Question:

Hi,   I agree with you 100percent. A biting dog is not a suitable housepet. Bite’s are rarely unprovoked,the dog bites(I mean serious,not puppy mouthing ,which by the way leads to serious if not corrected properly)if when offended or crossed,in the case of the dominant dog. Some dominant dogs look at a pet or a hug to be a violation of it’s body space. Disturbed when sleeping,taking an object from dog,foced placing of body position when training,brushing,or just doing whatever dog doesn’t like you doing. All of this may seem unprovoked,but from the dominant dog’s point of view they have broken the rules and therfore must be punished.    This is why before attempting any form of discipline with an adult dog,one must be sure of dog’s temperament and how dog views owner.    An adult dominant dog that has seriously bit a family member usually at some point has to be put down and rightfully so. Of course this can all be prevented through proper dog selection,management,early training and extensive socialization. Bob Maida

Response:

: Hi, :    Scruff shake,roll over,muzzle grab,etc.,and other "alpha" as some : trainers call it ,can some times trigger a serious bite. Especially if : it’s a mature dog and weighing 50lbs.or more. Don’t rule out all the : little guys,for some of them can also do damage. :   Dogs respond properly to that type of correction only if you are : "alpha",which is really a state of mind, a presence. It really has nothing : to do with corrections. : Yes the pack subordinate would respond submisively to an attack on it by a : higher ranking dog,unless of course it chooses to fight. Especially if the : leader has not been taken too seriously up to that point. This is how the : pet owner gets bit, or is engaged in a constant struggle with dog. :   Discipline does not establish dominance,although it does maintain the : order once the leadership is not in question. The discipline when : administered sounds worse than it really is. Usually just an inhibited : bite that doesn’t break the skin,but is effective. It doesn’t have to : break the skin,for the dog being attacked,saw the alpha dogs eyes,snarl : and immediately submitted to prevent injury to himself. It’s quite an : interesting ritualized display. :   It’s always safer and more effective to work along with a trainer. A : trainer can evaluate dogs temperament,level of sensitivity,as well as your : capabilities. Then come up with suggestions that are safe,humane,and fair. : Talk with vets,shelters, breeders,etc. Describe behaviors,see who they : recommend. :   In the interim,a subtle back door way to establish dominance is to live : like the leader does. Dog can sleep in bedroom but not on bed. :                    Dog should be with you as you eat,but don’t let him : stare or beg.Heavens don’t feed him.He should not be sitting hungerly : eyeing your dinner. Instead he is to lie down parallel to you as you sit. : He’ll need some training for this. :    Put all fetch toys away. He can have his chew toys,just don’t you play : with them. Take out the toy after he’s had an on leash walk(20minute walk) : and play fetch. If dog gets bored after five tosses, then stop at three. : You’ll keep him motivated. Gradually add on more tosses till he’ll do : dozens. You have to keep him motivated. It’s similar to the way "sniffer" : dogs are trained. You cannot force a dog to detect. It takes motivation : and teamwork. :   Don’t play tug,chase,wrestle or rough house,this only encourages his : dominance of you. You also become a litttermate in his eyes. Would you let : a classmate or twin sibling dominate you? :   Those of you out there that do have a dog that is being difficult,formal : training and sensible mangement will always make it better. Geve it a try. :    Bob Maida : Take out the fetch toy only when you decide to play. Not when he wants to.   Bob, you are very knowledgable about dog psychology.  Your recommendations about dog discipline and living with dogs are excellent.   There is one thing with which I disagree-  that is that I do not feel that a dog who is biting it’s owner is a suitable housepet.  Of course, I do not mean situations where the dog is in extreme pain, or the middle of a dog fight.  I mean unprovoked dominant biting.

Response:

Hi,    Scruff shake,roll over,muzzle grab,etc.,and other "alpha" as some trainers call it ,can some times trigger a serious bite. Especially if it’s a mature dog and weighing 50lbs.or more. Don’t rule out all the little guys,for some of them can also do damage.   Dogs respond properly to that type of correction only if you are "alpha",which is really a state of mind, a presence. It really has nothing to do with corrections. Yes the pack subordinate would respond submisively to an attack on it by a higher ranking dog,unless of course it chooses to fight. Especially if the leader has not been taken too seriously up to that point. This is how the pet owner gets bit, or is engaged in a constant struggle with dog.   Discipline does not establish dominance,although it does maintain the order once the leadership is not in question. The discipline when administered sounds worse than it really is. Usually just an inhibited bite that doesn’t break the skin,but is effective. It doesn’t have to break the skin,for the dog being attacked,saw the alpha dogs eyes,snarl and immediately submitted to prevent injury to himself. It’s quite an interesting ritualized display.   It’s always safer and more effective to work along with a trainer. A trainer can evaluate dogs temperament,level of sensitivity,as well as your capabilities. Then come up with suggestions that are safe,humane,and fair. Talk with vets,shelters, breeders,etc. Describe behaviors,see who they recommend. Recommended reading; Man Meets Dog by Konrad Lorenz                                    Understanding Your Dog by Dr.Michael Fox                                    Dog Behavior by Dr.Ian Dunbar                 People,Pooches,and Problems by Job Evans   In the interim,a subtle back door way to establish dominance is to live like the leader does. Dog can sleep in bedroom but not on bed.                    Dog should be with you as you eat,but don’t let him stare or beg.Heavens don’t feed him.He should not be sitting hungerly eyeing your dinner. Instead he is to lie down parallel to you as you sit. He’ll need some training for this.    Put all fetch toys away. He can have his chew toys,just don’t you play with them. Take out the toy after he’s had an on leash walk(20minute walk) and play fetch. If dog gets bored after five tosses, then stop at three. You’ll keep him motivated. Gradually add on more tosses till he’ll do dozens. You have to keep him motivated. It’s similar to the way "sniffer" dogs are trained. You cannot force a dog to detect. It takes motivation and teamwork.   Don’t play tug,chase,wrestle or rough house,this only encourages his dominance of you. You also become a litttermate in his eyes. Would you let a classmate or twin sibling dominate you?   Those of you out there that do have a dog that is being difficult,formal training and sensible mangement will always make it better. Geve it a try.    Bob Maida Take out the fetch toy only when you decide to play. Not when he wants to.

Response:

>You are on the right track by "growling" back, but you need to >physically put the dog down on his back and require that he stay there >until he shows signs of submission.  ie  looking away, tucking his >tail etc.  Let him up immediately and ignore him.  This can be >effective with dogs before they reach the serious protest biting >stage.  With this method you are disciplining in the same manner used >by a mother dog or "Alpha" male. >I will also grab them by their little doggie cheeks and shake >the living fire out of them while I’m growling no at them.

On a similar note it was recommended to me that I grab the dog at the back of the neck and shake vigorously as this mimics the way in which the mother corrects her pups. I also make a habit of placing my hand in my dogs food bowl as they are eating, only for a few seconds, and allowing their teeth to touch my hand thus letting them know that I am boss. I would however NOT suggest you do this with your unpredictable dog at this stage. It is very important that you are the leader as having a dog you can not trust is not only dangerous but no pleasure. Good luck. Peter.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello SD >My daughters and I had a bad experience tonight with growling and teeth >baring 9 month old dalmation/lab, and turned to >this newsgroup for some good advice (which you seem to have).  You mentioned >in this article and another that >professional training is necessary, and I agree, but could you tell us >of some basic behaviours we humans need to do to to get a handle on a >newly displayed behaviour problem while it is happening and until we can >get into a class?. It seems aggressiveness (snarling, snapping, baring teeth >and even biting when disciplined) seems to be a curable problem, and I’m >hoping it will indeed be so. > We live in a rural area, and there is a limited >amount of trainers. >Consequently, we must wait several weeks to get started in a class.  Some >pointers to tide us over until then would be invaluable.  I’m quite >concerned that this normally happy, yet hard to control puppy may turn >on one of the children when they try to discipline him as he has done to >me .  I hate to have to leave him caged, but I truly don’t know what else >to do.  The vet told me not to allow him to growl at me–to make it very >clear to him I am boss, but I’m out of ideas, breath, voice.  I’ve not hit >him with anything but a newspaper (or occasionally when he nips, my hand, >but not hard), I’ve tried making myself big (arms in the air, stepping >forward to him–ie pretending I was a dog too, but bigger and badder), >yelling, growling myself.  Once he cowared, but not anymore. >We would really appreciate any suggestions you may have.

Obviously the best time to deal with this behavior is when puppies are small enough to be easily dealt with physically.  The correction for an older dog requires coordination, timing and know how.  As much as I wish I were in a position to help you, I would hate for you to be bitten attempting something that you do not have the skills for.   I can recommend going to your nearest library and seeing if they have training books available by William Koehler.  Bill addresses how to handle biting dogs at length, and from experience I can tell you his techniques very very effective. You are on the right track by "growling" back, but you need to physically put the dog down on his back and require that he stay there until he shows signs of submission.  ie  looking away, tucking his tail etc.  Let him up immediately and ignore him.  This can be effective with dogs before they reach the serious protest biting stage.  With this method you are disciplining in the same manner used by a mother dog or "Alpha" male.  Struggling is not submission, so be prepared to keep him down.  The degree of the correction should always be in proportion with the offense.  This is one reason to seek a professional.  You should NEVER correct a biter by striking with your hand.  I will also grab them by their little doggie cheeks and shake the living fire out of them while I’m growling no at them. Most obedience classes only teach basic commands, come, sit, down, etc.  alot of instructors will not deal with certain behavioral problems so please check this out before spending your money for a class.  Often 3 or 4 private lessons are much more helpful than an 8 week obedience course. Do not attempt to correct a dog if you are not prepared to go all the way with the correction.  You’ll only teach him he can get away with it.  Let me do some checking, I might be able to find you a trainer in your area.  I will send you some names.  It might take me a day or so to get some referrals for you. Keep me posted  and good luck. Susan Dangar Standan Quarter Horses Lampasas, TX

Response:

Hello SD My daughters and I had a bad experience tonight with growling and teeth baring 9 month old dalmation/lab, and turned to this newsgroup for some good advice (which you seem to have).  You mentioned in this article and another that professional training is necessary, and I agree, but could you tell us of some basic behaviours we humans need to do to to get a handle on a newly displayed behaviour problem while it is happening and until we can get into a class?. It seems aggressiveness (snarling, snapping, baring teeth and even biting when disciplined) seems to be a curable problem, and I’m hoping it will indeed be so.  We live in a rural area, and there is a limited amount of trainers. Consequently, we must wait several weeks to get started in a class.  Some pointers to tide us over until then would be invaluable.  I’m quite concerned that this normally happy, yet hard to control puppy may turn on one of the children when they try to discipline him as he has done to me .  I hate to have to leave him caged, but I truly don’t know what else to do.  The vet told me not to allow him to growl at me–to make it very clear to him I am boss, but I’m out of ideas, breath, voice.  I’ve not hit him with anything but a newspaper (or occasionally when he nips, my hand, but not hard), I’ve tried making myself big (arms in the air, stepping forward to him–ie pretending I was a dog too, but bigger and badder), yelling, growling myself.  Once he cowared, but not anymore. We would really appreciate any suggestions you may have. : >Hello: I have a spayed chow-sharpei mix that I rescued from the street. : >Ihave had her for a year now and up until a few months ago she had been a : >wonderful dog. She had had some dominance struggled with my older Samoyed, : >would dare bite me.  My friends and I rationalized that it was only in the : >heat of the moment and that she would never try to bite me again. WRONG!!! : >ever since she bit me she has shown signs of aggression towards me, but not : >towards my boyfriend, who she absolutely adores. This morning she was : >laying on the couch with my boyfriend and I had just given her a treat. I : >was kising her muzzle when unexpectantly she turned around and bit my : >face!! It wasn’t a vicious bite, but nevertheless, she should not have done : >it. : >I was very sad because I do not know what to do with her. I really love her : >a lot but I feel that I cannot handle her. My boyfriend is moving out of : >town to a new job day after tomorrow and he is willing to take Misty with : >him. I don’t know what to do??? He has a male 6 month old, Rhodesian : >RIdgback and he and Misty love each other, so it wouldn’t present much of a : >problem for him.  My question is, has anyone had any experience with this : >kind of behaviour? and if so, did the dogs ever stop biting people.  I want : >to do the right thing for everyone involved. I do not want to euthanize her : >because I think that she is a wonderful dog otherwise. It kills me, so : >please if anyone has any useful advice, please send me an e-mail at : >Thank you in advance : >Lina C. Bueno : >Lina Bueno : >Dept. Oral Biology, Univ. of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32610-0424 : >Tel (904)-846-0760, FAX (904)-392-2361 : Well, I know I’ll get mail over this, but no, this is not unusual with : Chows or Shar-peis (hairless Chows).  I’ve specialised in problem dogs : for a number of years and have seen more of this behavior in Chows and : Chow mixes than any other breeds.  I know of a groomer whose face was : severely mauled by a Chow she had groomed for 5 years and she wasn’t : even touching the dog at the time of the attack.  She was just : standing and conversing with another groomer.  As I stated in a : previous post, your dog has not accepted you as having a dominant : postion over her and figures she got away with it once and she now : feels free to do so again. : If your boyfriend is willing to take the dog, he needs to be aware of : his "pack postion" as well.  Has he ever made this dog do anything she : didn’t want to do? : Many people are not capable of dealing with a biting dog in an : appropriate manner.  I recommend professional assistance. : Susan Dangar : Standan Quarter Horses : Lampasas, TX

Response:

Hi,   Unfortunately you have a mix that’s trouble. Both Chows and Shar-pei can be aggressive with other dogs. Her behavior with you is also not unusual(but it’s unacceptable and inappropiate).    Kissing an aggressive dog may only lead to a bite. For if she is top dog(which she thinks) she only get annoyed when you show (what she deems)puppy appeasement gestures such as licking or kissing. Your getting bit in the midle of a dog fight can happen with anyone. She may have thoght your hand grip was the othe dog biting her or felt you had no right to bite her.   You need in person professional help. An obedience class will not solve your problems,but it will help to enroll in such. Talk with vet,shelter,rescue and decribe behaviors. See if they can refer you to someone that works with behavior problems.    In the meantime avoid all behaviors that trigger aggression. Do keep dogs away from her she does not know. Recommended reading:People,Pooches,andProblems by Job Evans(Howell Book House) Good luck and let me know what happens with your follow-through. Bob Maida

Response:

Hello: I have a spayed chow-sharpei mix that I rescued from the street. Ihave had her for a year now and up until a few months ago she had been a wonderful dog. She had had some dominance struggled with my older Samoyed, but they have worked everything out pretty well. Anyway, during the summer I fostered an abused Samoyed and she and my chow-sharpei had several nasty dog fights. Unfortunately I came in between them on a couple of occassions and I became the recipient of a couple of bad bites from MY DOG!!! I was shocked, dissapointed and extremely sad that this wonderful little dog would dare bite me.  My friends and I rationalized that it was only in the heat of the moment and that she would never try to bite me again. WRONG!!! ever since she bit me she has shown signs of aggression towards me, but not towards my boyfriend, who she absolutely adores. This morning she was laying on the couch with my boyfriend and I had just given her a treat. I was kising her muzzle when unexpectantly she turned around and bit my face!! It wasn’t a vicious bite, but nevertheless, she should not have done it. I was very sad because I do not know what to do with her. I really love her a lot but I feel that I cannot handle her. My boyfriend is moving out of town to a new job day after tomorrow and he is willing to take Misty with him. I don’t know what to do??? He has a male 6 month old, Rhodesian RIdgback and he and Misty love each other, so it wouldn’t present much of a problem for him.  My question is, has anyone had any experience with this kind of behaviour? and if so, did the dogs ever stop biting people.  I want to do the right thing for everyone involved. I do not want to euthanize her because I think that she is a wonderful dog otherwise. It kills me, so please if anyone has any useful advice, please send me an e-mail at Thank you in advance Lina C. Bueno Lina Bueno Dept. Oral Biology, Univ. of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32610-0424 Tel (904)-846-0760, FAX (904)-392-2361

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