the command with a sound on the cue word (come) and praise him, and the dog will come in, because we trigger the memory of the prior conditioning… Let’s say the dog works fine for the next couple of days… Then, he again refuses to come in from the yard the first time you call him, you’d quickly STOP AND THINK…. WHAT WAS THE LAST INSTANCE I REQUIRED A SOUND TO MAKE HIM COME??? You’d think back to a couple of days ago, and remember that you made the sound by snapping your fingers and calling him from the doorway. That means that THIS TIME, YOU MUST create the sound beyond the dog, perhaps using a soda can. HOWE’S THAT hit you? Sounds pretty good to me. And of course your going to forget, or screw it up, but we can always fix it, because we AREN’T CHOKING AND JERKING AND SHOCKING the dog, so there’s no harm done. So, let’s say you’ve trained the come command as a conditioned reflex. That’s the first thing I do while working on the Family Leadership Exercise. In about fifteen minutes we’ve got the dog walking calmly by our side, looking up and getting praised, and smiling and wagging his tail gently AND, he comes the first time we call him. Now I don’t care HOWE you want to cut it, YOU CAN’T BEAT THAT INTO THEM WITH A STICK. So, that’s why I’m fighting like hell to get some of you folks to understand that with JUST THAT as a start, the CALIBER of ADVANCED TRAINING OF ANY KIND, will be FAR SUPERIOR to any other method that you or our "professor” friends can come up with. Let’s wager on that, shall we? I bet my life on it, just like in my challenge to freaky fraud die. Notice he didn’t jump at the chance to feed me to Maddy… I would own his dog, and he knows it, and I think YOU DO TOO. > Merely making sound at a dog will not get it to do what you > want, no matter how much praise you follow that sound with.

No, of course not. YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND AND FOLLOW THE TECHNIQUE. I could teach a dog to come pretty reliably in LESS time it takes FOR THIS ONE POST. HOW’S THAT HIT YOU? > You have to create an association between some > specific signal (auditory or visual) and the desired result.

We’re not MERELY making a sound in the process of teaching a behavior. We are using a scientific technique of CONDITIONING to cause a REFLEXIVE behavior. You have to create an association between the sound, the command, and the praise and the tone and tempo and even the environment, must be the same, and the sound must always alternate, everything must be as exact as possible, until the command is conditioned, and VIOLIN! He’s GOT IT! It happens fast, but not the first or second time you do it. At least NOT UNTIL he’s a little more highly conditioned, then he will learn a new command the second time he is given the command, but you do have to do something to help, LIKE DEMONSTRATE the desired behavior. Let’s say we’re teaching the come command. I like to do that with the entire family at once. We pair off and whomever the dog is NOT with, THEY call the dog. HOPEFULLY, the dog will not come running the first time, because we WANT him to refuse the command, so we can use the sound to CONDITION the response… When the dog is called, if he doesn’t respond immediately on the sound, the people with him respond to demonstrate to the dog. Just because your dog comes willingly 99% of the time, that does not mean he’s got a CONDITIONED REFLEX. > Praise has to follow the desired action, not precede it, or the > dog will be hopelessly confused.

YOUR DEAD WRONG. Praise LOCKS THE DOG’S THOUGHTS on the command. That’s why I stress NON PHYSICAL praise, because we DON’T WANT TO INTERRUPT THE DOG’S THINKING. > This whole thread reminds me of an ad on tv- for the lottery.

I love to gamble. But I don’t gamble with dog’s lives or temperaments. Luck is abundant, but chancy. Using force to train a dog is chancy, because he may not knuckle under, and he could get upset about being jerked, choked, and shocked. THAT’S why the pounds are full. Sure, most of the dogs in pounds are there because of negligent owners, but the dogs who have failed force training are the first ones in, and the first ones out. THEY KILL THEM because they’ve been made aggressive through abusive training methods like the ones taught here. At least stray and neglected dogs have a chance at adoption. Unless someone like lyinglynn gets her filthy hands on him in the shelter, then she’ll jerk him around and choke him for a while, and let’s JUST HOPE he don’t object, OR HE’S DEAD. > The scene is a bare room with two audio speakers and a dog. > The speakers issue commands, followed by "good dog", > whether or not the dog does what is asked. Mostly the dog > just sits there ignoring the whole thing….

That’s because the dog wasn’t properly conditioned. My dog was laying on the floor when a dog training program on tv told the dog to SIT!, and my dog flipped out and wanted to tear his head off of him for giving a command in that manner. She growled for thirty minutes at him for talking down to another dog like that… > an oddly Doggy Do Right scenario….

INDEED, you got that Right, AND HOWE… http://www.doggydoright.com > Ruth Mays > I recommend to all rpdb readers that Jerry Howe > should be ignored as a crank and waste of time

I recommend that all rpdb readers who have a disclaimer about Jerry Howe, BE WATCHED. Jerry Howe does NOT HURT dogs to train them. Those I accuse of ABUSING DOGS, tell you I hurt them and TELL YOU to killfile ME. Why are they so FREAKED OUT? Because I am EXPOSING them as the DOG ABUSERS they are… WHERE THERE’S SMOKE, THERE’S FIRE… j;~} Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?: caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe-

Response:

How to shut up the dog of my neighbour

admin — Fri, 09 Mar 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small one that allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour one to do someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant persone. I would like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when he is gone. My question is, will it work through a window? Some barkerbreakers work up to 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I would like to solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the dog down. Please help me.

Response:

the doggydoright device claims to work… Its guarnteed for life (moneyback) and has a 2 year warrenty. www.doggydoright.com Give this a go, and let us know if it works. Talk to Jerry if you have any questions, He’ll be more than happy to help you out;) Jen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small one that > allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour one to do > someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant persone. I would > like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when he is gone. My > question is, will it work through a window? Some barkerbreakers work up to > 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I would like to > solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the dog down. > Please help me.

Response:

Thank you, Jen.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the doggydoright device claims to work… Its guarnteed for life (moneyback) > and has a 2 year warrenty. > www.doggydoright.com > Give this a go, and let us know if it works. > Talk to Jerry if you have any questions, He’ll be more than happy to help you > out;) > Jen > My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small one that > allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour one to do > someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant persone. I would > like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when he is gone. My > question is, will it work through a window? Some barkerbreakers work up to > 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I would like to > solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the dog down. > Please help me.

Response:

Why even bother Jerry… especially when you say I’m a fraud… Jen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thank you, Jen. > the doggydoright device claims to work… Its guarnteed for life > (moneyback) > and has a 2 year warrenty. > www.doggydoright.com > Give this a go, and let us know if it works. > Talk to Jerry if you have any questions, He’ll be more than happy > to help you > out;) > Jen > > My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small > one that > > allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour one > to do > > someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant > persone. I would > > like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when he is > gone. My > > question is, will it work through a window? Some barkerbreakers > work up to > > 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I > would like to > > solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the > dog down. > > Please help me.

Response:

>> the doggydoright device claims to work…

> Jen >Thank you, Jen.

Just imagine how PISSED this lady’s gonna be when her Doggie DooDoo does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Hell, she’s ready to "take the dog down" at this point. Just imagine HOWE she’ll react once she realizes she’s been DUPED into a COMPLETE WASTE of a hundred bucks! Hut naam!!! Maybe she’ll come after Smegma-boy to take HIM down! (We can only hope…) WHY IS SMEGIE SUCH A JERK? Why does he have to flame people all the time? Why does every post he makes have to end up marketing his unproven method and his black box? Why can’t Smegma be respectful? Why is Smegma so rude to people? Why is Smegma mean? Why does Smegma call people names? Why is Smegma so immature? Why must Smegma respond to each post line-by-line, ripping apart all that was said, one line at a time? Why won’t Smegma post in a thread? Why do Smegma’s posts always have to start a new thread, while quoting the contents of another thread? Why is Smegma mean to people? Why is Smegma so self-righteous? Is Smegma an abused child? Is Smegma a victim of ritual satanic abuse? Is Smegma mentally ill? Is Smegma really a pimple-faced 14 year old? Is Smegma a happy person? Is Smegma mean to his dog? Is Smegma without a friend in the world? Is Smegma a lonely man? Is Smegma a con man – a scam artist? Is Smegma supposed to be incarcerated? Is Smegma an ex-convict? Is Smegma on parole? Is Smegma in trouble with the law? Is Smegma an angry man? Is Smegma a ‘road rager’? Is Smegma a bible-thumping fundamentalist right-wing religious zealot/freak? Is Smegma as ugly on the outside as he is on the inside? Is Smegma a high school graduate? Is Smegma ever going to gain insight into the proper use of the English language? Is Smegma capable of writing gramatically correct sentences? Is Smegma a closed-minded troll? Is Smegma obsessed? Is Smegma as annoying in real life as he is on this newsgroup? Is Smegma suffering? Is Smegma capable of being reasonable? (To the tune of "Three Blind Mice") Smegie is a JERK! A BIG, STUPID JERK! Smegie is a JERK! A BIG, STUPID JERK! He’s always hawking that useless box, He flames and trolls in every post! He’s the JERK we love to HATE the most! HOWE is a JERK! A BIG, STUPID JERK! HOWE is a JERK! A BIG, STUPID JERK! (repeat) Hey, Smegma, kiss here —>(_*_) Submitted via WebNewsReader of http://www.interbulletin.com

Response:

Hello jen,

> Why even bother Jerry…

Why shouldn’t I be NICE to you? > especially when you say I’m a fraud…

That’s because you probably are. You’re hoping she’ll buy my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) and be dissatisfied with it, so you can ridicule me someMOORE. But you’re a big spender with other people’s money. I’d have told them HOWE to do the job FOR FREE, using the FREE INFORMATION in the FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves. I’ve been talking myself OUT OF several sales a week, by TEACHING people HOWE to handle their dog behavior problems WITHOUT my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Think I should take away the FREE TRAINING??? But because the original poster isn’t the dog owner, they can simply follow the sound distraction and praise techniques I’ll send them now. You’d have known that, had you read the FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available FOR FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confrontational, scientific and psychological conditioning and deconditioning techniques in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). For additional FREE help for any dog or cat behavior questions, please call or write. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Director of Training, Wits’ End Dog Training Director of Research, BIOSOUND Scientific 1611 24th St Orlando, FL 32805 Fax: (208)460-4270 Phone: 1-407-425-5092 Phone: 1-888-BIOSOUND (1-888-246-7686) http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jen > Thank you, Jen. > > the doggydoright device claims to work… Its guarnteed for life > (moneyback) > > and has a 2 year warrenty. > > www.doggydoright.com > > Give this a go, and let us know if it works. > > Talk to Jerry if you have any questions, He’ll be more than happy > to help you > > out;) > > Jen > > > My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small > one that > > > allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour one > to do > > > someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant > persone. I would > > > like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when he is > gone. My > > > question is, will it work through a window? Some barkerbreakers > work up to > > > 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I > would like to > > > solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the > dog down. > > > Please help me.

Response:

Hello Carola, > My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A small one that > allways barks. It is really frustrating.

Yes, I’m familiar with that. I deal with people all day long who’ve got inconsiderate neighbors who’s barking dogs are effecting their health. > I ask my neighbour one to do someting about it but my neighbour is an very > unpleasant persone.

Yes, we’ve got a few "dog lovers" like them right here. > I would like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when

he is gone. That probably won’t work. You could stick your head out the window and scream obscenities at the dog just like the barker breaker does, and get the EXACT SAME RESULTS. Except you wouldn’t get horse from cussin. > My question is, will it work through a window?

Pssst! It wouldn’t work if it’s tied to his tail. > Some barkerbreakers work up to 25 feet,

IF they work at all. They’re not intended for neighbor’s barking dogs. > but does it also work through walls and windows?

If you can scream "SHUDDUP" through the closed window and the dog can hear it, then he would be just as likely to be able to hear the BB. > I would like to solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take the dog > down.

I know HOWE you feel about it, this is my specialty. I’ve got the only device that will work and is guaranteed, as jen said. But she wasn’t sincere in recommending my device. I am, HOWEver. But that’s not what I’m recommending either. Jen is a big spender with YOUR money. She only wants you to buy it so SHE can find out if it works. If it don’t work, she’ll be able to ridicule me. If it does work, she’ll still ridicule me, but just won’t use your testimonial. They’ve been doing this for a long time, so don’t be put off by our Gang Of Thugs. NOTICE they don’t have ANY advice about this problem AT ALL, except to tell you to make friends with the neighbor and walk his dog three times a day for him… I’m a dog trainer. That means I should KNOW HOWE to train the dog NOT to bark, even though he’s not yours. Chances are, my standard training advice will work for you as well as it does for the rest of my students. > Please help me.

Here ya go. My machine works better than anything else in the universe, but FREE is better, don’t you agree? The only difference is, this method is going to require some consistant effort for a couple of days, to proprly and quickly break the behavior. You’re also at a disadvantage, as you’re not able to handle the dog yourself (I know if you could, you’d wring it’s neck, so please don’t try to physically train this puppy on leash by yourself alone, out of sight of the public… j;~}) One last point. When the dog first begins to break his barking, you’ll hear an "extinguishment" barking pattern. The regular barking will begin to break up, and there will be "spaces" in between the barks. Those "spaces" require instant praise. ANY WHINING IS GOOD. It’s NOT barking, so PRAISE THE WHINING. When the barking is fully extinguished, THEN work on the whining just as you did the barking. Ask if you need more help. Jerry. SOUND DISTRACTION AND PRAISE TECHNIQUE Using this technique is the easiest and fastest way to break any behavior. There are a number of things that have to be considered when beginning this approach. A few preliminary exercises in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available at: http://www.doggydoright.com will explain the basic handling techniques you should learn. Using them will insure that the method will work to a high degree of proficiency. The problem is that not many people understand how to use the sound distraction and praise techniques correctly, and do not know HOWE to use the come command as a default, if the sound does not work on occasion. When you are told these methods have been tried and didn’t work, rest assured that whomever "tried" it and for whom it did not work, did not "try" doing it correctly. If the technique does not work, the come command is to be used as a default, and a new attempt at addressing the problem can begin. I’ve heard a couple of the "experts" saying they’ve tried it, and it didn’t work for them or it made their dog nervous. Those are usually the experts who choke and shock dogs, and are trying to FORCE the dog using sound instead of choking or shocking… Many of them have never read the techniques presented here, and are using inappropriate or incorrect methods. There are some people who do not follow directions and get lousy results, and there are people who do not allow the technique adequate repetition to be successful. There is no excuse that these techniques will not work if done correctly, they are a scientific fact. Any sound will suffice. Ideally, the sound would be the same each time, but that is not always possible. A single clap of the hands or snap of the fingers would do, if it were followed by praise, and as long as it does not happen twice in succession from the same point of origin. That’s why several penny cans are required, or a friend or family member can be enlisted to clap their hands or snap their fingers, to create another source of sound distraction. You cannot use the same penny can for more than two occasions in succession. Once it’s been tossed, it must remain where it falls, till the exercise if finished. The sound must always be instantly followed by PROLONGED (5-15 seconds), non physical praise. The sound must never occur from the same point of origin twice in succession. The sound must be brief. Any UNINTENTIONAL sounding should be avoided and PRAISED if it occurs. That will let the dogs know it was not intended for them. When more than one dog is present when using sound distractions and praise techniques, all dogs present must receive praise with direct eye contact so they will UNDERSTAND they were not being addressed. The praise must continue constantly for several seconds following any sound cue to allow the thought process to be completed. The behavior MUST be allowed or CAUSED to be repeated and interrupted AGAIN using sound and praise until the behavior is broken. And most importantly, the moment the dog thinks of resuming the behavior, you must praise him. That’s right. When the dog thinks about resuming the behaviorpraise him at that exact moment, and the previous DISTRACTIONS will be restimulated in the dogs mind, and the behavior will QUICKLY be extinguished. That’s why trying to prevent the dog from doing a behavior is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. You end up distracting the dog’s thoughts from the behavior we are teaching or breaking. That seems to be the real hard part for the trainers here to understand. They want to make it happen, and they interfere with the dog’s thought process. The dog will learn through the process of elimination of alternative actions or behaviors. It ONLY takes a few minutes, and the behavior is eliminated, rather than repressed and seething to resume, as is the case with physical or verbal corrections, confrontation, or punishment "techniques." The trainer will confound his efforts when they insist on telling the dog "NO!," instead of relying on the conditioning that has been established. Shouting at the dog will often trigger the opposite of the desired effect. Phyisical opposition is triggered through force or pressure, emotional opposition is triggered through negative emotions. What further complicates the process for the trainer, is that they break the conditioning when they respond with a different corrective technique out of a reflexive reaction of their own, such as screaming "No!," or reaching out to grab the dog and physically correcting the dog for a further instance of malbehavior, rather than taking the moment to THINK about the best way to address the problem, and if necessary, search for a can or figure out some way to create an appropriate, brief, distraction, and follow through with the appropriate sound distraction and praise. (If you’re still following, you now understand why "traditional?" trainers confound their dogs, by jerking the lead and shouting NO. Someone ought to mention that, don’t you agree?) The process must be carried out using an alternate source of sound for the next interruption. An associate could be enlisted and instructed to clap their hands on signal to accomplish the desired sound interruption, a can with some pennies may be used, a coincidental. spontaneous occuring sound might serve us well. Just imagine HOWE your dog is going to react if you knew there’s going to be a peal of thunder, and you timed it so as to correspond to a failed come command??? We want the dog to exhaust all of the alternative malbehaviors he can pull out of his bag of tricks, in order for us to extinguish them EACH in turn. Any time we interact in a behavior by telling the dog no, or physically restrain or correct him, we are becoming part of the behavior, either as a player or competitor in the dog’s mischief. Using sound as a distraction must always be followed by immediate, prolonged, non physical praise. Interrupting a behavior with sound should never be associated with us, as in voicing "no," or telling the dog to "stop it." That’s going to cause animostiy, and teach the dog to control you. The behavior should NOT be distracted with any PHYSICAL INTERVENTION. We want the behavior to begin again, so that we may have another opportunity to properly address the behavior with another sound distraction and praise. That way, we can completely end a problem while the dog is THINKING about it, and we are prepared to address the issue before it becomes out of control. The sound must never occur twice in a row from the same direction. In other words, if you snapped your fingers in front of the dog to stop him from chewing on your shoelace, you’d praise him for five to fifteen seconds immediately upon snapping your fingers. The … read more »

Response:

Gee.. maybe your arent as stupid as you look…. Actually…seeing that she was already set at buying a Magic Box, I thought I would recommend yours…seeing as you post no-stop here and you would be available had she had any questions. Jen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello jen, > Why even bother Jerry… > Why shouldn’t I be NICE to you? > especially when you say I’m a fraud… > That’s because you probably are. You’re hoping she’ll buy my Doggy > Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) and be dissatisfied with it, so you > can ridicule me someMOORE. > But you’re a big spender with other people’s money. I’d have told > them HOWE to do the job FOR FREE, using the FREE INFORMATION in the > FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual compliments of the > BIOSOUND Scientific Elves. I’ve been talking myself OUT OF several > sales a week, by TEACHING people HOWE to handle their dog behavior > problems WITHOUT my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Think I > should take away the FREE TRAINING??? > But because the original poster isn’t the dog owner, they can simply > follow the sound distraction and praise techniques I’ll send them > now. You’d have known that, had you read the FREE Wits’ End Dog > Training Method manual available FOR FREE at > http://www.doggydoright.com > You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY > handle and train your dog using non force, non > confrontational, scientific and psychological conditioning > and deconditioning techniques in the Wits’ End Dog Training > Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com > The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided > compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an > alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). > For additional FREE help for any dog or cat > behavior questions, please call or write. > Sincerely, > Jerry Howe, > Director of Training, > Wits’ End Dog Training > Director of Research, > BIOSOUND Scientific > 1611 24th St > Orlando, FL 32805 > Fax: (208)460-4270 > Phone: 1-407-425-5092 > Phone: 1-888-BIOSOUND (1-888-246-7686) > http://www.doggydoright.com > Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. > -Francis Bacon- > There are terrible people who, instead of solving a > problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who > come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head > should, please, not hit at all. > -Nietzsche- > The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems > are learned qualities. > The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the > learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once > challenged, develop and continue to grow > to make him smarter. > The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on > praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and > timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, > constant corrections, and scolding. > -Jerry Howe- > Jen > > Thank you, Jen. > > > the doggydoright device claims to work… Its guarnteed for > life > > (moneyback) > > > and has a 2 year warrenty. > > > www.doggydoright.com > > > Give this a go, and let us know if it works. > > > Talk to Jerry if you have any questions, He’ll be more than > happy > > to help you > > > out;) > > > Jen > > > > My neighbour is most of the time away and he has a dog. A > small > > one that > > > > allways barks. It is really frustrating. I ask my neighbour > one > > to do > > > > someting about it but my neighbour is an very unpleasant > > persone. I would > > > > like to buy a barkerbreaker en place it on his window when > he is > > gone. My > > > > question is, will it work through a window? Some > barkerbreakers > > work up to > > > > 25 feet, but does it also work through walls and windows? I > > would like to > > > > solve it in a normal way, but if this wont work i will take > the > > dog down. > > > > Please help me.

Response:

Reward for Doggy Do Right info (weekly posting)

admin — Fri, 02 Mar 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >There is a link to a review from a purchaser of the ddr in > this group. > >Does he get the money? He said it didn’t work, and he was > returning it, but > >it does seem to exist. > He hasn’t applied for the reward. > — > Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at > Hello markie, > That’s because he is not on my records as a customer…

I know you lie about me jer so I figure you are lying about this as well. EdW http://Petloss.com

Response:

>There is a link to a review from a purchaser of the ddr in this group. >Does he get the money? He said it didn’t work, and he was returning it, but >it does seem to exist. > He hasn’t applied for the reward. > — > Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at

Hello markie, That’s because he is not on my records as a customer… You are a weasel. Margaret won your "reward." You reneged. You are not interested in proving anything. You are a koehler trainer, and you approve of HANGING dogs to rehabilitate them. "read koehler for content" is what you’ve said… WHAT CONTENT? BEATING DOGS? CHOKING DOGS? HANGING DOGS? Apr 25, 05:59 PM Margaret Hoffman Message 1 of 19 Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for about one year. It truly does work – at least on my Dobe, Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him personally work with Chelsea. His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog that you will bully, and I wouldn’t dream of hurting her. After Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture, ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash. She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long story and I won’t bore you with all the details, but suffice it to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us. Marge Hoffman P.S. You can send me the reward money, but I won’t sell you my DDR! Another poster with pit bulls and feral cat rescue writes: Hi Jerry, Well, we have been running Doggy Do Right for awhile (3 weeks) now and would appear that it is working. We are still on the lowest setting but my cat aggressive dog is now much calmer with the little fur balls getting near her. Not perfect but much improved! I do think that you need a more universal name as it appears to have drastically cut the spraying problem down that we have with our crowded cat situation. I am going to send an e-mail to Domesti-Cats club, Feral Cat Network and Space Cats Club as a lot of the members have some of the same problems with their cats. It has also lessened the number of nightly cat fights. Thanks, elaine Hi, Lowest setting to us is when the machine is on the least number of times during the day. We are going to try putting it on the next setting and see if that will completely solve our problems. We are holding our breath at this point on the spraying and hoping that BIOSOUND continues to work. Will let you know. Yes, feel free to use my post. If you sell to people with cat spray problems though you might want to recommend that they do what we did. We went through the house with BacTerminator an enzyme product that eats the cat urine. We have used Bac T. for a long time and it usually only slows them down for a week or two, so I know it is the BIOSOUND that has created the success we are seeing right now. We were resigned to constant cleaning and even then it was difficult to keep up with. I don’t know if you have forgotten but we have 19 cats. Elaine

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [This is not spam - I'm offering a reward, not a product or service.] > (NOTE: new info as of 23 June 2000: two more RPDB readers have each > kicked in another $20, and we’ve decided to split the total, so there > are now actually *two* rewards. As outlined in the emailed autoreply, > one person is already first in line for one of them. The other is up > Have you purchased a Doggy Do Right? Or do you know someone who has? > If so, you could earn yourself $40 just for proving it! > (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, take another look at the > newsgroup. The "inventor" only posts about a gazillion ads for this > thing every week, in addition to his other spew.) > The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, > except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the > first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, > but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed > to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the > entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the > other poster.) > And if you *don’t* wish to go through the hassle of proving that you > do indeed have a DDR, we’ll *buy* the thing outright. It’s like > recovering 40% of a worthless investment! the following > text string in your subject line: "sendme ddr reward terms" — case and > spaces are important. You’ll get an automatically-generated email > response laying everything out. > Aside: this offer has been in effect for months. And another regular > poster has actually *ordered* one of these things from Howe, by credit > card, only to have her order ignored well after the expiration of the > claimed 30-day delivery period. My theory that there’s no such thing > as a Doggy Do Right seems to be panning out. > — > Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at

ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw . Hello mark, You are a weasel. Margaret won your "reward." You reneged. You are not interested in proving anything. You are a koehler trainer, and you approve of HANGING dogs to rehabilitate them. "read koehler for content" is what you’ve said… WHAT CONTENT? BEATING DOGS? CHOKING DOGS? HANGING DOGS? Apr 25, 05:59 PM Margaret Hoffman Message 1 of 19 Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for about one year. It truly does work – at least on my Dobe, Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him personally work with Chelsea. His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog that you will bully, and I wouldn’t dream of hurting her. After Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture, ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash. She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long story and I won’t bore you with all the details, but suffice it to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us. Marge Hoffman P.S. You can send me the reward money, but I won’t sell you my DDR! Another poster with pit bulls and feral cat rescue writes: Hi Jerry, Well, we have been running Doggy Do Right for awhile (3 weeks) now and would appear that it is working. We are still on the lowest setting but my cat aggressive dog is now much calmer with the little fur balls getting near her. Not perfect but much improved! I do think that you need a more universal name as it appears to have drastically cut the spraying problem down that we have with our crowded cat situation. I am going to send an e-mail to Domesti-Cats club, Feral Cat Network and Space Cats Club as a lot of the members have some of the same problems with their cats. It has also lessened the number of nightly cat fights. Thanks, elaine Hi, Lowest setting to us is when the machine is on the least number of times during the day. We are going to try putting it on the next setting and see if that will completely solve our problems. We are holding our breath at this point on the spraying and hoping that BIOSOUND continues to work. Will let you know. Yes, feel free to use my post. If you sell to people with cat spray problems though you might want to recommend that they do what we did. We went through the house with BacTerminator an enzyme product that eats the cat urine. We have used Bac T. for a long time and it usually only slows them down for a week or two, so I know it is the BIOSOUND that has created the success we are seeing right now. We were resigned to constant cleaning and even then it was difficult to keep up with. I don’t know if you have forgotten but we have 19 cats. Elaine

Response:

Are you kidding? This bum doesn’t know enough not to hurt dogs to train them, and HE’S a professor of behavior… He’s fond of the koehler methods. Evidentially, he thinks HANGING dogs is more rehabilitative for behavior problems than scientific conditioning… He’s a stone, cold, loser, who punishes dogs because they are an affront to his authority… He’s a PUNK. Jerry. j;~}

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Marshall >Shouldn’t "ninnyboy" be added to the subject line, for you are >writing about Jerry? –Marshall >I have read rpdb for over three years. Consequently, I urge >newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb >regulars from whom I have learned much. They include: Amy Dahl, >Diane Blackman, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, >Nancy Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, Cindy Tittle Moore, >Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, >and Terri Willis. >Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of > http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer >"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, >and is thus a source of civilized delight."–William Safire (Mark Shaw) writes: >>>Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with??? >>If I could be reasonably certain that Howe would use my $100 to >>refill his meds, I might just do that. >>– >>Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at

ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with >>you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to >>bark violently at nothing right in your -Dave Barry > Since the header actually deals with Jerry shouldn’t you have the > fucking brains to know not to read it.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Shouldn’t "ninnyboy" be added to the subject line, for you are >writing about Jerry? –Marshall >I have read rpdb for over three years. Consequently, I urge >newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb >regulars from whom I have learned much. They include: Amy Dahl, >Diane Blackman, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, >Nancy Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, Cindy Tittle Moore, >Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, >and Terri Willis. >Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of > http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer >"Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, >and is thus a source of civilized delight."–William Safire >>Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with??? >If I could be reasonably certain that Howe would use my $100 to >refill his meds, I might just do that. >– >Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw >"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with >you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to >bark violently at nothing right in your ear." -Dave Barry

Since the header actually deals with Jerry shouldn’t you have the fucking brains to know not to read it.

Response:

How can you ask someone else to spend their hard earned money to prove a point if you won’ even do it?? And if you guys don’t like what Jerry Howe says ignore him. It will only get worse the more you talk about it. I have been lurking in this group for sometime and I don’t pay any attention to what Mr. Howe has to say. Jackie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with??? > If I could be reasonably certain that Howe would use my $100 to > refill his meds, I might just do that. > — > Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw > "Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with > you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to > bark violently at nothing right in your ear." -Dave Barry

Response:

>There is a link to a review from a purchaser of the ddr in this group. >Does he get the money? He said it didn’t work, and he was returning it, but >it does seem to exist.

He hasn’t applied for the reward. — Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw "Of course dogs can see television, but they have too much good sense to actually watch it." -Ed Gauci

Response:

>Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with???

If I could be reasonably certain that Howe would use my $100 to refill his meds, I might just do that. — Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw "Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to bark violently at nothing right in your ear." -Dave Barry

Response:

Shouldn’t "ninnyboy" be added to the subject line, for you are writing about Jerry? –Marshall I have read rpdb for over three years. Consequently, I urge newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I have learned much. They include: Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, Cindy Tittle Moore, Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, and Terri Willis. Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer "Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, and is thus a source of civilized delight."–William Safire – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with??? >If I could be reasonably certain that Howe would use my $100 to >refill his meds, I might just do that. >– >Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw >"Dogs feel very strongly that they should always go with >you in the car, in case the need should arise for them to >bark violently at nothing right in your ear." -Dave Barry

Response:

> Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with???

Uhm, because people have bought the thing, and he’s refused to ship it. Lynn K.

Response:

There is a link to a review from a purchaser of the ddr in this group. Does he get the money? He said it didn’t work, and he was returning it, but it does seem to exist.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with??? > Uhm, because people have bought the thing, and he’s refused to > ship it. > Lynn K.

Response:

> There is a link to a review from a purchaser of the ddr in this group. > Does he get the money? He said it didn’t work, and he was returning it, but > it does seem to exist.

Hello Rockflocks, Use you head… > (A purchaser of jerry’s $100 training device has posted a review > Buyer Beware!

That’s an unverified poster. I’ve only got two Phils as buyers of Doggy Do Rigtht (and KITTY WILL TOO), and neither of them are this facetious poster. Here’s a bona fide poster who wrote in to claim the REWARD offered by mark shaw. As I expected, he RENEGED on his deal… Margaret has MET me and TRAINED with me, and RELIES on her Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) to keep her dog CONTENT. Following her post, you’ll find another post from another satisfied Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) owner. That one is a post from the Doggy Do Right owner who advised me that DDR works on cat behavior problems like FIGHTING and SPRAYING… she has a feral cat rescue, and a couple of pit bulls. My black box DOES work like magick to quiet neighborhood barking dogs and stops feral cats from fighting and spraying… My Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) is 100% money back, satisfaction guaranteed FOREVER, and has a two year repair/replace warranty… Shelter and rescue people are entitled to a 25% discount regardless of their tax exempt status. That means that the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves are making their charitable discount possible with no incentive from Uncle Sam…and BIOSOUND Scientific pays all return shipping. So, if my DDR does not do for you what I promise, it will cost you NOTHING. BIOSOUND Scientific has been duly licensed in Orange County, FL, for two years, and has NEVER had a complaint. There’s as many more similar posts as you can possibly ask for. I resent using my good Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) clientele as ”testimonials," but Margaret wrote in to the news group herself, and Elaine was impressed enough with her Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) that she wants everyone else to benefit as she and her animals have. I’m sure you will want to verify the authenticity of the posters below, but unless you can find a respectable person to do that for you, I’m not interested in providing any personal information to the bums like yourself, who can’t control themselves from hurting dogs and are only interested in protecting their alleged right to hurt dogs to train them. Apr 25, 05:59 PM Margaret Hoffman Message 1 of 19 Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for about one year. It truly does work – at least on my Dobe, Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him personally work with Chelsea. His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog that you will bully, and I wouldn’t dream of hurting her. After Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture, ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash. She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long story and I won’t bore you with all the details, but suffice it to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us. Marge Hoffman P.S. You can send me the reward money, but I won’t sell you my DDR! Another poster with pit bulls and feral cat rescue writes: Hi Jerry, Well, we have been running Doggy Do Right for awhile (3 weeks) now and would appear that it is working. We are still on the lowest setting but my cat aggressive dog is now much calmer with the little fur balls getting near her. Not perfect but much improved! I do think that you need a more universal name as it appears to have drastically cut the spraying problem down that we have with our crowded cat situation. I am going to send an e-mail to Domesti-Cats club, Feral Cat Network and Space Cats Club as a lot of the members have some of the same problems with their cats. It has also lessened the number of nightly cat fights. Thanks, elaine Hi, Lowest setting to us is when the machine is on the least number of times during the day. We are going to try putting it on the next setting and see if that will completely solve our problems. We are holding our breath at this point on the spraying and hoping that BIOSOUND continues to work. Will let you know. Yes, feel free to use my post. If you sell to people with cat spray problems though you might want to recommend that they do what we did. We went through the house with BacTerminator an enzyme product that eats the cat urine. We have used Bac T. for a long time and it usually only slows them down for a week or two, so I know it is the BIOSOUND that has created the success we are seeing right now. We were resigned to constant cleaning and even then it was difficult to keep up with. I don’t know if you have forgotten but we have 19 cats. Elaine BIOSOUND Scientific Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) tm The Little Black Box That Solves Dogs’ Annoying Habits. If It Sounds Too Good To Be True, It’s Probably BIOSOUND Scientific Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding further information about the Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) device. There are special discounts available for humane societies, rescue organizations, and anyone working with rescue, regardless of affiliation with a bona-fide organization. Although I agree that more scientific documentation would be appreciated by some of us, I also realize, that any further information on the web site, might create confusion, anxiety, and undue concern for some individuals. Furthermore, due to the proprietary nature of BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology and research, I chose not to elaborate any further for the general public. The information I have shared with some of the department heads of behavioral science at several top universities was, by their own admission, over their heads, and out of their fields of study. (Physics, behavioral psychology, education, neurobiology, musicology, quantum theory, and other related fields.) The BIOSOUND Scientific Integrator, T. M. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO), is a high-frequency psycho acoustic behavior modification device, a copyright sound program, in some regards, like a Zen meditation or Gregorian Chant. BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology is based on proven scientific and psychological principles (state conditioned learning, the Frequency Following Response to facilitate brain wave entrainment, Pavlovian conditioning and de-conditioning, Neuro Linguistic Programming techniques like matching, pacing, anchoring, and flooding, the Relaxation Response, E.M.D.R., and accelerated learning techniques similar to those of Dr. Lozanov and the Tomatis effect. The recent discovery and acceptance of the "Mozart Effect," is also a substantiating factor. The "Mozart Effect" has been ordered to be made available to pediatric hospitals and new infants being born in the State of Tennessee. Volusia County, in the State of Florida has also recognized the benefit of the "Mozart Effect", and has instituted regulations that provide it, and require licensed day care facilities to use it during a mandatory minimum number of hours daily. The legislatures in the State of Tennessee and Voulsia County, FL were impressed enough to mandate Mozart for children in their jurisdictions. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) employs complex waveforms that dogs andd cats cannot resist listening to, and people cannot hear. Within two minutes, you will see dogs carefully listening and calm down, as they become entranced, their eyes following the signal. Doggy Do Rights’ (and KITTY WILL TOO) soothing waveform’s at first pace and are soon paced by the parasympathetic nervous system, entraining the brain to follow the waveforms. Within three minutes, most dogs will begin to yawn, perhaps take some water and come to a sit, due to the stimulation of endorphins. Before five minutes have elapsed, most dogs will lay down in a characteristic relaxed manner. You’ll see the movement of their eyes change from rhythmically pacing BIOSOUND Scientific’s waveforms, to now flickering in an alternating inward and upward direction, as the signals change in complexity. This indicates a mental state of arousal, while the body remains relaxed. Every traditional meditation technique strives for this "state of mindfulness". BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology changes behavior by stimulating information brain waveforms on the cerebral cortex, hollographically. Relaxation, entrainment, and the release of brain hormones override a situation or stimulus previously producing anxiety. In other words, we condition new, good information brain wave patterns in association with stressors. Subsequent introduction of such a conditioned stimulus causes the memory of those stressors to be flooded out with new, good information about a given stimulus. Since single brain neurons can not be inhibited and excited at the same time, by flooding the brain with a calming agent, be it narcotic, electric, or as in the case of BIOSOUND, sonic, causes the inhibiting neuro transmitters, such as endorphins, to be locked into receptor sites. This prevents or blocks out the effects of excitatory transmittors, which the limbic system is producing in reaction to anxiety producing external stimuli, such as thunder, etc. Given the correlation between personality patterns and functional brain wave states, it would reason that to alter brain wave … read more »

Response:

Why don’t you just buy the thing and get it over with???

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [This is not spam - I'm offering a reward, not a product or service.] > (NOTE: new info as of 23 June 2000: two more RPDB readers have each > kicked in another $20, and we’ve decided to split the total, so there > are now actually *two* rewards. As outlined in the emailed autoreply, > one person is already first in line for one of them. The other is up > Have you purchased a Doggy Do Right? Or do you know someone who has? > If so, you could earn yourself $40 just for proving it! > (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, take another look at the > newsgroup. The "inventor" only posts about a gazillion ads for this > thing every week, in addition to his other spew.) > The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, > except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the > first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, > but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed > to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the > entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the > other poster.) > And if you *don’t* wish to go through the hassle of proving that you > do indeed have a DDR, we’ll *buy* the thing outright. It’s like > recovering 40% of a worthless investment! > text string in your subject line: "sendme ddr reward terms" — case and > spaces are important. You’ll get an automatically-generated email > response laying everything out. > Aside: this offer has been in effect for months. And another regular > poster has actually *ordered* one of these things from Howe, by credit > card, only to have her order ignored well after the expiration of the > claimed 30-day delivery period. My theory that there’s no such thing > as a Doggy Do Right seems to be panning out. > — > Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw > "In order to keep a true perspective of one’s importance, everyone > should have a dog that will worship him and a cat that will ignore him." > -Dereke Bruce

Response:

BIOSOUND Scientific Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) tm The Little Black Box That Solves Dogs’ Annoying Habits If It Sounds Too Good To Be True, It’s Probably BIOSOUND Scientific Thank you for your recent inquiry regarding further information about the Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) device. There are special discounts available for humane societies, rescue organizations, and anyone working with rescue, regardless of affiliation, with a bona-fide organization. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) is 100% money back satisfaction guaranteed forever, and has a two year free repair/replacement warranty, and BIOSOUND Scientific pays all return shipping, so if it does not satisfy your needs, it will not cost you one cent. Although I agree that more scientific documentation would be appreciated by some of us, I also realize, that any further information on the web site, might create confusion, anxiety, and undue concern for some individuals. Furthermore, due to the proprietary nature of BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology and research, I chose not to elaborate any further for the general public. The information I have shared with some of the department heads of behavioral science at several top universities was, by their own admission, over their heads, and out of their fields of study. (Physics, behavioral psychology, education, neurobiology, musicology, quantum theory, and other related fields.) The BIOSOUND Scientific Integrator, T. M. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO), is a high-frequency psycho acoustic behavior modification device, a copyright sound program, in some regards, like a Zen meditation or Gregorian Chant. BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology is based on proven scientific and psychological principles (the Frequency Following Response to facilitate brain wave entrainment, Pavlovian conditioning and de-conditioning, Neuro Linguistic Programming techniques like matching, pacing, anchoring, and flooding, the Relaxation Response, and accelerated learning techniques similar to those of Dr. Lozanov and the Tomatis effect. The recent discovery and acceptance of the "Mozart Effect," is also a substantiating factor. The "Mozart Effect" has been ordered to be made available to pediatric hospitals and new infants being born in the State of Tennessee. Volusia County, in the State of Florida has also recognized the benefit of the "Mozart Effect", and has instituted regulations that provide it, and require licensed day care facilities to use it during a mandatory minimum number of hours daily. The legislatures in the State of Tennessee and Voulsia County, FL were impressed enough to mandate Mozart for children in their jurisdictions. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) employs complex waveforms that dogs cannot resist listening to, and people cannot hear. Within two minutes, you will see dogs carefully listening and calm down, as they become entranced, their eyes following the signal. Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO)’s soothing waveforms at first pace and are soon paced by the parasympathetic nervous system, entraining the brain to follow the waveforms. Within three minutes, most dogs will begin to yawn, perhaps take some water and come to a sit, due to the stimulation of endorphins. Before five minutes have elapsed, most dogs will lay down in a characteristic relaxed manner. You’ll see the movement of their eyes change from rhythmically pacing BIOSOUND Scientific’s waveforms, to now flickering in an alternating inward and upward direction, as the signals change in complexity. This indicates a mental state of arousal, while the body remains relaxed. Every traditional meditation technique strives for this "state of mindfulness". BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology changes behavior by stimulating information brain waveforms on the cerebral cortex, hollographically. Relaxation, entrainment, and the release of brain hormones override a situation or stimulus previously producing anxiety. In other words, we condition new, good information brain wave patterns in association with stressors. Subsequent introduction of such a conditioned stimulus causes the memory of those stressors to be flooded out with new, good information about a given stimulus. Since single brain neurons can not be inhibited and excited at the same time, by flooding the brain with a calming agent, be it narcotic, electric, or as in the case of BIOSOUND, sonic, causes the inhibiting neuro transmitters, such as endorphins, to be locked into receptor sites. This prevents or blocks out the effects of excitatory transmittors, which the limbic system is producing in reaction to anxiety producing external stimuli, such as thunder, etc. Given the correlation between personality patterns and functional brain wave states, it would reason that to alter brain wave patterns would facilitate the ability to allow more variations and changes in cognitive states and behavioral responses at the neuronal level. To simplify; we persuade our subject to listen to Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) (flip the switch), and fall into an extremely relaxed state (wait 2-5 min.). Present the stimulus, such as thunder, doorbell, etc. BIOSOUND Scientific’s technology constantly reassures the subject that everything is O.K., and the stimulus is now associated with calm acceptance. Further simulation will consequently stimulate thoughts of calm and well being, thus overriding or flooding the stimulus, which would normally institute a fight or flight reaction. I hope this has provided you with the additional information you requested. If so, please submit your order on the secure order form at http://www.doggydoright.com If it did not, or if you are uncomfortable with, or are unable to use you through the U.S. mail, or provide our toll free phone line to place your order with a live person. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Director of Research, BIOSOUND Scientific http://www.doggydoright.com

Response:

Hey boob, Margaret Hoffman won fair and square. Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (mark shaw) > writes: >The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, >except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the >first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, >but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed >to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the >entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the >other poster.) > Mark, > Add another $20 to that one. I’ll send the $20 when you > privately Email me the evidence. > Something tells me we won’t be laying out the bucks. > One cannot prove a figment of imagination > Caveat Emptor > Bob Maida > Dog Training/Problem Counseling since 1969 > Herndon, Virginia

Response:

>Mark, > Add another $20 to that one. I’ll send the $20 when you >privately Email me the evidence. > Something tells me we won’t be laying out the bucks. >One cannot prove a figment of imagination

I’ll raise the ante another $20, Mark. Same terms as Bob’s. Yikes! $20.00 US? That’s about a million Canuck. The reward is now $80 and climbing – almost a free black box. — –Matt. Rocky’s a Dog.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >writes: >The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, >except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the >first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, >but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed >to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the >entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the >other poster.) >Mark, > Add another $20 to that one. I’ll send the $20 when you >privately Email me the evidence. > Something tells me we won’t be laying out the bucks. >One cannot prove a figment of imagination >Caveat Emptor >Bob Maida >Dog Training/Problem Counseling since 1969 >Herndon, Virginia

You are all fools. Larry

Response:

writes: >The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, >except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the >first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, >but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed >to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the >entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the >other poster.)

Mark, Add another $20 to that one. I’ll send the $20 when you privately Email me the evidence. Something tells me we won’t be laying out the bucks. One cannot prove a figment of imagination Caveat Emptor Bob Maida Dog Training/Problem Counseling since 1969 Herndon, Virginia

Response:

And if the sound doesn’t calm them down you can hit them over the head with it. Jerry Howe (Mr Helper) (Mr. Nice Guy) (Honest Abe) Is mentally unstable and ABUSES dogs.he is worse than a SHOCK COLLAR…the proof

"If the dog is trained properly, he does not think of his protection training as fun and games at the big dog park. During a protection class, the dogs temperature should go up to 106 and he should have loose stools within two or three minutes of beginning the lesson." He tortures dogs till they have a temperature of 106 and have the runs. He is also a puppy mill breeder "I grew up in a professional breeding kennel. I’ve owned stud dogs who’ve sired hundreds of puppies. I’ve whelped thousands of puppies" HOWE disgusting you are JERRY Jerry Howe 626 Raleigh St Orlando, FL 32805 407-425-5092 Jerry Howe and his Doggy Do Wrong are being investigated for fraud. http://www.sound.net/~twillis/Harlan/concerns.html http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408W A List of Jerry’s References from the newsgroups "Jerry Howe is a freak… I have my doubts as to whether he has ever even SEEN a dog never mind trained one. " "That’s not a training method. It’s an abuse method. Pray tell, how does this asshole who has no business touching a dog, much less training one, achieve and control the temperature spike? " "Yeah, that’s rich. He’ll make a dog sick enough to die, ON PURPOSE, but ridicules choke chains?" "He’s rude, annoying, obnoxious, and every other word in the book" "Doesn’t he sell magic black boxes? " "That would be the same person…his magic black box will cure *any* behavior problem, don’t you know? " "It does? It must be used by whacking the dog over the head….I’d like him to demonstrate on himself… " "And yet do you notice that the second anyone talks about choke collars and prong collars and hanging, pinching or twisting he calls it animal abuse? And spiking a dogs temp like that isent? He is a lunatic… best to be ignored. " Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Well Jerry I don’t know who posted that abuse s___ but it sure as h___ weren’t me……. I ant that brave as to compromise my contract with the webtv system . Thank’s though for thinking that I would be that smart ! As for your product , Yes I know it works because the US Army , and the US Marine corps use the same methods for training their dogs for combat. I was in the Marines and know this for a fact. I never said that you method of training did not work . As I said I work in research and development and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know about the silent dog whistle that was used in WW 2 for training dogs. Best within reason and the information that is available to us all on the net there are other products that support your claims as well. In the state of Georgia they are trying to pass a law to make animal cruelty a felony to curb the abuse that has been on the rise in our state. I will vote for it to be active ASAP. If and when I get pissed off at some one I just stop reading their post. Due to the fact that I read this one , means I ant pissist yet. I may make a statement that sounds bad but it ant a gun and ant aimed at you . Its the opinion that I may hold at that time which may change as I am capable of learning new things daily as others do as well . I have only been here for a couple of weeks , In that time you have had good advice printed but staggered through out long complaints. How about the advice first then the complaints , good advice draws more attention to the complaints for opinion. On the my kids figured that out in 30 second , They had a good laugh but still complained. OH well . Good advice is needed so Later.

Response:

Hello Nathren, I take a person at their word until proven otherwise. Please tell me what your children found to be offensive, and I’ll correct my thinking and language appropriately. Sincerely, Everyone’s best friend, Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello nathren, > Well I have to say that it may appear that a premotion may be in here > some where but if I had purchased a device that would not work I sure > as > doggy doo wouldn’t tell any body just to claim a reward. > Your point is? > I would contact the better business bureau > They contacted ME. I’m not a member, as I have no need for an > arbritrator. > and then post the results of my experience . > You’re confusing me, but that’s O.K., I think you’re confused yourself. > From a resent post that I read Jerry needs a prayer just > to stay here with us. > You mean your own post that you sent in under the "disguise" of > Jerry I don’t know if you product works , > There’s LOTS you don’t know, chum. > but that ant why you are bumping your head against a wall, > Well genius, SMARTEN ME UP??? > You are trying to sale a product , > No, I’m trying to educate our dog abusers here on rpdb. > but in order to sale it your attitude has to be right. > You’re stupid enough to think I’m in her KILLING these bums, with the > intent of making them all satisfied Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) > customers? I could care less about their MONEY, all I want them to do > is to STOP HURTING DOGS some more. > Give simple answers and then advertise your product. > Your pals are advertising my product, NOT ME. I’m offering the FREE > Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual, and THAT costs ME sales of my > product… > See? I’m such an inept businessman, that I’m GIVING people INFORMATION > that will HOPEFULLY obviate the need for my for-sale product… SHEER > GENIUS! > And, my for sale product is 100% money back satisfaction guaranteed > FOREVER. > AND, there’s a 25% DISCOUNT for all shelter and rescue folks, > REGARDLESS of their tax exempt status… > Good luck Jerry Howe. > Thanks pal, but YOU KEEP IT. I don’t rely on LUCK, it’s abundant, but > chancy. I rely on the INFORMATION in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method > manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com > I suggest if you want to further harm me, you READ my poorly written, > unedited text, AND CHOKE ME WITH MY OWN WORDS. > Yours for fine dining, Jerry "Mama Cass" Howe.

Response:

Well I have to say that it may appear that a premotion may be in here some where but if I had purchased a device that would not work I sure as doggy doo wouldn’t tell any body just to claim a reward. I would contact the better business bureau and then post the results of my experience . From a resent post that I read Jerry needs a prayer just to stay here with us. Jerry I don’t know if you product works , but that ant why you are bumping your head against a wall, You are trying to sale a product , but in order to sale it your attitude has to be right. Give simple answers and then advertise your product. Good luck Jerry Howe.

Response:

Hello nathren,

> Well I have to say that it may appear that a premotion may be in here > some where but if I had purchased a device that would not work I sure as > doggy doo wouldn’t tell any body just to claim a reward.

Your point is? > I would contact the better business bureau

They contacted ME. I’m not a member, as I have no need for an arbritrator. > and then post the results of my experience .

You’re confusing me, but that’s O.K., I think you’re confused yourself. > From a resent post that I read Jerry needs a prayer just > to stay here with us.

You mean your own post that you sent in under the "disguise" of > Jerry I don’t know if you product works ,

There’s LOTS you don’t know, chum. > but that ant why you are bumping your head against a wall,

Well genius, SMARTEN ME UP??? > You are trying to sale a product ,

No, I’m trying to educate our dog abusers here on rpdb. > but in order to sale it your attitude has to be right.

You’re stupid enough to think I’m in her KILLING these bums, with the intent of making them all satisfied Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) customers? I could care less about their MONEY, all I want them to do is to STOP HURTING DOGS some more. > Give simple answers and then advertise your product.

Your pals are advertising my product, NOT ME. I’m offering the FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual, and THAT costs ME sales of my product… See? I’m such an inept businessman, that I’m GIVING people INFORMATION that will HOPEFULLY obviate the need for my for-sale product… SHEER GENIUS! And, my for sale product is 100% money back satisfaction guaranteed FOREVER. AND, there’s a 25% DISCOUNT for all shelter and rescue folks, REGARDLESS of their tax exempt status… > Good luck Jerry Howe.

Thanks pal, but YOU KEEP IT. I don’t rely on LUCK, it’s abundant, but chancy. I rely on the INFORMATION in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com I suggest if you want to further harm me, you READ my poorly written, unedited text, AND CHOKE ME WITH MY OWN WORDS. Yours for fine dining, Jerry "Mama Cass" Howe.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [This is not spam - I'm offering a reward, not a product or service.] > (NOTE: new info as of 23 June 2000: two more RPDB readers have each > kicked in another $20, and we’ve decided to split the total, so there > are now actually *two* rewards. As outlined in the emailed autoreply, > one person is already first in line for one of them. The other is up > Have you purchased a Doggy Do Right? Or do you know someone who has? > If so, you could earn yourself $40 just for proving it! > (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, take another look at the > newsgroup. The "inventor" only posts about a gazillion ads for this > thing every week, in addition to his other spew.) > The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, > except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the > first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, > but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed > to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the > entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the > other poster.) > And if you *don’t* wish to go through the hassle of proving that you > do indeed have a DDR, we’ll *buy* the thing outright. It’s like > recovering 40% of a worthless investment! > Email me for further details (note the antispam directions below). > Include the following text string in your subject line: "sendme ddr > reward terms" — case and spaces are important. You’ll get an > automatically-generated email response laying everything out. > Aside: this offer has been in effect for months. And another regular > poster has actually *ordered* one of these things from Howe, by credit > card, only to have her order ignored well after the expiration of the > claimed 30-day delivery period. My theory that there’s no such thing > as a Doggy Do Right seems to be panning out. > — > Mark Shaw http://www.topcities.com/personal/mshaw

Hello markie, Here’s a post sent to me from an applicant for your "reward." Following her post about you, is a correspondence she had with YOU. Following that is her original post she sent to me after using my Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) for a few weeks. Following THAT, is YET ANOTHER applicant for the reward… who has TRAINED with me. You’re a faker. Hi Jerry, As suspected his reward looks like a hoax. Please see message below that has been sent to Mark. Elaine Yes, I am ready to meet all the qualification criteria listed. The only variance is in the written instructions.. I had those emailed to be so instead of a picture I would prefer to email a copy to you. If you would prefer I can also scan the pics of DDR and email those as well.. Elaine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> According to your automatic response you need items mailed to you so > that you can verify the existence of DDR, however, there is no address listed. > Could you please email the address or would you like me to scan and email all > items to you? > You’re the first to express a serious interest in this, so you’ll have > to give me time to obtain a PO box. > First, please verify (by email) that you are prepared to meet *all* > the qualification criteria listed, and explain any variance in those > criteria you may need or any other issues you may have with it. > Once I have received that email, and we have agreed upon any > variances, I will rent a PO box and email you with the address. Meanwhile, at > that time you can start getting the items together and sending them. > PGP public key available at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw

A poster with pit bulls and feral cat rescue writes: Hi Jerry, Well, we have been running Doggy Do Right for awhile (3 weeks) now and would appear that it is working. We are still on the lowest setting but my cat aggressive dog is now much calmer with the little fur balls getting near her. Not perfect but much improved! I do think that you need a more universal name as it appears to have drastically cut the spraying problem down that we have with our crowded cat situation. I am going to send an e-mail to Domesti-Cats club, Feral Cat Network and Space Cats Club as a lot of the members have some of the same problems with their cats. It has also lessened the number of nightly cat fights. Thanks, Elaine Hi, Lowest setting to us is when the machine is on the least number of times during the day. We are going to try putting it on the next setting and see if that will completely solve our problems. We are holding our breath at this point on the spraying and hoping that BIOSOUND continues to work. Will let you know. Yes, feel free to use my post. If you sell to people with cat spray problems though you might want to recommend that they do what we did. We went through the house with BacTerminator an enzyme product that eats the cat urine. We have used Bac T. for a long time and it usually only slows them down for a week or two, so I know it is the BIOSOUND that has created the success we are seeing right now. We were resigned to constant cleaning and even then it was difficult to keep up with. I don’t know if you have forgotten but we have 19 cats. Apr 25, 05:59 PM Margaret Hoffman Message 1 of 19 Doggy Do Right and Jerry Howe I just recently looked at this newsgroup and I found it incredible. I do have a Doggy Do Right and have had it for about one year. It truly does work – at least on my Dobe, Chelsea. Chelsea was the unhappy recipient of several failed attempts at obedience training, both in a "class" environment and with a personal trainer. She is very high spirited and strong and, unfortunately, spoiled, since we are an older couple who doted on our dog. We were lucky enough to find Jerry Howe and to not only buy a Doggy Do Right, but to also have him personally work with Chelsea. His methods are wonderful and effective. Chelsea is not a dog that you will bully, and I wouldn’t dream of hurting her. After Jerry spent time with her, she no longer jumped on furniture, ate food off the counter, pulled me incessantly on the leash. She is calmer and we are all happier. Well, it is a very long story and I won’t bore you with all the details, but suffice it to say that Jerry Howe saved the day for our dog and for us. Marge Hoffman P.S. You can send me the reward money, but I won’t sell you my DDR!

Response:

[This is not spam - I'm offering a reward, not a product or service.] (NOTE: new info as of 23 June 2000: two more RPDB readers have each kicked in another $20, and we’ve decided to split the total, so there are now actually *two* rewards. As outlined in the emailed autoreply, one person is already first in line for one of them. The other is up Have you purchased a Doggy Do Right? Or do you know someone who has? If so, you could earn yourself $40 just for proving it! (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, take another look at the newsgroup. The "inventor" only posts about a gazillion ads for this thing every week, in addition to his other spew.) The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the other poster.) And if you *don’t* wish to go through the hassle of proving that you do indeed have a DDR, we’ll *buy* the thing outright. It’s like recovering 40% of a worthless investment! Email me for further details (note the antispam directions below). Include the following text string in your subject line: "sendme ddr reward terms" — case and spaces are important. You’ll get an automatically-generated email response laying everything out. Aside: this offer has been in effect for months. And another regular poster has actually *ordered* one of these things from Howe, by credit card, only to have her order ignored well after the expiration of the claimed 30-day delivery period. My theory that there’s no such thing as a Doggy Do Right seems to be panning out. — Mark Shaw http://www.topcities.com/personal/mshaw anti-spam: change ‘bang’ to ‘not’ in my domain name to email me.

Response:

[This is not spam - I'm offering a reward, not a product or service.] (NOTE: new info as of 23 June 2000: two more RPDB readers have each kicked in another $20, and we’ve decided to split the total, so there are now actually *two* rewards. As outlined in the emailed autoreply, one person is already first in line for one of them. The other is up Have you purchased a Doggy Do Right? Or do you know someone who has? If so, you could earn yourself $40 just for proving it! (If you don’t know what I’m talking about, take another look at the newsgroup. The "inventor" only posts about a gazillion ads for this thing every week, in addition to his other spew.) The thing is, I don’t think that the Doggy Do Right device even exists, except in the diseased mind of Jerry Howe. And I’m willing to pay the first person who can prove me wrong $20 in secure funds. Not only that, but another regular poster (who wishes to remain anonymous) has agreed to kick in another $20! It’s like getting a $40 rebate! (I’ll pay the entire $40 myself, and take care of collecting the remainder from the other poster.) And if you *don’t* wish to go through the hassle of proving that you do indeed have a DDR, we’ll *buy* the thing outright. It’s like recovering 40% of a worthless investment! text string in your subject line: "sendme ddr reward terms" — case and spaces are important. You’ll get an automatically-generated email response laying everything out. Aside: this offer has been in effect for months. And another regular poster has actually *ordered* one of these things from Howe, by credit card, only to have her order ignored well after the expiration of the claimed 30-day delivery period. My theory that there’s no such thing as a Doggy Do Right seems to be panning out. — Mark Shaw (and Maggie) PGP public key at ftp.netcom.com:/pub/ms/mshaw "In order to keep a true perspective of one’s importance, everyone should have a dog that will worship him and a cat that will ignore him." -Dereke Bruce

Response:

My ”gimmick" CURES dog and cat behavior problems, and is 100% money back, satisfaction guaranteed FOREVER, and has a two year full warranty and a 25% discount for shelter and rescue people REGARDLESS of their tax exempt status… Read all about it at http://www.doggydoright.com Bye! Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <1RsR4.3634 >You are a blatant liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. Jerry. > No Jerry you are. Not once have proven your claims. You have > readily admitted you are here to sell your little black box. You > have no proof you have ever trained a dog. You claim to be a > scientist, karate instructor, professional handler, and police > dog trainer. You have no creditable evidence at all execpt to > the fact that you are a BLATANT LIAR AND MENTAL CASE. Face it > Jerry you are a FRAUD selling a gimmick. That’s HOWE you make a > living > If you won’t rescue don’t breed > http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hello silvertonguEd, You are a liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. You attack me to divert attention and to defend dog abusers… Here’s proof: YOU SAID: BULL jer, ou ADDED IT if the first place to FRAUDULENTLY CHANGE THE MEANING in order to support YOUR LIE. THAT LIE BEING A DIRECT QUOTE from lyingfrostydahly’s forced fetch page..

> You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article,

I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing the parenthesis. > inside supposedly quoted material, without indicating that it > was your addition.

I suppose you’ve got a different definition. Let’s hear it… This ought to be excellent… > You are even sleazier than I thought.

You BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS to make them retrieve, and YOU call ME sleazy? Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. >> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say

"No! Hold!" use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear chuck the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while saying "No!">>> >> and pinch its ear if a dummy or bird is ever dropped. While

force-fetching is now complete, training has become more varied and interesting and we are sure you will want to continue.>>> HOWE does varying HOWE you are HURTING the dog make it more INTERESTING? >> Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 >> Pinehurst, NC 28370 (http://www.oakhillkennel.com)

Here’s the full text. Got Milk? http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? Aren’t those AMY DAHL’S OWN WORDS??? But SHE don’t DO THAT??? Is EVERYBODY going to ignore the character of these people who lie and cover up for each other? Here’s HOWE they get that happy excited to work look on the dogs… >> Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When

performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> ANY QUESTIONS? Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?: caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello silvertonguEd, > You are a liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. You attack me to divert > attention and to defend dog abusers… > Here’s proof: > YOU SAID: > BULL jer, ou ADDED IT if the first place to FRAUDULENTLY CHANGE THE > MEANING in order to support YOUR LIE. > THAT LIE BEING A DIRECT QUOTE from lyingfrostydahly’s forced fetch > page..

jer, I will not respond to anything you quote because you cannot be trusted to quote accurately. Besides, you are neo even remotely close to responding to what I posted. And as for who is the liar here jer: YOU ARE LYING when you claim I abuse animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim I defend abusing animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim I have pals who abuse animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim you are "ONLY interested in behavior problems here" YOU ARE LYING when you claim to have "HUNDREDS" (he used to claim thousands) of satisfied customers. If what you said had ANY truth in it there would be many links to your website from that pool of customers. The fact is there are NONE. This can be easily be verified by anyone & nothing you say can refute it. Where’s the LINKS jer?? Last but most important jer: YOU ARE LYING about Doggy Do Right. The Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT function as you claim. I refer to documentation that will demonstrate this fact: http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 EdW http://Petloss.com

Response:

You are a blatant liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello silvertonguEd, > You are a liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. You attack me to divert > attention and to defend dog abusers… > Here’s proof: > YOU SAID: > BULL jer, ou ADDED IT if the first place to FRAUDULENTLY CHANGE THE > MEANING in order to support YOUR LIE. > THAT LIE BEING A DIRECT QUOTE from lyingfrostydahly’s forced fetch > page.. > jer, I will not respond to anything you quote because you cannot be > trusted to quote accurately. > Besides, you are neo even remotely close to responding to what I posted. > And as for who is the liar here jer: > YOU ARE LYING when you claim I abuse animals. > YOU ARE LYING when you claim I defend abusing animals. > YOU ARE LYING when you claim I have pals who abuse animals. > YOU ARE LYING when you claim you are "ONLY interested in behavior > problems here" > YOU ARE LYING when you claim to have "HUNDREDS" (he used to claim > thousands) of satisfied customers. > If what you said had ANY truth in it there would be many links to your > website from that pool of customers. > The fact is there are NONE. This can be easily be verified by anyone & > nothing you say can refute it. > Where’s the LINKS jer?? > Last but most important jer: > YOU ARE LYING about Doggy Do Right. > The Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT function as you claim. > I refer to documentation that will demonstrate this fact: > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > EdW > http://Petloss.com

Response:

> You are a blatant liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. Jerry. > jer, NONE of your allegations are true. > Provide PROOF of ONE SINGLE LIE that I have posted. See, > you CANNOT!

All I did was parenthesize the definition of chin chuck… HOWE DO YOU DEFINE CHIN CHUCK, "with that ever ready right hand???" You are a liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. HERE’s PROOF:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Here’s HOWE ed earned his lying title: > lyingfrostydahly said: > > > You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > > > word "slap" into the article, > I said: > > I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing > > the parenthesis. > silvertonguEd SAID: > BULL > jer, ou ADDED IT if the first place to FRAUDULENTLY CHANGE THE > MEANING in order to support YOUR LIE. > THAT LIE BEING A DIRECT QUOTE from lyingfrostydahly’s > forced fetch page… > No jer, It was a MODIFIED QUOTE. MODIFIED by YOU jer. > That is why it was BULL. > jer, when you modified that quote to suit your own purposes, > YOU became the liar who’s quotes CANNOT EVER be trusted.

All I did was DEFINE CHIN CHUCK. > EdW

Here’s my "rant" you’ve snipped… PROVING lyingfrostydahly’s ABUSE AND LIES.

> You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article,

I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing the parenthesis. > inside supposedly quoted material, without indicating that it > was your addition.

I suppose you’ve got a different definition. Let’s hear it… This ought to be excellent… > You are even sleazier than I thought.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. >> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say

Response:

In article <1RsR4.3634 >You are a blatant liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. Jerry.

No Jerry you are. Not once have proven your claims. You have readily admitted you are here to sell your little black box. You have no proof you have ever trained a dog. You claim to be a scientist, karate instructor, professional handler, and police dog trainer. You have no creditable evidence at all execpt to the fact that you are a BLATANT LIAR AND MENTAL CASE. Face it Jerry you are a FRAUD selling a gimmick. That’s HOWE you make a living If you won’t rescue don’t breed http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

> You are a blatant liar, a beggar, and a MENTAL CASE. Jerry.

jer, NONE of your allegations are true. Provide PROOF of ONE SINGLE LIE that I have posted. See, you CANNOT! On the other hand: YOU ARE LYING when you claim I abuse animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim I defend abusing animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim I have pals who abuse animals. YOU ARE LYING when you claim you are "ONLY interested in behavior problems here" YOU ARE LYING when you claim to have "HUNDREDS" (down from thousands) of satisfied customers. If what you said had ANY truth in it there would be many links to your website from that pool of customers. The fact is there are NONE. This can be easily be verified by anyone & nothing you say can refute it. (Where’s the LINKS jer??) In addition, YOU ARE LYING about Doggy Do Right. The Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT function as you claim. I refer to documentation that will demonstrate this fact: http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 EdW http://Petloss.com

Response:

> You can say that. I’ve got hundreds of satisfied Doggy Do Right (and > KITTY WILL TOO) users who’ll tell you it works just as I say it does, > and nobody who has done business with me has any complaints. Jerry.

I would have to have better evidence than your say-so jer. You cannot refute the fact that NOT A SINGLE ONE of your "thousands" of training customers, DDR purchasers, or users of your free manual has been satisfied enough to put a link to your site from their homepage. No links = no satisfied customers. Where’s the LINKS jer??? > P.S. You are a liar and a beggar. Your only motive is to try to > discredit me because I’ve EXPOSED your vicious pals who hurt dogs to > train them.

Not a word of truth in what you say jer. Besides, I don’t have to discredit you. You do a fine job of it all by yourself. EdW http://Petloss.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> jer, > Big deal. It doesn’t prove that it works. > You can sell a 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER dog > turd > & it will still be a piece of crap with a guarantee. > EdW > http://Petloss.com > > Hey, MORON? > > What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER > don’t > > you understand? Jerry. > > > Jer, > > > Your name-calling will not divert attention from the fact that > your > > > Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT > > > function as you claim. > > > I refer you to the unrefuted documentation that will > demonstrate > > this > > > fact. > > > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > > > EdW > > > http://Petloss.com > > > > Hey MORON, Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) > > >

Response:

>Your pal ed is a liar and a beggar. He defends dog abusers, that’s >his only motive for attacking me… >Try this: lying >piece of smegma!"

Well gee Jerry, Ed is just speaking the truth If you won’t rescue don’t breed http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Your pal ed is a liar and a beggar. He defends dog abusers, > that’s >his only motive for attacking me… >Try this: > lying >piece of smegma!" > Well gee Jerry, Ed is just speaking the truth > If you won’t rescue don’t breed > http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm

This is what is upsetting ed and YOU: Hello doc,

writes: >To those others who may read this post, if you would rather I > ignore Mr. Howe. I will succumb to your requests because I > would rather be valued on this newsgroup than filtered or > hated. But, please know this is just meant to be > entertainment for me (that is my rants against Mr. Howe). >Thanks, >John M. > Dear John, > Yes, please spare us. > We understand your motivation but it would be best if you > simply killfiled Jerry.

I don’t think you do, doc. Perhaps I’m the one that’s been wrong about you. I just occurred to me why YOU are so determined to undermine the EXCELLENT information I offer here…. It’s because both you and john are operating under the same conditions… You are BOTH embarrassed in front of your peers because you BOTH scoffed at my information, and NOW you are ANGRY because there are many people who now see and understand that you are both wrong in your accepting HURTING dogs to train them… You endorse koehler, which means you must be prepared to HANG the dog if he objects to your increasing PUNISHMENT. That’s where john is headed because he can’t lay off jerking and choking his dog. > We’re all going to die and eventually be forgotten.

We are all going to die. YOU will be forgotten. I won’t. > Let us forget Jerry while he is alive.

In fact, YOU will be forgotten in this lifetime… and I’m gonna see to it… > –Marshall > http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

> I urge newbies to ignore Jerry Howe’s abusive, attention seeking > posts and to read:

http://www.sound.net/~twillis/Harlan/concerns.html Yes doc, criticize me, and defend this:

> You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article,

I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing the parenthesis. > inside supposedly quoted material, without indicating that it > was your addition.

I suppose you’ve got a different definition. Let’s hear it… This ought to be excellent… > You are even sleazier than I thought.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. >> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Hey, MORON? > >What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED >> FOREVER don’t you understand? Jerry. > Nice job of marketing there Jerry….especially calling > someone a Moron who has done as much for animal lovers > has Ed has. I suggest you go to his web site where he isn’t > trying to rip off pet owners for $100. The site is beggar’s link > deleted… > Maybe then you will realize who much of an ASSHOLE you > really look like. > If you won’t rescue don’t breed > http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm > Hey powerpoophead, > Your pal ed is a liar and a beggar. He defends dog abusers, that’s > his only motive for attacking me…

Jer, I have NEVER defended dog abusers or abusers of ANY animal. YOU made that one up yourself. > Try this: > piece of smegma!"

Yup. I said it. So what? At the time I meant it too. And the only reason it is on the NG now jer is YOU like to keep posting it. So what do I care. Post away jer. > And this is what he defends:

That is a TOTAL LIE jer. I do not defend ANYONE here. Not even YOU. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article, > I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing the > parenthesis. > inside supposedly quoted material, without indicating that it > was your addition. > I suppose you’ve got a different definition. Let’s hear it… This > ought to be excellent… > You are even sleazier than I thought. > You BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS to make them retrieve, and YOU call ME > sleazy? > Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. > YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog. > YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. > ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper > wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog. > YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less > dogs may require you to progress to striking them more > sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive. > YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. >>> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say > "No! Hold!" use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear > chuck the dog under the chin > with your ever-ready right hand while saying "No!">>> >>> and pinch its ear if a dummy or bird is ever dropped. While > force-fetching is now complete, training has become more > varied and interesting and we are sure you will want to > continue.>>> > HOWE does varying HOWE you are HURTING the dog make it more > INTERESTING? >>> Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 > >> Pinehurst, NC 28370 (http://www.oakhillkennel.com) > Here’s the full text. Got Milk? > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? > Aren’t those AMY DAHL’S OWN WORDS??? But SHE don’t DO THAT??? > Is EVERYBODY going to ignore the character of these people who lie > and cover up for each other? > Here’s HOWE they get that happy excited to work look on the dogs… >>> Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When > performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the > fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been > carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each > dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> > ANY QUESTIONS? > Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more > complaints to my personal email than any other controversial > post I have made to date, bar none?: > caveat > If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would > rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you > have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke > him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, > hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are > appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, > or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your > dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. > Sincerely, > Jerry Howe, > Wits’ End Dog Training > http://www.doggydoright.com > Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. > -Francis Bacon- > There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, > bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who > ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. > -Nietzsche- > The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned > qualities. > The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning > centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, > develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. > The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split > seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless > hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. > -Jerry Howe

Response:

You can say that. I’ve got hundreds of satisfied Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) users who’ll tell you it works just as I say it does, and nobody who has done business with me has any complaints. Jerry. P.S. You are a liar and a beggar. Your only motive is to try to discredit me because I’ve EXPOSED your vicious pals who hurt dogs to train them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> jer, > Big deal. It doesn’t prove that it works. > You can sell a 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER dog turd > & it will still be a piece of crap with a guarantee. > EdW > http://Petloss.com > Hey, MORON? > What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER don’t > you understand? Jerry. > > Jer, > > Your name-calling will not divert attention from the fact that your > > Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT > > function as you claim. > > I refer you to the unrefuted documentation that will demonstrate > this > > fact. > > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > > EdW > > http://Petloss.com > > > Hey MORON, Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) > >

Response:

>Hey, MORON? >What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER don’t >you understand? Jerry.

Nice job of marketing there Jerry….especially calling someone a Moron who has done as much for animal lovers has Ed has. I suggest you go to his web site where he isn’t trying to rip off pet owners for $100. The site is http://petloss.com/ Maybe then you will realize who much of an ASSHOLE you really look like. If you won’t rescue don’t breed http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hey, MORON? >What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED > FOREVER don’t you understand? Jerry. > Nice job of marketing there Jerry….especially calling > someone a Moron who has done as much for animal lovers > has Ed has. I suggest you go to his web site where he isn’t > trying to rip off pet owners for $100. The site is beggar’s link > deleted… > Maybe then you will realize who much of an ASSHOLE you > really look like. > If you won’t rescue don’t breed > http://members.aol.com/PowerROTTS/index.htm

Hey powerpoophead, Your pal ed is a liar and a beggar. He defends dog abusers, that’s his only motive for attacking me… Try this:

piece of smegma!" And this is what he defends:

> You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article,

I took it out to be FAIR. It was an oversight not initialing the parenthesis. > inside supposedly quoted material, without indicating that it > was your addition.

I suppose you’ve got a different definition. Let’s hear it… This ought to be excellent… > You are even sleazier than I thought.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. >> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say

Response:

Hey, MORON? What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER don’t you understand? Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jer, > Your name-calling will not divert attention from the fact that your > Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT > function as you claim. > I refer you to the unrefuted documentation that will demonstrate this > fact. > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > EdW > http://Petloss.com > Hey MORON, Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) >

Response:

jer, Big deal. It doesn’t prove that it works. You can sell a 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER dog turd & it will still be a piece of crap with a guarantee. EdW http://Petloss.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hey, MORON? > What part of 100% money back satisfaction GUARANTEED FOREVER don’t > you understand? Jerry. > Jer, > Your name-calling will not divert attention from the fact that your > Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT > function as you claim. > I refer you to the unrefuted documentation that will demonstrate > this > fact. > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > EdW > http://Petloss.com > > Hey MORON, Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) >

Response:

Jer, Your name-calling will not divert attention from the fact that your Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT function as you claim. I refer you to the unrefuted documentation that will demonstrate this fact. http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 EdW http://Petloss.com > Hey MORON, Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO)

Response:

> Sorry silvertonguEd, > My dog training advice works as I say it does, despite everyone’s > lies and objections…

jer, I KNOW you lie about what I have posted so there is NO REASON for me to believe ANYTHING you say. Besides you NEVER provide anything to refute the evidence that your Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT function as you claim. I refer you to documentation that will demonstrate this fact. http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 EdW http://Petloss.com Where’s the LINKS jer?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) is 100% money back > satisfaction guaranteed FOREVER, and has a two year full > repair/replace warranty, and BIOSOUND Scientific offers all shelter > and rescue people a 25% DISCOUNT regardless of their tax exempt > status… > What’s you complaint, except you like to hurt dogs and defend people > who do? > This isn’t a Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) > http://www.doggydoright.com problem silvertonguEd, it’s a DOG ABUSER > DISTRACTION technique of YOURS… Jerry. > A note to any interested reader, jer’s Doggy Do Right gizmo CANNOT > function as jer claims. > I refer you to documentation that will demonstrate this fact. > http://deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=516286408 > EdW > http://Petloss.com > > Product description and > warranty > > Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) tm > > The little black box that makes dogs do > right > > If it sounds too good to be true, it

whats wrong with my dog…

admin — Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Ok, yesterday im watching TV, my dog walks right up to me and starts pissing… like right next to me that it practically splashes onto me. My dog can walk in and out of the house on its own and it never done this before… I also know that dogs can hold it in so Its not that she HAS to take a pee… ok and then today I’m sitting in my chair browsing the net and my dog again walks right up to me, squats and lays a friggin river of piss next to my feet… Each time I freak out and scold her for what she did… She gives me this "oops" look and although I don’t hit her I forcefully grab her by the neck, point to the puddle and say "NO!"… I’m really puzzled to why the heck she does this. What does it mean?

Response:

Lets see, both times she did this and you were doing something that had absolutely nothing to do with time and attention to your animal, right? You mentioned that she can come and go as she pleases to relieve herself, but do you walk and run her? Dogs need alot of attention, and correcting her like that will get you nowhere, it will only piss her off even more. Give us some more details, k?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok, yesterday im watching TV, my dog walks right up to me and starts > pissing… like right next to me that it practically splashes onto me. > My dog can walk in and out of the house on its own and it never done > this before… I also know that dogs can hold it in so Its not that > she HAS to take a pee… ok and then today I’m sitting in my chair > browsing the net and my dog again walks right up to me, squats and > lays a friggin river of piss next to my feet… Each time I freak out > and scold her for what she did… She gives me this "oops" look and > although I don’t hit her I forcefully grab her by the neck, point to > the puddle and say "NO!"… I’m really puzzled to why the heck she > does this. What does it mean?

Response:

> Ok, yesterday im watching TV, my dog walks right up to me and starts > pissing… like right next to me that it practically splashes onto me. > My dog can walk in and out of the house on its own and it never done > this before…

Your very first step would be to collect a urine sample and go off to your vets. Most likely there is a medical problem. Only after that is completely ruled out can you look at behavioral issues. — Toni www.irish-wolfhounds.com Click the "Update on Steve"

Response:

Toni’s right……. I suppose I assume that everyone has enough gray matter goin on to take the dog to the vet when something changes that can otherwise not be accounted for and there has been no extreme changes in the dog’s envronment or diet. (LOL)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok, yesterday im watching TV, my dog walks right up to me and starts > pissing… like right next to me that it practically splashes onto me. > My dog can walk in and out of the house on its own and it never done > this before… > Your very first step would be to collect a urine sample and go off to your > vets. > Most likely there is a medical problem. > Only after that is completely ruled out can you look at behavioral issues. > — > Toni > www.irish-wolfhounds.com > Click the "Update on Steve"

Response:

Ditto…GG – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok, yesterday im watching TV, my dog walks right up to me and starts > pissing… like right next to me that it practically splashes onto me. > My dog can walk in and out of the house on its own and it never done > this before… > Your very first step would be to collect a urine sample and go off to your > vets. > Most likely there is a medical problem. > Only after that is completely ruled out can you look at behavioral issues. > — > Toni > www.irish-wolfhounds.com > Click the "Update on Steve"

Response:

> Ditto…GG

Likewise. That’s another good example of WHY we have no damn business punishing or scolding dogs for their behavior. They’re supposed to do things because they’re animals. We’re SUPPOSED to FIGURE OUT better ways to deal with things because we’re SUPPOSED to be the ones with the opposable thumb and the bigger brain… Let’s PROVE it. Start using them, people… Here’s a good example of why our Gang Of Thugs are lying, dog abusing, cowards: "The first step of correction is to confine the dog closely in a part of the house when you go away, so that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you no other course than to punish him sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences. If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these "backsliders" will think they’re winning and will continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he’s made so you can come back at twenty minute intervals and punish him again for the same thing. In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the light spanking that some owners seem to think is adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog, as well as the house, if you really pour it on him." Ask yourself "WHY DOESN’T JERRY HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?" And then just answer "BECAUSE JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS WITHOUT HURTING THEM." And THEN SAY OUT LOUD: "IGNORE JERRY, HE’S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS." You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confronatational, scientific and psychological methods, in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe. j;~}

Response:

> Ok, yesterday im watching TV, my dog walks right up to me and starts > pissing… >What does it mean?

Damien, I gather from what you wrote that your dog is a housebroken adult, and not recently spayed. (A small number of female dogs develop incontinence after spaying.) It probably means that she’s got either a bladder infection or some sort of kidney problem, and can’t help herself. The fact that she’s doing it next to you may be coincidental, or may mean that she’s asking *you* for help. Get her to a vet right away, and please DON’T yell at her any more. Scolding her for something she can’t help will only make her afraid of you and increase the stress of the illness (assuming there is one). Also, next time she might go hide the fact that she’s peeing instead of coming to you for help. If the vet doesn’t find a physical problem, then you need to figure out what is different in your life or in your environment; *something* caused it, and I can assure you it wasn’t "spite" on the dog’s part. (It could be something really simple, such as the dog being scared of something that was outside.) Let us know what you find out, Ok? Sarah (Pack Leader and Mamcat) Brenin, CGC, AD, S-OAC, S-OJC, O-OGC, EJC, 1/2 EAC (formerly the Puppy From Hell) Gwydion, Purring Monitor Ornament and Wicked Cat Extraordinaire Morag, the Levitating Lurcher Landshark, NAC, O-NJC, NGC Robyn the Meezer-Brat, Inspector of Human Activity & Intrepid Door-Climber we can be seen at: http://ememories.com/pf/default.asp?PF=98A197877B92 New (and funny) pics at: http://www.ememories.com/pf/default.asp?PF=949D9283B0C2A393

Response:

I suspect a clinical deficiency of some bogus electronic noisemaker. Now if only there was some way to buy one of those on the net. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Ok, yesterday im watching TV, my dog walks right up to me and starts > pissing… like right next to me that it practically splashes onto me. > My dog can walk in and out of the house on its own and it never done > this before… I also know that dogs can hold it in so Its not that > she HAS to take a pee… ok and then today I’m sitting in my chair > browsing the net and my dog again walks right up to me, squats and > lays a friggin river of piss next to my feet… Each time I freak out > and scold her for what she did… She gives me this "oops" look and > although I don’t hit her I forcefully grab her by the neck, point to > the puddle and say "NO!"… I’m really puzzled to why the heck she > does this. What does it mean?

Response:

> I suspect a clinical deficiency of some bogus electronic noisemaker. > Now if only there was some way to buy one of those on the net.

Now is that a comment on the most frequently shilled scam in here, or is it an elegant way of saying "I smell troll shit?"

Response:

I agree with the others here. Take her immediately to the vet. Once time my cat did this behavior, we were perplexed – just like you. I went to the kitty manual ("You and Your Cat") and it said there what folks are saying here. I took her to the vet, and sure enough, she had cystitis in her bladder. A short course of antibiotics and she was back to regular. Marie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Ok, yesterday im watching TV, my dog walks right up to me and starts > pissing… like right next to me that it practically splashes onto me. > My dog can walk in and out of the house on its own and it never done > this before… I also know that dogs can hold it in so Its not that > she HAS to take a pee… ok and then today I’m sitting in my chair > browsing the net and my dog again walks right up to me, squats and > lays a friggin river of piss next to my feet… Each time I freak out > and scold her for what she did… She gives me this "oops" look and > although I don’t hit her I forcefully grab her by the neck, point to > the puddle and say "NO!"… I’m really puzzled to why the heck she > does this. What does it mean?

Response:

>Ok, yesterday im watching TV, my dog walks right up to me and starts >pissing… like right next to me that it practically splashes onto me. >My dog can walk in and out of the house on its own and it never done >this before…

OK, a change in behavior like that for a normally housetrained dog, haul the dog off to the vet, pronto. Probably some kind of urinary tract infection. –Cindy —

Response:

Ok, you guys got me worried, which I thank you all, and I took her to my cousin who is a vet and after exhausting efforts in getting a urine sample, it is not a urinary tract infection. I would’ve killed myself if it was after the way I treated my dog. So now I’m thinking it might be some behavioral problem… To be honest I haven’t been spending much time with her after I changed my work schedule. Maybe an hour or two after getting back home and I usually let her inside the house until morning then I let her outside for the day. Coincidentally, my parents have been staying at my place and they absolutely hate my dog and totally disapprove of it being in the house (which is theirs, they bought a place in utah and I live here now) I sneak her inside since its been raining pretty hard lately I know my mom would just throw it outside in the rain if she found out (they really really hate my dog, its some religious thing or whatever that humans shouldn’t live with animals) but anyway they’re leaving next week so… I dunno… It only happened twice so far… Its not an infection… its odd that she’ll pee right next to me, practically on me when she knows she’s gonna get scolded. I’m just hoping she won’t do it again..

Response:

> Ok, you guys got me worried, which I thank you all, and I took her to > my cousin who is a vet and after exhausting efforts in getting a urine > sample, it is not a urinary tract infection.

Well, that’s a good sign. I would’ve killed myself > if it was after the way I treated my dog.

Well, you shouldn’t think that just because it’s not a UTI, you shouldn’t have scolded her or treated her badly. She needs you to love her and be kind and attentive to her, all the time. If you get upset, go somewhere she can’t follow and let out your frustration somewhere else. >So now I’m thinking it might > be some behavioral problem… To be honest I haven’t been spending > much time with her after I changed my work schedule.

This is part of it, I think, But more so… >Coincidentally, my > parents have been staying at my place and they absolutely hate my dog > and totally disapprove of it being in the house (which is theirs, > they bought a place in utah and I live here now) I sneak her inside > since its been raining pretty hard lately I know my mom would just > throw it outside in the rain if she found out (they really really hate > my dog, its some religious thing or whatever that humans shouldn’t > live with animals) but anyway they’re leaving next week so…

I believe *this* is why she has been doing this. Because of the stress of your parents being there, and their feelings about the dog. She’s looking to you for some attention, and is doing this right in front of you to get it. Any attention is better than none, and some dogs would rather be scolded than be ignored. Sad, but true. > I > dunno… It only happened twice so far… Its not an infection… its > odd that she’ll pee right next to me, practically on me when she knows > she’s gonna get scolded. I’m just hoping she won’t do it again..

She doesn’t care that you’re ’scolding’ her, (and you should NOT scold her again, if it happens anymore, EVER, no matter what the reason), she only knows she’s getting that needed attention from you, the *only* one she looks to for care and affection. It’s a sad sign that she has come to this to get some of your time for her, but it’s a call for help in any case. Think about this. We have our daily lives, filled with plenty of other things. They have ONLY us, they watch our every move, they listen to everything we say, they are so one-sighted, that everything in their world is about US. Yeah, they may play alone for a bit, but they really only have us as their center of their world. And hers is being *drastically* changed with your parents there, and especially with their attitude about her. She knows this, and is acting out to show her fear, displeasure, anxiety, whatever. And she’s doing it *right in front of you* because she is getting your undivided attention then. So, stop the scolding, spend more time walking her whenever your parents are there, and make sure she gets extra attention then. How long do they usually stay? Is there anyone else she can stay with while your parents are visiting? This may work out better than tossing her in the yard, especially in the rain and this cold time of year. Poor thing, she had no other way to convey her feelings. They don’t do things like this for no reason. At least not out of spite, but to get you to interact with her. So go play with her, take her on a long walk, to the park, wherever you two have the most fun, and where she is happiest. Which, to a dog, is in *your* heart. MaryBeth

Response:

>Coincidentally, my >parents have been staying at my place and they absolutely hate my dog >and totally disapprove of it being in the house

And this may be what’s wrong with your dog. :} I wouldn’t be surprised if the problems cleared up after the people who are making her uncomfortable disappear. Learn How to Can Spam http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml http://www.spamfree.org/ WHITE HAT OF THE MONTH – Nominate At: http://www.whitehat.com/whotm/ Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok, you guys got me worried, which I thank you all, and I took her to > my cousin who is a vet and after exhausting efforts in getting a urine > sample, it is not a urinary tract infection. > Well, that’s a good sign. >I would’ve killed myself > if it was after the way I treated my dog. > Well, you shouldn’t think that just because it’s not a UTI, you >shouldn’t have scolded her or treated her badly. She needs you to love her >and be kind and attentive to her, all the time. If you get upset, go >somewhere she can’t follow and let out your frustration somewhere else.

I’d never put out my personal anger on my dog. Actually the only thing that makes me happy is my dog. Its completely true. If I had a terrible day, just seeing my dog practically melts it all away. A true stress reliever… The reason I scolded her was that I thought that you’re supposed to punish dogs when they do something bad. Never hit them but in a stern voice say NO while holding onto her.For instance when I’m playing with her and she starts getting rough or starts nipping at my clothes I would punish her by telling her "NO!" then she somewhat knows that she shouldn’t do it… I guess.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->So now I’m thinking it might > be some behavioral problem… To be honest I haven’t been spending > much time with her after I changed my work schedule. > This is part of it, I think, But more so… >Coincidentally, my > parents have been staying at my place and they absolutely hate my dog > and totally disapprove of it being in the house (which is theirs, > they bought a place in utah and I live here now) I sneak her inside > since its been raining pretty hard lately I know my mom would just > throw it outside in the rain if she found out (they really really hate > my dog, its some religious thing or whatever that humans shouldn’t > live with animals) but anyway they’re leaving next week so… > I believe *this* is why she has been doing this. > Because of the stress of your parents being there, and their feelings >about the dog. She’s looking to you for some attention, and is doing this >right in front of you to get it. Any attention is better than none, and some >dogs would rather be scolded than be ignored. Sad, but true.

I never thought of this… I guess it could be true. Sometimes when I tell her NO and scold her, she would try to rub up to me and we would more or less "make up"… so in a way its not really punishment… She’s not a bad dog and doesn’t misbehave much at all and I don’t scold her often maybe once every month so I didn’t really notice these subtle things… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I > dunno… It only happened twice so far… Its not an infection… its > odd that she’ll pee right next to me, practically on me when she knows > she’s gonna get scolded. I’m just hoping she won’t do it again.. > She doesn’t care that you’re ’scolding’ her, (and you should NOT scold >her again, if it happens anymore, EVER, no matter what the reason), she only >knows she’s getting that needed attention from you, the *only* one she looks >to for care and affection. > It’s a sad sign that she has come to this to get some of your time for >her, but it’s a call for help in any case. > Think about this. We have our daily lives, filled with plenty of other >things. They have ONLY us, they watch our every move, they listen to >everything we say, they are so one-sighted, that everything in their world >is about US. Yeah, they may play alone for a bit, but they really only have >us as their center of their world. And hers is being *drastically* changed >with your parents there, and especially with their attitude about her. > She knows this, and is acting out to show her fear, displeasure, >anxiety, whatever. And she’s doing it *right in front of you* because she is >getting your undivided attention then. > So, stop the scolding, spend more time walking her whenever your parents >are there, and make sure she gets extra attention then. How long do they >usually stay? Is there anyone else she can stay with while your parents are >visiting? This may work out better than tossing her in the yard, especially >in the rain and this cold time of year. > Poor thing, she had no other way to convey her feelings. They don’t do >things like this for no reason. At least not out of spite, but to get you to >interact with her. >So go play with her, take her on a long walk, to the park, wherever you two >have the most fun, and where she is happiest. Which, to a dog, is in *your* >heart. >MaryBeth

Thanks alot MaryBeth for all the great insight you have brought upon me. You’re so right about us being their life. especially true when you live mostly alone without any kids or other family members. Jessie is on the floor laying down to the right of me at the moment, sniffing at the floor… I look down at her, and she without moving her head looks up at me and perks up her ears a bit… I can’t help but feel so much emotion… for all the help she has given me I really haven’t given back enough. I’m gonna go for a drive with her now… she likes that… thanks again

Response:

>For instance >when I’m playing with her and she starts getting rough or starts >nipping at my clothes I would punish her by telling her "NO!" then she >somewhat knows that she shouldn’t do it… I guess..

I’m finding that my puppy responds best to different types of corrections for different behaviors. When she gets too rough in play, I say "Ow!" like I’m really hurt, and stop the play. She always reacts dramatically to that, sitting back and looking intensely (as only BC’s can :} into my face to make sure I’m okay, and then switching to kissing instead of nipping. She’s stopped biting faces altogether, which was a big problem her first week with us. (Though she just started recently nibbling gently on lips, which hurts no matter how gentle. :} I trained her out of nipping at my clothes when I’m trying to get dressed by making a strange noise that sounded like "PHTLAP!" I’ve only had to do it twice – she lets me get dressed unmolested now. As for chewing things she’s not supposed to, I make a displeased "Unh" noise, and immediately substitute one of her chew toys and praise her for taking it. For a 4-1/2 month old pup, she’s been fairly good about restricting her chewing activities to her toys. I’m not getting good results trying to train her not to pull on her leash, though. She just got over a really bad case of kennel cough (it took about 3 weeks for her to stop coughing), so she’s on a harness because I don’t want anything around her throat. I’ve been trying to correct her by giving a quick pull back on the leash, and then praising when she loosens up. It’s not working very well. Anybody have any suggestions? I’d really like to keep her on the harness if possible. Learn How to Can Spam http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml http://www.spamfree.org/ WHITE HAT OF THE MONTH – Nominate At: http://www.whitehat.com/whotm/ Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)

Response:

Leah wrote … >I’m not getting good results trying to train her not to pull on her leash,

though. She just got over a really bad case of kennel cough (it took about 3 weeks for her to stop coughing), so she’s on a harness because I don’t want anything around her throat. I’ve been trying to correct her by giving a quick pull back on the leash, and then praising when she loosens up. It’s not working very well. Anybody have any suggestions? I’d really like to keep her on the harness if possible.<< If you’re really opposed to using a choke chain, maybe you can try the "make like a tree" thing that others have suggested in the past. The dog pulls, you stop dead. The dog eases up and you move forward. oooieoo

Response:

[..] >As for chewing things she’s not supposed to, I make a displeased "Unh" noise, >and immediately substitute one of her chew toys and praise her for taking it. >For a 4-1/2 month old pup, she’s been fairly good about restricting her chewing >activities to her toys.

I find playing with the pup, rather than just giving pup something to play with, worked better for me. Distract, praise and some activity. If you know the signs that signals that she is about to start looking for something to do.. some play or activity will distract her before she gets to the chewing. >I’m not getting good results trying to train her not to pull on her leash, >though. She just got over a really bad case of kennel cough (it took about 3 >weeks for her to stop coughing), so she’s on a harness because I don’t want >anything around her throat. I’ve been trying to correct her by giving a quick >pull back on the leash, and then praising when she loosens up. It’s not >working very well. >Anybody have any suggestions? I’d really like to keep her on the harness if >possible.

First, I’m so glad to hear that you use a harness! I just read a report on dogs and neck problems caused by pulling or jerking of collars. (Btw.. there was no difference between the neck damages caused by chokes and non-chokes) I think Oooieoo gave you good advise, stop everytime she pulls and start walking when she eases up. An "easy" command may come in handy. Command "easy" (or something like that in a calm voice) when she eases up, and praise her immediately. Helle

Response:

>First, I’m so glad to hear that you use a harness! I just read a >report on dogs and neck problems caused by pulling or jerking of >collars. (Btw.. there was no difference between the neck damages >caused by chokes and non-chokes)

A couple of days ago, I noticed that my shoulder was getting sore. Last night when I could hardly work without crying in pain, I realized what the cause was – a repeat stress injury resulting from Madigan pulling at the leash. If a 22 pound puppy could injure my shoulder that way, then I certainly don’t want to risk her little neck! >I think Oooieoo gave you good advise, stop everytime she pulls and >start walking when she eases up.

I’ve been trying that, too, but probably not consistently enough. We’re going to end up doing quite a bit of standing still, I think. :} Learn How to Can Spam http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml http://www.spamfree.org/ WHITE HAT OF THE MONTH – Nominate At: http://www.whitehat.com/whotm/ Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)

Response:

I imagine the topic of using choke chains is a topic worthy of the Dead Horse (as in "Beating the…") award, but…… Leah, if the "make like a tree" option doesn’t pan out, you could probably stop all of that pulling if you would go ahead and use a choke chain. I find in the long run it’s use is a ton easier on a dog than fighting with this pulling business. In reality, not a lot of choking and jerking goes on if used correctly. Different tools and methods work for different dogs. Most of the dogs I’ve had in the past did great with using a choke chain to train with. The puppy I have now pretty much figured out really fast not to pull, with just a flat collar. I had an Aussie pup years ago who was bar-none, the smartest dog I’ve every lived with. She was also a dog whose only mode was frenzied. A choke chain didn’t faze her and her pulling felt like it just might strangle her. I "resorted" to using a prong collar and couldn’t believe the results. I think it only took one pop–not even a jerk– and she immediate settled into working with me. I’d tried the collar on myself before using it on her and was surprised that the prongs didn’t dig into my skin. I think it must work because of the particular sound it makes (more metal-on-metal than a regular chain), or maybe it’s the evenly distributed pressure… or maybe a combo of both. In the long run, using the prong collar on *that* particular dog was the most humane way to go. I could use very subtle "finger jiggles" to ask for what I needed and she ended up being a terrifically happy dog who was a great companion. oooieoo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->First, I’m so glad to hear that you use a harness! I just read a >report on dogs and neck problems caused by pulling or jerking of >collars. (Btw.. there was no difference between the neck damages >caused by chokes and non-chokes) > A couple of days ago, I noticed that my shoulder was getting sore. Last night > when I could hardly work without crying in pain, I realized what the cause was > – a repeat stress injury resulting from Madigan pulling at the leash. > If a 22 pound puppy could injure my shoulder that way, then I certainly don’t > want to risk her little neck! >I think Oooieoo gave you good advise, stop everytime she pulls and >start walking when she eases up. > I’ve been trying that, too, but probably not consistently enough. We’re going > to end up doing quite a bit of standing still, I think. :} > Learn How to Can Spam > http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml > http://www.spamfree.org/ > WHITE HAT OF THE MONTH – Nominate At: http://www.whitehat.com/whotm/ > Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)

Response:

Hello Helle, You’re close, but not close enough…

> As for chewing things she’s not supposed to, I make a > displeased "Unh" noise, and immediately substitute > one of her chew toys and praise her for taking it.

And she’ll continue going "unh unh" till Kingdom comes, because that’s not BREAKING the dog’s DESIRE for the activity. >For a 4-1/2 month old pup, she’s been fairly good about > restricting her chewing activities to her toys.

Oh! That’s different! At four months old, you can start correcting your puppy using MOORE than just chin cuffing and scruff shaking. At four months they can be corrected just like a big dog using shock or pronged choke collar corrections, according to lyingfrosty dahl. > I find playing with the pup, rather than just giving pup > something to play with, worked better for me.

Here again, we’re avoiding the problem. The objective is not to prevent chewing, but to BREAK the HABIT. Simply distracting the dog will only put that habit next in line… > Distract, praise and some activity.

NO. That’s why you’ll always need to distract and supervise. The PROBLEM is, that when we distract the dog too far from thinking of the activity, we MISS the OPPORTUNITY to address the problem several times in succession, which is the ONLY way to EFFECTIVELY, QUICKLY, and PERMENANTELY change or break the unwanted behavior. > If you know the signs that signals that she is about to > start looking for something to do..

THAT’S THE PREGNANT MOMENT. USE IT. DON’T DISTRACT THE DOG TILL SHE’S THINKING OF OPENING HER MOUTH, CREATE A SOUND FOLLOWED IMMEDIATELY BY PROLONGED, NON PHYSICAL PRAISE, AND WAIT… Wait till the dog begins AGAIN, and once again, a brief sound distracton from another direction (the sound distraction must never come from the same source twice in succession), and follow it IMMEDIATELY with prolonged non physical praise, and WAIT SOME MOORE. THEN, when the pup LOOKS at the object he WANTED to chew and THINKS of chewing, PRAISE THAT THOUGHT. That’s right. Don’t ask why, just DO IT. And then the dog will likely take ONE LAST OPPORTUNITY, and if you follow the method, THAT object in THAT location, will NEVER be touched again, without permission. SEE? That makes much more sense than playing policeman with our dog’s behaviors. THAT’S WHY my students don’t need to crate and fuss with training their dogs for months on end… But our Gang Of Thugs WANTS to HURT dogs, because they don’t know any better and they’re AFRAID. That’s why they crate dogs for the first two years… THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND HOWE DOGS THINK AND LEARN. It’s all available for FREE in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual. I strongly suggest you read and understand it, rather than spending time reading posts here that cannot enlighten you in any manner whatsoever. Then, you’ll be able to give solid, viable, advice for ANY behavior problem. > some play or activity will distract her before > she gets to the chewing.

EXACTLY MY POINT. Doing so STEALS YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO TRAIN THE DOG. AND CONTINUING TO DO SO ONLY REINFORCES THE DOG’S DESIRE FOR THE INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR. >I’m not getting good results trying to train her not to pull > on her leash, though. She just got over a really bad > case of kennel cough (it took about 3 weeks for her to > stop coughing), so she’s on a harness because I don’t > want anything around her throat.

MEE TOO! > I’ve been trying to correct her by giving a quick > pull back on the leash, and then praising when she > loosens up.

Well, no wonder she isn’t able to train the dog. Our EXPERTS HERE like to jerk and choke dogs on pronged choke collars for the same reason. THEY DON’T KNOW OR CARE TO LEARN HOWE DOGS THINK AND LEARN, AND DON’T CARE ABOUT HURTING THEIR DOGS. In fact, they’d RATHER HURT their dogs than have to admit Jerry is RIGHT. Jerry is ALWAYS right about dog behavior, this is Jerry’s BUSINES… > It’s not working very well.

I’d expect not. >Anybody have any suggestions?

BWWWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!! NO. Not here. This is rpdb. We don’t need to train dogs here, we just HURT them and everything works out FINE. Ask Fritz, ask Samson, ask Cubbe, and ask that little dog in the thread "interested in hearing." > I’d really like to keep her on the harness if possible.

Fine. Learn to handle the lead properly and learn to command your dog’s attention using praise, and you’ll have her heeling in a couple of days. > First, I’m so glad to hear that you use a harness! I just > read a report on dogs and neck problems caused by > pulling or jerking of collars. (Btw.. there was no difference > between the neck damages caused by chokes and non- > chokes)

Yes. Our Thugs will give those study’s a few arguments. Has something to do with physics and the amount of pain we can inflict on the points of the dozens of prongs in the dog’s throat, Vs the amound of pain you can inflict over the total contact of the chain choke collar… Makes sense at some level. People who NEED to HURT dogs to train them are usually better at inflicting pain than training dogs. That’s the state of the art here. I suggest you read the thread "interested in hearing." > I think Oooieoo gave you good advise, stop everytime she > pulls and start walking when she eases up.

That’s about as ridiculous as jerking and choking the dog. > An "easy" command may come in handy.

You mean as a little THREAT? I’m sorry Helle, but a threat is a threat. That won’t teach heeling, that will turn the dog off. I don’t do anything that will make my dogs not want to be working for me. Threatening them actually compells them to try harder, just like all of the other behaviors we deal with, when we try to RESTRICT the dog. Restraining, restricting, and distracting the dog without properly addressing the way dogs think and learn is counterproductive and will reinforce, rather than change or extinguish, the undesirable behavior. > Command "easy"

A 180 degree reversal WITHOUT PULLING and a "good boy" works much better, doesn’t threaten, and will get the dog working smoothly again. BUT THAT WON’T MAKE SENSE TO OUR CONTROL FREAKS. > (or something like that in a calm voice) when she eases > up, and praise her immediately.

It’s all explained in detail in Part 2 of the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com > Helle

Ask yourself "WHY DOESN’T JERRY HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?" And then just answer "BECAUSE JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS WITHOUT HURTING THEM." And THEN SAY OUT LOUD: "IGNORE JERRY, HE’S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS." You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confronatational, scientific and psychological methods, in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe. j;~}

Response:

>Leah, if the "make like a tree" option doesn’t pan out, you could probably >stop all of that pulling if you would go ahead and use a choke chain.

I may end up having to do that, but I’d rather try other options first. She runs at full speed and just about jerks my arm out of the socket when she comes to the end of the leash. I just envision her breaking her larynx the first time she tries to do it with a choke on – or even a soft collar. Plus it’s too soon after her condition – she only stopped coughing last week. Learn How to Can Spam http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml http://www.spamfree.org/ WHITE HAT OF THE MONTH – Nominate At: http://www.whitehat.com/whotm/ Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)

Response:

If you do decide to use a choke chain, maybe you could start the lessons in a small space so she couldn’t get up to speed. If your living room isn’t small enough, maybe the bathroom would work. oooieoo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Leah, if the "make like a tree" option doesn’t pan out, you could probably >stop all of that pulling if you would go ahead and use a choke chain. > I may end up having to do that, but I’d rather try other options first. She > runs at full speed and just about jerks my arm out of the socket when she comes > to the end of the leash. I just envision her breaking her larynx the first > time she tries to do it with a choke on – or even a soft collar. > Plus it’s too soon after her condition – she only stopped coughing last week. > Learn How to Can Spam > http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml > http://www.spamfree.org/ > WHITE HAT OF THE MONTH – Nominate At: http://www.whitehat.com/whotm/ > Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)

Response:

>She >runs at full speed and just about jerks my arm out of the socket when she >comes >to the end of the leash.

Try keeping a couple feet of leash slack between both hands. When she gets close to the end of the amount of leash she has, let the extra come out from the hand between the dog and the handle, holding it progressively tighter. This allows stopping pressure to be applied slowly instead of all at once at the end of the leash, kind of like applying brakes. It also gives you both hands to hold the pup with instead of just one, so your shoulder shouldn’t have as much strain on it. My pup likes to pull when her flat collar is on, but this keeps her from hitting the end of the leash hard when she takes off quickly. I got a prong collar for her, and watched her carefully the first few times she wore it to see if it scared or depressed her like I’ve read happens to some dogs. Her tail was up and wagging, her head was either up checking out the sites or down sniffing the smells, the same as any other time. The only difference was that the pulling was almost non-existant. When she reached the end of the leash and the collar pinched a little, she immediately eased up with no loss of tail-wagging. It just takes a very slight twitch of the leash to get her attention. She doesn’t seem to care which collar she wears…but the difference on leash is amazing. Paul C Purebred…mix…their tails still wag the same and they’ll still grab your lunch. Scratch an ear anyways.

Response:

Yes, amazing isn’t it HOWE a few dozen spikes digging into your dog’s throat will slow him down. At least it slows them down on the outside by repressing the opposition reflex. On the inside, the pronged choke collar stimulates the opposition reflex and represses it at the same time. That works with the dogs parasympathetic nervous system, and drives the dog out of control. That’s why seemingly un related anxiety behavior problems like excessive barking, compulsive chewing, digging, whining, pacing, self-mutilation, and aggression are never associated with he cause of the stressor, your pronged choke collar. You’ll learn the hard way like Robert Crim and Fritz and steve hanson and Samson and lia is learning now, with Cubbe. She’s dead meat too, they just don’t know it yet. Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->She >runs at full speed and just about jerks my arm out of the socket when she >comes >to the end of the leash. > Try keeping a couple feet of leash slack between both hands. When she gets > close to the end of the amount of leash she has, let the extra come out from > the hand between the dog and the handle, holding it progressively tighter. This > allows stopping pressure to be applied slowly instead of all at once at the end > of the leash, kind of like applying brakes. It also gives you both hands to > hold the pup with instead of just one, so your shoulder shouldn’t have as much > strain on it. > My pup likes to pull when her flat collar is on, but this keeps her from > hitting the end of the leash hard when she takes off quickly. > I got a prong collar for her, and watched her carefully the first few times she > wore it to see if it scared or depressed her like I’ve read happens to some > dogs. > Her tail was up and wagging, her head was either up checking out the sites or > down sniffing the smells, the same as any other time. The only difference was > that the pulling was almost non-existant. When she reached the end of the leash > and the collar pinched a little, she immediately eased up with no loss of > tail-wagging. It just takes a very slight twitch of the leash to get her > attention. She doesn’t seem to care which collar she wears…but the difference > on leash is amazing. > Paul C > Purebred…mix…their tails still wag the same and they’ll still grab your > lunch. Scratch an ear anyways.

Response:

How to stop counter surfing

admin — Fri, 09 Feb 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

>Uh.. let her meet with kids who are used to dogs, smell little babies >etc.. I agree that it’s a good idea to let her get used to be handled, >but don’t overdo it, ok?

Proud mommy just has to brag about Madigan (the BC) again. :} Even though I don’t have kids, I made the mistake of not socializing my other dogs with them – so they were never very friendly to them. My Eskie used to scare them. Now I do puppets at children’s church, so I’m more likely to have kids around. Therefore, I’m purposely exposing Maddie to them. She started out wanting to jump up and kiss the faces of all kids. But as she became more exposed to them, she noticed that some of them were a little afraid of her. So – by herself, with no intervention by me – she’s seemed to pick up on it… and those kids who are a little wary, she’ll crawl to on her belly, tail wagging, and wait until they pet her before she becomes more friendly. She seems to know "dog kids," and will jump right on them, to their delight. No, mommy hasn’t yet done anything about the jumping. It’s a little complicated, because I *want* her to jump on me, but I don’t want her to jump on other people unless I say it’s okay. I’m going to ask the trainer in puppy class to help me with this (we start tomorrow). I LOVE dogs to jump on me, and I’m disappointed when owners won’t let them. So I want to give Madigan the option. :} Learn How to Can Spam http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml http://www.spamfree.org/ WHITE HAT OF THE MONTH – Nominate At: http://www.whitehat.com/whotm/ Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)

Response:

>> However we’re struggling with one training problem, how do we get her to > stop counter surfing. >Mousetraps.

uh…wouldn’t that tend to break a few toes too? Paws on a pup like the OP has would be big, yeah, but owwww…. Paul C Purebred…mix…their tails still wag the same and they’ll still grab your lunch. Scratch an ear anyways.

Response:

> >Uh.. let her meet with kids who are used to dogs, smell little babies >etc.. I agree that it’s a good idea to let her get used to be handled, >but don’t overdo it, ok? > Proud mommy just has to brag about Madigan (the BC) again. :} snip > I LOVE dogs to jump on me, and I’m disappointed when owners won’t let them. So > I want to give Madigan the option. :}

Some of us have big dogs and small and older folks coming around and we try and train our dogs not_ to jump up on them. My itty bitty Mom , 61 years of age, can’t handle a 100# dog jumping on her without falling on her ass. (Brittle bones on old folks don’t heal fast, ya know)? So, don’t encourage other folks dogs to jump on you. There’s a good reason we train our dogs NOT to jump up on people. Personally, I would be pissed at someone ecouraging my dogs to jump up on folks, and would not hesitate to reprimand the human that encourages it. Terri

Response:

Hello dw,

> First step would be to "break the opportunity of the habit" > put up gates, folded newspaper on the edges of tables* > make them slippy to jump up on and redirect the energy.

No, that’s avoiding the problem. Putting up gates only adds a barrier frustration to the problem… > Completely remove the opportunity until you have it back > in your control.

CONTROL is a big issue with you bums, isn’t it? That means they will DENY themselves the OPPORTUNITY to train the behavior. That’s why you don’t have success with these behavior problems. That’s why you crate and confront dogs over their behavior problems. YOU are responsible for complicating behaviors like these. MOST dog behavior problems are CAUSED by our inappropriate and ineffective methods to address them. >Increase the distance from the smells, crate until after your > meals – ignore the sad face.

SEE? More of the same hot, dry, crap. You haven’t got a CLUE about training this behavior. > * half hanging over.

The entire time ANXIETY is taking a toll on the dog’s attitude… You’re causing him to NEED to do other, perhaps LESS desirable behaviors, as anxiety relief mechanisms. Counter surfing, sofa sleeping, jumping, mouthing, barking, whining, housebreaking, etc are all EASY behavior problems to extinguish IF you do not avoid, confront, or punish the dog about them, and rely on scientific and psychological conditioning and deconditioning behavior modification techniques to quickly and without anxiety or conflict, EXTINGUISH ANY UNDESIRABLE BEHAVIOR. Ask yourself "WHY DOESN’T JERRY HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?" And then just answer "BECAUSE JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS WITHOUT HURTING THEM." And THEN SAY OUT LOUD: "IGNORE JERRY, HE’S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS." You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confronatational, scientific and psychological methods, in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided compliments of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe. j;~}

Response:

Yeah, I thought you’d like that. The force approach turns you on, because you don’t have the INTELLECT to outwit the natural cunning of the domestic puppy dog.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Great choice. > Read "Childproofing your Dog" by Brian Kilcommons. > > A third question. We’re expecting our first child in a few months. Any > > particular training we should be doing now. The vet suggested > > "mauling" Zoe like a child would (i.e. tail pulling, poking and proding, > > etc) so that she understands there is never an excuse for agression (not > > that she’s show any signs of agression).

Response:

>> I LOVE dogs to jump on me, and I’m disappointed when owners won’t let > them. >Personally, I would be pissed at someone ecouraging my dogs to >jump up on folks, and would not hesitate to reprimand the human >that encourages it.

No kiddin’. I don’t give a flying leap if someone else wants my dogs to jump on them, they’ll get corrected regardless. Sheesh. Wait ’till your dog knocks someone over, you’ll feel very differently about it. Teach her to jump on YOU on command, and no one else if you must. And don’t encourage other dogs to jump on you. Their owners will thank you for it. –Cindy —

Response:

>Personally, I would be pissed at someone ecouraging my dogs to >jump up on folks, and would not hesitate to reprimand the human >that encourages it.

Comprendo. I don’t encourage other dogs to jump on me, because I know many owners are trying to train them not to. But if it’s just because they’re trying to be polite about their huge dog jumping on a hundred pound woman, I let them know that I don’t mind. Learn How to Can Spam http://www.whew.com/Spammers/reportspam_stepbystep.shtml http://www.spamfree.org/ WHITE HAT OF THE MONTH – Nominate At: http://www.whitehat.com/whotm/ Internet Secrets, 2nd Edition, by John Levine (All About Spam, p. 277)

Response:

Great choice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Read "Childproofing your Dog" by Brian Kilcommons. > A third question. We’re expecting our first child in a few months. Any > particular training we should be doing now. The vet suggested > "mauling" Zoe like a child would (i.e. tail pulling, poking and proding, > etc) so that she understands there is never an excuse for agression (not > that she’s show any signs of agression).

Response:

>We’ve got a 4 month old puppy (mom was a golden retriever/ border collie >mix, we were told the dad looked like a black lab, but we’re sure there >must have been doberman in there somewhere as well).

She sounds like a little beauty >As you can imagine, with that mix she’s bright with lots of energy >(what we were looking for in a dog). >However we’re struggling with one training problem, how do we get her to >stop counter surfing. She knows she’s not allowed to counter (or kitchen >table) surf, but just can’t seem to resist the urge when there are good >smells up there. She’s never out of our view (at least while she’s >uncrated and inside the house), so we always, correct her, but somehow >we need to convince her to stop jumping up on the counters in the first >place. Suggestions?

If you’re always around, you have a good opportunity to stop her _before_ she does it. Distract her when you she that she’s about to jump up on the counter. Then you reward her. The idea is that she never gets a chance to jump the counter, which breaks the habit, and you reward her for _not_ going up there. My guess is that is a puppy-thing. Naturally, if she gets used to jumping up there and finds food all the time, she will continue doing it because it’s rewarding. But as she gets older, she will be less interested in looking for things to eat/do.. such as searching the counter for food. >A second question. She (Zoe) learns the meaning of commands extremely >quickly, and when someone has a treat in hand will respond to sit, stay, >come, down, up, give, and shake However how do we convince her that >these are commands, not requests when we don’t have a treat in hand.

By not showing her the treat when giving the command. In the beginning you reward her every time she gets the command right. When she gets the command right every time, you gradually remove the reward from 1 out of one, to two out three, to one out of two..etc. I don’t take the rewards away completely. >(She will be going to obediance school as soon as the snow is off the >ground). While she loves to be close to my wife and I, I find she is >much less motivated to actually please us than most of the dogs I had >growing up, or have come in contact with. She is much more motivated by >a chance to run and play. i.e she will usually respond to a command if >she knows I’ll throw her something (especially snowballs) to go and >retrieve once she obeys.

Don’t forget that she’s a young puppy. She’s behaving perfectly normal. If she’s more interested in running and playing, you need to think about how you can play along with her. Training needs to be fun, and more fun than the play she comes up with on her own. >A third question. We’re expecting our first child in a few months. Any >particular training we should be doing now. The vet suggested >"mauling" Zoe like a child would (i.e. tail pulling, poking and proding, >etc) so that she understands there is never an excuse for agression (not >that she’s show any signs of agression). >Suggestions, comments, helpful hints?

Uh.. let her meet with kids who are used to dogs, smell little babies etc.. I agree that it’s a good idea to let her get used to be handled, but don’t overdo it, ok? >BTW, are puppies ever a lot of work! A lot of fun too!

I know, and I miss it! Helle

Response:

We’ve got a 4 month old puppy (mom was a golden retriever/ border collie mix, we were told the dad looked like a black lab, but we’re sure there must have been doberman in there somewhere as well). As you can imagine, with that mix she’s bright with lots of energy (what we were looking for in a dog). However we’re struggling with one training problem, how do we get her to stop counter surfing. She knows she’s not allowed to counter (or kitchen table) surf, but just can’t seem to resist the urge when there are good smells up there. She’s never out of our view (at least while she’s uncrated and inside the house), so we always, correct her, but somehow we need to convince her to stop jumping up on the counters in the first place. Suggestions? A second question. She (Zoe) learns the meaning of commands extremely quickly, and when someone has a treat in hand will respond to sit, stay, come, down, up, give, and shake However how do we convince her that these are commands, not requests when we don’t have a treat in hand. (She will be going to obediance school as soon as the snow is off the ground). While she loves to be close to my wife and I, I find she is much less motivated to actually please us than most of the dogs I had growing up, or have come in contact with. She is much more motivated by a chance to run and play. i.e she will usually respond to a command if she knows I’ll throw her something (especially snowballs) to go and retrieve once she obeys. A third question. We’re expecting our first child in a few months. Any particular training we should be doing now. The vet suggested "mauling" Zoe like a child would (i.e. tail pulling, poking and proding, etc) so that she understands there is never an excuse for agression (not that she’s show any signs of agression). Suggestions, comments, helpful hints? BTW, are puppies ever a lot of work! A lot of fun too!

Response:

First step would be to "break the opportunity of the habit" put up gates, folded newspaper on the edges of tables* make them slippy to jump up on and redirect the energy. Completely remove the opportunity until you have it back in your control. Increase the distance from the smells, crate until after your meals – ignore the sad face. * half hanging over. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > We’ve got a 4 month old puppy (mom was a golden retriever/ border collie > mix, we were told the dad looked like a black lab, but we’re sure there > must have been doberman in there somewhere as well). > As you can imagine, with that mix she’s bright with lots of energy > (what we were looking for in a dog). > However we’re struggling with one training problem, how do we get her to > stop counter surfing. She knows she’s not allowed to counter (or kitchen > table) surf, but just can’t seem to resist the urge when there are good > smells up there. She’s never out of our view (at least while she’s > uncrated and inside the house), so we always, correct her, but somehow > we need to convince her to stop jumping up on the counters in the first > place. Suggestions?

Read a good book on praise and correction training. By asking these questions and being aware of the need to change makes you very open to the assistance that a training manual can give – don’t wait. For now include a big praise during the treat and reduce your causal contact so that the praise contact is important – reduce the size of the treat to a crumb. > A second question. She (Zoe) learns the meaning of commands extremely > quickly, and when someone has a treat in hand will respond to sit, stay, > come, down, up, give, and shake However how do we convince her that > these are commands, not requests when we don’t have a treat in hand. > (She will be going to obediance school as soon as the snow is off th > snnip

Careful here! The baby and puppy will be growing up together and will learn with your help limits. Both of them. Get control of both before they spend time together. For the next year contact will need to be tightly controlled. Both are too valuable to risk accidents. Get a trainer not a Vet for help here. > A third question. We’re expecting our first child in a few months. Any > particular training we should be doing now. The vet suggested > "mauling" Zoe like a child would (i.e. tail pulling, poking and proding, > etc) so that she understands there is never an excuse for agression (not > that she’s show any signs of agression).

Or buy a box - your choice. > Suggestions, comments, helpful hints?

Looking forward to a pup next month. First for five years. : ) : ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BTW, are puppies ever a lot of work! A lot of fun too!

Response:

> However we’re struggling with one training problem, how do we get her to > stop counter surfing.

Mousetraps. > A second question. She (Zoe) learns the meaning of commands extremely > quickly, and when someone has a treat in hand will respond to sit, stay, > come, down, up, give, and shake However how do we convince her that > these are commands, not requests when we don’t have a treat in hand. > (She will be going to obediance school as soon as the snow is off the > ground). While she loves to be close to my wife and I, I find she is > much less motivated to actually please us than most of the dogs I had > growing up, or have come in contact with. She is much more motivated by > a chance to run and play. i.e she will usually respond to a command if > she knows I’ll throw her something (especially snowballs) to go and > retrieve once she obeys.

Read "Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson. > A third question. We’re expecting our first child in a few months. Any > particular training we should be doing now. The vet suggested > "mauling" Zoe like a child would (i.e. tail pulling, poking and proding, > etc) so that she understands there is never an excuse for agression (not > that she’s show any signs of agression).

Read "Childproofing your Dog" by Brian Kilcommons. Good luck! -Shannon the taciturn (today anyway)

Response:

Curbing a couple of bad habits

admin — Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Crate train her! And don’t leave her outside alone — especially when you aren’t home. The not peeing inside when it’s rainy? Close that dog door and take her out when she needs to go. That way you are in control. — Jane Webb Moonpie & Raisin Pie http://www.webbweave.com

Response:

Hello webbweave,

> > Crate train her!

Crating is NOT training. Crating the dog will make her MOORE anxious and LESS housebroken. > And don’t leave her outside alone — especially when > you aren’t home.

BECAUSE THE DOG IS NOT TRAINED. > The not peeing inside when it’s rainy? Close that dog > door and take her out when she needs to go. That > way you are in control.

CONTROL. That’s why you can’t TRAIN the dog, you are always trying to FORCE CONTROL, and INFLICT PAIN when your confinement, scolding, and bribes don’t work. > — > Jane Webb > Moonpie & > Raisin Pie > http://www.webbweave.com

Ask yourself "WHY DOESN’T JERRY HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?" And then just answer "BECAUSE JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS WITHOUT HURTING THEM." And THEN SAY OUT LOUD: "IGNORE JERRY, HE’S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS." You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confronatational, scientific and psychological methods, in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided courtesy of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe.

Response:

Mandi, Beware of Jerry Howe. Jerry Howe is only here to sell you his dubious $100 electronic training device. That is where the link he posts takes you. His "free training manual" offer is the bait for his underhanded "bait & switch" scam. (An unhappy purchaser of Jerry’s $100 training device has posted a review at: If Jerry were an honest person he would post a genuine link to the "free training manual" & not try to scam every new person on the newsgroup. Unfortunately he refuses to do so and, as you can see by his posts, viciously attacks, slanders, and lies about anyone who disagrees with him in any way. Recently, Jerry Howe encouraged a poster in this very newsgroup to: , & I quote, " P.S. Take a couple of Tylenol with cyaninde. " EdW http://Petloss.com/inthenws.htm

Response:

> Mandi, > Beware of Jerry Howe. > Jerry Howe is only here to sell you his dubious $100 > electronic training device. That is where the link he > posts takes you. His "free training manual"

Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) is a pleasant high frequency sound program, silent to humans, that all animals love listening to; pet birds, bunnies, horses, ferrets. I’ve never had a complaint of an animal not enjoying and benefitting from it. I know if the unit is operated proplerly, it will work perfectly on 98% of the critters out there. What’s really impressed me are the results we’re getting with cats. Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) stops feral cat fighting like nothing you can imagine. Also, the cat rescues have been highly impressed with its effectiveness stopping nervous diareha in new rescues. Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) is 100% money back, satisfaction guaranteed forever, and BIOSOUND Scientific pays return shipping, so if DDR don’t float your boat, it won’t cost you one cent. HOWE’S THAT for a gurarantee? And, you get a two year full, free repair/replace warranty. I’ve trained dogs professionally for thirty eight years, and worked on this project for better than ten years. There is nothing that can compare with my machine. This is one of a kind. Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) is a complex sine wave broadcast through a tuned piezo transducer, at about 34k, of about 100db, and broadcasts a range of 500+ feet. Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) doesn’t need near the animals or to be loud, because it doesn’t scream obcenities at them, we don’t NEED a machine to do THAT. I’ve had a few people tell me they didn’t WANT to be NICE to their neighbor’s barking dogs. So, I tell them to enjoy the barking. I wouldn’t have any part of an instrument that would be obectionable to any animals. Dimensions are 4"x5"x1", and under two pounds including the standard wall transformer. The unit is not waterproof at this time, but they live well outside if covered in a plastic wrap. Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) costs $99.95 plus $7.50 S&H total $107.45 in US,other countries vary, and is 100% money back satisfaction guaranteed forever (including paid return shipping). Shipping at this time will be immediate. You can order on our secure order page on the net, by phone, or US Post. Visa, MasterCard, Personal, and electronic checks are accepted. The BIOSOUND Scientific Elves offer a 25% discount for shelter and rescue folks. Because they know many rescue people work on their own, this extends to anyone helping critters, regardless of their affiliation with a bona-fide, tax exempt organization. Discounted sales must be paid for by check or money order through the US Post because the cost of credit card processing would put the Elves into the red on such orders. The rescue and shelter discounted price is $82.45 (including FL sales tax is $88.90). Make the check or M.O. payable to BIOSOUND Scientific, at the address below. Send me your address by email or on the phone and I’ll ship a.s.a.p. The Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too) machine will rehabilitate most behavior problems on it’s own, but proper handling and training is important for your dog, too. That’s why I’ve got the free Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available on my site, it’s not a DDR sales pitch, it’s just excellent dog training info. You’re welcome to ask for as much additional help with the text or techniques as you may want. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual has nothing to do with DDR (&KWT), except it’s trained a lot of dogs and cost BIOSOUND Scientific a few sales. That’s one of the pitfalls of working with Elves, they’re lousy businessmen. Thank you for your inquiry, Jerry Howe, Director of Research, BIOSOUND Scientific Phone: 1-407-425-5092 http://www.doggydoright.com

Response:

Hello Mandi,

> Hi,

> We let her settle in the first week, and then had her > desexed, vaccinated, wormed, checked for > heartworm and microchipped.

Whoa! Remindes me of that morining I woke up in TJ. > She’s basically a good, gentle dog who needs to learn > some manners. She’s probably got manners, for a dog. Dogs aren’t as

uptight about smelling each other’s behinds as people are. They don’t know from bad behavior, just dog behavior. > When she arrived she didn’t sit, jumped up at people, > didn’t really answer to her name, and basically did as > she pleased.

Yes, that’s what I’d expect. That’s why I try not to ask things of dogs until I’ve trained them. This way, we don’t put her into a spot where she’s either doing something wrong or being forced HOWEver gently, into position. Any force or emotional confrontation or correction will confuse her, because she has no way to understand the problems about her behavior. She’s just trying to do what gets your attention. If you give her bad behaviors attention she’ll keep doing them. The repercussions don’t matter to the dog, any more than they can associate the praise after they’ve done something right. Dogs think fast, and by the time you praise a behavior, the though is already gone, and the dog thinks you’re praising him for what he’s doing at this moment. They just get confused and suspicious because you are telling the dog she’s not being good for only doing things that Nature tells her she can do. She doesn’t know HOWE to get 100% of your undivided attention through positive behavior. That’s why I tell people to praise every time the dog glances at you. You’ve got to teach her that if she’ll just come over and settle down you can pat her calmly and that’s much more fun. You can’t do that if you are fighting to keep her off of you. You can stop her from doing that by using sound distractions and prolonged, non physical praise. > Once I get the all clear from my vet I’ll be joining an > obedience dog club to teach her some manners

You can use the techniques in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com the same day she comes out of the clinic. NON FORCE, NON CONFRONTATIONAL means you don’t have to get a physical before going through the rigors of training. > and maybe try some agility as she’s very quick and > active and I think she’d really enjoy it. > There’s two bad habits she has that I’d really like to > curb, but I’m unsure how to go about it.

That’s why people write in here. > 1. Digging to get out when we leave her at home – > She’s never left at home for more than a couple of > hours at any one point, and when we’re home, she’s > inside with us. However, if we go out and leave her > for even 1/2 hour while we do grocery shopping, she > digs her way out of the backyard under a gate.

O.K. That’s a whole nuther story. The problem as YOU see it is the dog is digging under the fence. HOWE do you stop the dog from digging? The problem as I see it, is why does the dog WANT to dig under the fence, and HOWE do you make the dog to WANT to stay inside the fence? There’s several small points that need to be addressed to make the dog not want to go out of the yard. Teaching the dog to not dig out is easy, but you don’t want to just try to put a bandaid on it, you want to train the dog to make sure she’s trustworthy. > She doesn’t dig at any other time, doesn’t dig holes in > the garden, but only digs to get out when we go out.

RIGHT. She’s having separation anxiety. If you’re home she doesn’t want to dig out. > I went out the other day to the supermarket, and was > amazed to come home and find her sitting on the > front door step (I counted my blessings that even tho > she got out, she didn’t wander off).

Why would she wander off? She escaped so she could come in. She missed you and didn’t want to be alone. > There is a small gap under the gate (not big enough > for her to fit under) but just as a precaution I > barricaded it with a row of bricks.

You can use sound and praise techniques to teach her not to try to dig. You can use my surrogate toy separation anxiety techniqque to help keep her calm in the yard while your gone. It should take just a few minutes over a couple of days to accomplish. And then you’ll have to test it out to make sure she is comfortable while you’re gone. > The next time I came home, she’d dug *under* the > bricks. In the short term I need to think of a better > way of blocking the gap under the gate, but long > term, I’d like to stop her from doing this (if possible).

That’s pretty easy to do, but your digging problem isn’t just a simple digging problem, it’s separation anxiety, and you’ve got to cure that first. > 2. When it’s wet on the ground outside, she’ll pee > indoors rather than go outside.

Smart dog. We’ve got ways of dealing with that… I use the same sound technique for that as for the fence digging. > I’ve been praising her like crazy when she goes > outside, and ignoring her when she goes inside.

Ignoring it is better than scolding. We’ve got effective ways to tell the dog he shouldn’t do that without being confrontational or calling our attention to his bad behavior. > She always has access to outside without > having to wait for a door to be opened, and this > morning I watched her poke her nose out the door, > have a bit of a look around, then trot off to the > dining room and squat there.

If you’d have clapped your hands once and praised her for five to fifteen seconds, you could have interrupted her behavior and if you do that just right, she won’t do it any more. > I just looked at her and she slunk away,

Right. We don’t want her to feel like that, because that will inhibit her trusting and wanting to do things for us. She doesn’t know it’s wrong to make on the floor. > so I’m sure she knows she’s doing the wrong thing.

She knows she’s being punished, but maybe not know why, or she wouldn’t do it. > I’d be grateful if anyone here could offer some ideas > on how to get around these two problems.

I think most people with come up with obvious solutions like building better fence or putting in a chain or run or keep her in the house, and on and on. I suspect you are not leaving her inside because you don’t trust her in the house. If she has a problem with separation anxiety outside, it may not manifest itself when she’s inside, but you won’t know till you test it out, and address it using sound distraction and praise techniques in conjunction with the surrogate toy technique. If she’s anxious when left in the bedroom, or car, you’ll need to address that too. You want to to every variation of the problem you can, and break her response to being alone there. The idea of being calm when alone needs to be generalized so it CAN’T come back. > Thanks

That whole deal should take three or four days, maximum. > Mandi

You can get all the information you need to PROPERLY handle and train your dog using non force, non confronatational, scientific and psychological methods, in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for free at http://www.doggydoright.com The Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual is provided courtesy of the BIOSOUND Scientific Elves as an alternative to Doggy Do Right (and Kitty Will Too). Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe. j;~}

Response:

Hi, I have just taken ownership of a 10 month old Kelpie X. She’s a very sweet little dog, however the people who owned her previously, while loving her, didn’t take care of her. She was not vaccinated, not desexed, not microchipped, not wormed etc etc. She’d never been in a car. We let her settle in the first week, and then had her desexed, vaccinated, wormed, checked for heartworm and microchipped. She’s basically a good, gentle dog who needs to learn some manners. When she arrived she didn’t sit, jumped up at people, didn’t really answer to her name, and basically did as she pleased. Once I get the all clear from my vet I’ll be joining an obedience dog club to teach her some manners and maybe try some agility as she’s very quick and active and I think she’d really enjoy it. There’s two bad habits she has that I’d really like to curb, but I’m unsure how to go about it. 1. Digging to get out when we leave her at home – She’s never left at home for more than a couple of hours at any one point, and when we’re home, she’s inside with us. However, if we go out and leave her for even 1/2 hour while we do grocery shopping, she digs her way out of the backyard under a gate. She doesn’t dig at any other time, doesn’t dig holes in the garden, but only digs to get out when we go out. I went out the other day to the supermarket, and was amazed to come home and find her sitting on the front door step (I counted my blessings that even tho she got out, she didn’t wander off). There is a small gap under the gate (not big enough for her to fit under) but just as a precaution I barricaded it with a row of bricks. The next time I came home, she’d dug *under* the bricks. In the short term I need to think of a better way of blocking the gap under the gate, but long term, I’d like to stop her from doing this (if possible). 2. When it’s wet on the ground outside, she’ll pee indoors rather than go outside. I’ve been praising her like crazy when she goes outside, and ignoring her when she goes inside. She always has access to outside without having to wait for a door to be opened, and this morning I watched her poke her nose out the door, have a bit of a look around, then trot off to the dining room and squat there. I just looked at her and she slunk away, so I’m sure she knows she’s doing the wrong thing. I’d be grateful if anyone here could offer some ideas on how to get around these two problems. Thanks Mandi