Question:

Taz, our 11 month old Pit, will sleep all night in her crate or in our bed and can hold her bladder without problem. But once she’s up, she wants to go out every 15 – 20 minutes to pee. Once she goes to the door to let us know she wants to go out, if we wait longer than 10 – 15 minutes, we have a puddle to clean up. I saw a post here several months ago (from Linda O.?) about someone’s dogs that were trained to go out once in the morning and once at night. How does a person train a dog to do this? Any advice will be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Paul —                                                                                                                                                                                                           Paul Carter                                                 "There is no dark side of the Moon, really. Matter of fact, it’s ALL dark!"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Taz, our 11 month old Pit, will sleep all night in her crate or in our > bed and can hold her bladder without problem. But once she’s up, she > wants to go out every 15 – 20 minutes to pee. Once she goes to the > door to let us know she wants to go out, if we wait longer than 10 – > 15 minutes, we have a puddle to clean up. > I saw a post here several months ago (from Linda O.?) about someone’s > dogs that were trained to go out once in the morning and once at > night. How does a person train a dog to do this? > Any advice will be greatly appreciated! > Thanks, > Paul

–                                                                                                                                                                           >                                 Paul

Carter                                                 > "There is no dark side of the Moon, really. Matter of fact, it’s ALL dark!"

Paul, are you sure your pup doesn’t have a bladder or kidney infection.  I just got back from the vet with the same problem and my dog’s on antibiotics.  She didn’t show any infection but that is what they were checking her for.  She had also gotten into the trash and the vet believes it messed up her blood sugar level which he said could also be causing the problem.  My dog was also sleeping through the night (I thought) but found out later she had had some accidents.  Female dogs are also prone to have cystitus (not sure of spelling) it might not hurt for you to call the vet and explain the problem, apparently there are a lot of medical problems that can cause this.

Response:

>Taz, our 11 month old Pit, will sleep all night in her crate or in our >bed and can hold her bladder without problem. But once she’s up, she >wants to go out every 15 – 20 minutes to pee. Once she goes to the >door to let us know she wants to go out, if we wait longer than 10 – >15 minutes, we have a puddle to clean up.

How big a puddle? You may want to get her checked for a bladder infection, just in case. If not, are you sure she doesn’t just want to be let out because she wants to go outside? Is she verbally corrected when she does her business near the door? Does she go immediately when she gets outside (like she REALLY had to go) or spend time goofing off first (it wasn’t really an emergency). What I’m wondering is if perhaps the usual strategy (which works well for most of us) to housebreaking backfired. That is, verbally correct, take the dog outside to continue its business and when it goes, praise it. I wonder if your dog may be using this as a strategy to get outside (figuring it’s worth a "NO! BAD dog!" to be able to go outside for a while). I had a friend whose dog did the same thing yours did but the second he got outside, he’d grab a ball from the porch and play with it before finally getting around to peeing. Eventually, my friend just told the dog NO!, cleaned up the puddle and went back to whatever it was she was doing (the assumption here was that her dog seemed to think that going outside was a reward for peeing in the house so she cut that part out). She put the dog in a down-stay on the floor near where she was sitting and would just wait until the next attempt to go out and follow him to the door again, waiting for him to squat so she could scold him again. It took a few weeks but the dog eventually gave up and only expected to be let out when she was good and ready to take him out. YMMV. Of course, you should have a vet check your dog out to rule out any UTIs before assuming it’s entirely a behavioral problem. I had a bladder infection once and nothing wakes me up so I slept through the night as well >I saw a post here several months ago (from Linda O.?) about someone’s >dogs that were trained to go out once in the morning and once at >night. How does a person train a dog to do this?

My dogs go three times. Once in the morning, once when I get home and once before bed (sometimes more during the weekend because I take them swimming and things that involve lots of swallowed water!) I didn’t really use any particular training. I just decreased the number of outings per day (gradually) with each dog until it was old enough to maintain bladder control. I do have one conditioned response to get rid of though. My younger Border Collie has associated my typing of the work "logout" (in fact, he just reacted again!) with going out. Bizarre. The keys must have distinctive sounds because I’ve tried to type other 6-letter words at the same speed I normally type "logout" and they don’t elicit any sort of response. Also, typing it at a speed "log" <pause> "out" and he still knows what I’m typing. Problem is that I tend to take the dogs for their bedtime walks after I’ve goofed off on my computer for a while. Since "logout" is the last thing I type, I guess he associates the word with "outside" since he perks up, gets excited and flies to the door in happy anticipation! It’s kind of funny (good parlor trick for friends who "try to stump Bishop" by playing in a Microsoft word file, randomly typing words and trying to insert "logout" without him noticing!) It can be a bit annoying though since I don’t ALWAYS want to take the dogs out after I’ve logged out but he pesters me until I do. Stacy

Response:

>What I’m wondering is if perhaps the usual strategy (which works well for >most of us) to housebreaking backfired. >if your dog may be using this as a strategy to get outside (figuring it’s >worth a "NO! BAD dog!" to be able to go outside for a while

Stacy, Many of my students report some backfiring in housetraining strategy too. Since we advocate praise and treats for eliminating outside, the dog figured out how to collect more goodies by not completely emptying out in one go. The dog would squeeze out a dollop of poop, get a treat, squeeze out another, get another treat. Same with urinating. It was pretty funny. We cured it by having the owner withhold until the dog competely emptied out which took only  a few days to figure out. >I do have one conditioned response to get rid of though. My younger >Border Collie has associated my typing of the work "logout" >Problem is that I tend to take the dogs for their bedtime walks after I’ve >goofed off on my computer for a while. Since "logout" is the last thing >I type, I guess he associates the word with "outside" since he perks up, >gets excited and flies to the door in happy anticipation! >he pesters me until I do.

 He has you well trained! Thats the problem with dogs that are so smart, they seem to outsmart us at every level. One of my students had the opposite problem with her dog. He went ballistic everytime he logged on the computer. Guess the dog was making a last ditch effort to keep the owner’s attention, because once on-line, the dog knew he would be completely ignored. My dogs lie at my feet when i’m online and start nose prodding me when its dinner time. I obediently get up to feed them. ahh well, the joys of owning and being owned by our buddies. Sometimes its easier to live with it than take the time to desensitize and cure it. A lot will depend on how much you want to solve the problem. My dogs know when I’m going to take them to the beach. I’m not sure what cues  them off yet, but then I haven’t really taken the time to go step by step. I’m just as anxious to go as well. Anyway, I really enjoyed your story. If you really want the behavior to stop, then the classic method of extinguishing the behavior is to simply stop the reinforcement. Easier said than done, right? Gwen Perfect Paws, Inc.  Dog Behavior & Training Center  San Francisco URL:  http://www.perfectpaws.com "…and having created the dog, on the seventh day God rested."

Response:

> Taz, our 11 month old Pit, will sleep all night in her crate or in our
> bed and can hold her bladder without problem. But once she’s up, she
> wants to go out every 15 – 20 minutes to pee. Once she goes to the
> door to let us know she wants to go out, if we wait longer than 10 -
> 15 minutes, we have a puddle to clean up.
> I saw a post here several months ago (from Linda O.?) about someone’s
> dogs that were trained to go out once in the morning and once at
> night. How does a person train a dog to do this?
> Thanks,
> Paul

Paul, This is *also* symptomatic of a urinary infection, which is NOT rare in females this age.  Please get her checked for this before you start any training!  It would be cruel to demand more control if she needs care and antibiotics before she can comply.  I have had vets do a physical exam and say the bladder felt normal but the dog continued to have problems, and when I finally got the urine specimen to the vet, yep, it really WAS an infection.  Go get a urine specimen bottle from the vet the day before her appointment. So now *you* get to learn a real trick first:  collecting a urine specimen from a female.  Basically, have a clean bowl (fresh out of the dishwasher) handy.  Wait till the dog is desperate to go out, and put her on leash. Then when she gets outside and lets loose, you hold the bowl under her. The leash is to keep her from pulling away when she realizes you have just put a bowl under her and she wants to get away from this wierdness. Transfer the specimen to the plastic sample bottle, and take dog and specimen to vet.  If the appt isn’t till later, ask the vet if the sample should be refrigerated till you are ready to leave the house. Good luck with your pup.         …laurie                             Mother Mastiff                                

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Taz, our 11 month old Pit, will sleep all night in her crate or in our > bed and can hold her bladder without problem. But once she’s up, she > wants to go out every 15 – 20 minutes to pee. Once she goes to the > door to let us know she wants to go out, if we wait longer than 10 – > 15 minutes, we have a puddle to clean up. > I saw a post here several months ago (from Linda O.?) about someone’s > dogs that were trained to go out once in the morning and once at > night. How does a person train a dog to do this? > Thanks, > Paul >Paul, >This is *also* symptomatic of a urinary infection, which is NOT rare in >females this age.  Please get her checked for this before you start any >training!  It would be cruel to demand more control if she needs care and >antibiotics before she can comply.  I have had vets do a physical exam >and say the bladder felt normal but the dog continued to have problems, >and when I finally got the urine specimen to the vet, yep, it really WAS >an infection.  Go get a urine specimen bottle from the vet the day before >her appointment. >So now *you* get to learn a real trick first:  collecting a urine specimen >from a female.  Basically, have a clean bowl (fresh out of the dishwasher) >handy.  Wait till the dog is desperate to go out, and put her on leash. >Then when she gets outside and lets loose, you hold the bowl under her. >The leash is to keep her from pulling away when she realizes you have just >put a bowl under her and she wants to get away from this wierdness. >Transfer the specimen to the plastic sample bottle, and take dog and >specimen to vet.  If the appt isn’t till later, ask the vet if the sample >should be refrigerated till you are ready to leave the house. >Good luck with your pup.         …laurie >                            Mother Mastiff          

Once again, great advice from Mother Mastiff. If you can’t collect the urine yourself, don’t delay going to the vet just because of that. The vet will most often use a catheter anyway to get a urine sample  to assure that it is not contaminated. Gwen Perfect Paws, Inc.  Dog Behavior & Training Center  San Francisco URL:  http://www.perfectpaws.com "…and having created the dog, on the seventh day God rested."

Response:

>problem.  My dog was also sleeping through the night (I thought) but found >out later she had had some accidents.  Female dogs are also prone to have >cystitus (not sure of spelling) it might not hurt for you to call the vet >and explain the problem, apparently there are a lot of medical problems >that can cause this.

What is cystitus????? TIA, Greg

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What is cystitus????? An infection of the bladder. —         Jos Marlowe         Sun Microsystems Laboratories

Response:

[excellent advice about 11 mo old Pit who has to pee frequently  deleted.  I concur -- sounds like a bladder infection, get her  to a vet] >So now *you* get to learn a real trick first:  collecting a urine specimen >from a female.  Basically, have a clean bowl (fresh out of the dishwasher) >handy.  Wait till the dog is desperate to go out, and put her on leash.

Small tip: long, narrow containers might work better than bowls. I bought a cheap, narrow plastic trough-about 2" wide and 2" deep. Kept our little bitch from jumping up with a highly indignant expression (*DO you mind, human, that’s *PRIVATE*) as she did when she felt the bowl I was trying to use touch her legs. >If the appt isn’t till later, ask the vet if the sample >should be refrigerated till you are ready to leave the house.

The sample should be refrigerated.  That keeps any random bugs from her fur/skin/grass/whatvever from multiplying. Your vet should also discuss diet and the use of a urinary acidifier.  On my vet’s advice, I give my cystitis-prone bitch 500 mg of Vitamin C twice a day (to keep her urine at pH 6). If it is diagnosed as a urinary tract infection (cystitis), be sure to give her all the antibiotics, even if she seems better.  But it is also possible it could be other things.  See your vet! Good luck, Sydney

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