Question:

Nice double talk, doc, Howe can I introduce extinction to reduce the frequency of your undesirable behavior (crummy dog training advice) and reinforce an incompatible response (learning and using some valid information about dog training advice)? Not an easy task, but I’m working on it, doc. Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?: If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, shock, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training   http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.                       -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after.  Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all.                      -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding.                   -Jerry Howe- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nice job PennyWise! > You apparently introduced extinction to reduce the frequency of an > undesirable behavior (jumping up) and reinforced an incompatible response > (sitting). > Congratulations! > –Marshall

Response:

> When I tried holding my dogs paws all he wanted to do was dance with me.

Clever pup. > The best thing I have tried is when the dog jumps up walk into him.

Ranger doesn’t so much jump up as LAUNCH himself.  Forty-five pounds of flying Cattle Dog can be a bit of a jolt.  IF he connects.  Usually I can wait until he’s airborne and then just step out of the way. As far as jumping up to greet people at the door, we stopped that by rearranging the furniture.  Now he stands on the back of the sofa to say "hi!" to all his new bestest friends.  YMMV, of course. And people wonder why my dogs aren’t intimidated by agility equipment … M.

Response:

>I had the same problem with my 4month old lab Cody, people here >recommended that i just turn my back on the dog and ignore him when he >gets excited like that, after a little time the dog will realize that >when he jumps up he gets ignored and will stop jumping up on you, i >have alot of visitors to my house so i simply asked them to do the >same(turn around), it took a little while, but it really worked!!! The >key is ALWAYS turn your back when he jumps up, tell him to sit down >and reward him as soon as he’s sitting. My lab now just walks over to >people and sits right by their feet and waits for a pet hello.. Good >luck! Hope this helps you.

Nice job PennyWise! You apparently introduced extinction to reduce the frequency of an undesirable behavior (jumping up) and reinforced an incompatible response (sitting). Congratulations! –Marshall

Response:

Hello, When I tried holding my dogs paws all he wanted to do was dance with me. The best thing I have tried is when the dog jumps up walk into him.  That way your taking his space and he is not taking yours.  With visitors I suggest you keep him on a lead  until he learns a DOWN STAY.    I hope I helped. Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi Darien >It is very important at this stage in your dogs life to take him to >obedience school. The lessons he learns now will help him to be a well >mannered dog when he is full grown and about 40 pounds heavier. >    One thing you could try is to get you dog a halti. It fits around his >nose much like a horse halter. This will really help stop him from pulling >you. >    When someone comes into the house have your dog on this and have him in >a sit. then take him to the person and ask them to get down to the pups >level to say hi. This way he doesn’t have to jump up. >    Also if he jumps up on you, try holding his paws and keep him up. After >a few minutes he will find this very tiring.  He will soon get the message >if you do this every time he jumps up/ >    Good luck with your dog. Hope this helps. >            Valerie >Hi.I’m a 12 year old with a 8 month old Lab. Evreytime someone new comes in >the room, he will jump up on them or drag me across the room to greet the >new person. Any tips on how to teach him not to do this? >Darien’s owner

Response:

Hi Darien It is very important at this stage in your dogs life to take him to obedience school. The lessons he learns now will help him to be a well mannered dog when he is full grown and about 40 pounds heavier.     One thing you could try is to get you dog a halti. It fits around his nose much like a horse halter. This will really help stop him from pulling you.     When someone comes into the house have your dog on this and have him in a sit. then take him to the person and ask them to get down to the pups level to say hi. This way he doesn’t have to jump up.     Also if he jumps up on you, try holding his paws and keep him up. After a few minutes he will find this very tiring.  He will soon get the message if you do this every time he jumps up/     Good luck with your dog. Hope this helps.             Valerie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi.I’m a 12 year old with a 8 month old Lab. Evreytime someone new comes in >the room, he will jump up on them or drag me across the room to greet the >new person. Any tips on how to teach him not to do this? >Darien’s owner

Response:

I had the same problem with my 4month old lab Cody, people here recommended that i just turn my back on the dog and ignore him when he gets excited like that, after a little time the dog will realize that when he jumps up he gets ignored and will stop jumping up on you, i have alot of visitors to my house so i simply asked them to do the same(turn around), it took a little while, but it really worked!!! The key is ALWAYS turn your back when he jumps up, tell him to sit down and reward him as soon as he’s sitting. My lab now just walks over to people and sits right by their feet and waits for a pet hello.. Good luck! Hope this helps you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi.I’m a 12 year old with a 8 month old Lab. Evreytime someone new comes in >the room, he will jump up on them or drag me across the room to greet the >new person. Any tips on how to teach him not to do this? >Darien’s owner

Response:

Hi.I’m a 12 year old with a 8 month old Lab. Evreytime someone new comes in the room, he will jump up on them or drag me across the room to greet the new person. Any tips on how to teach him not to do this? Darien’s owner

Response:

> that would be GREAT!!!!!

Sure would be. Then all we got to do is stop her from telling people to hurt dogs, huh? Hello cindymoron, Since when does the WHISTLE BLOWER become guilty of the actions of the ACCUSED whom they’ve BLOWN THE WHISTLE ON? WHATEVER I DO, does NOT EXONERATE YOU from the PITIFUL and CRUEL ACTIONS YOU USE AND TEACH… YOU twist and pinch ears and toes. I do not. YOU HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM. I DO NOT. YOU, are TRYING to say that WHAT I DO IS MOORE WRONG THAN WHAT YOU DO… That is because YOU lack, MORALS, CONSCIENCE, AND ETHICS. I do not… I’ll address what YOU THINK what I do is WRONG (something that YOU fabricated, my methods have NEVER been discussed), AFTER we’ve discussed WHAT YOU DO THAT IS CRUEL and INHUMANE… What you are attempting to do isn’t going to cut it around here, because I do not do the pinching and twisting and choking and HURTING DOGS. YOU DO> Does anybody know HOWE a dog sounds when he’s SQUEALING because his ears or toes are being pinched and twisted? Cindy moore does. Ask her. She’ll tell you she doesn’t twist? She’ll tell you she doesn’t hurt? She’ll tell you that FEAR, FORCE, AND PUNISHMENT is necessary for ALL ADVANCED TRAINING, to enhance the bond between "trainer" and dog and achieve the higher aspects of obedience through TWISTING and PINCHING EARS and TOES, and BEATING DOGS WITH STICKS… Let’s hear cindy moore and pals SQUEAL for a change. Ask her about the toe hitch. Ask her about "table work." Ask her why she HURTS dogs, and calls that training? Ask her why she WON’T answer these questions like her pal lyingfrostydahly did below, when she EARNED HER LYING TITLE??? Here’s what your respected amy dahl has to say about ear and toe pinching and twisting and BEATING DOGS WITH STICKS. TELL US YOU DON’T DO THE SAME THINGS…: >> I don’t beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? > Isn’t that YOUR OWN WORDS??? But YOU don’t DO > THAT???

People, this is HOWE consistency works, and most particularly well with dogs, because here, the same methods are being used to INFLUENCE YOU, and YOU certainly are more intellectually capable of solving problems and have greater critical thinking skills than your dogs…, and these methods work on YOU> > That article, reprinted from The Retriever Journal, is > the words of my husband John and myself.

Meaning "We’ll share the credit, making it more credible??? Or we’ll share the blame, to mitigate our own individual responsibility and guilt…" YOU decide, it’s not my business where the blame falls. > For the benefit of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses > not to read the article, there is NO mention in it of "twisting > ears,"

From the text">>>" ">>>Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.>>> "but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch>>> You can press the dog’s ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb;>>> even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that>>> Make the dog’s need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.>>> Say "fetch" while pressing the dummy against its lips and pinching its ear.>>> the dog still does not open its mouth, get out the shotshell. Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in>>>" Right… Didn’t lyingfrostydahly just deny all of that? There’s more… That was just a little about ear pinching, and no there was NO MENTION of twisting ears… cindy moore has all that information for you… But does it really matter, the semantics of whether we’re twisting or pinching or slapping or hitting??? These are the subtle differences between being an expert dog trainer and some morally bankrupt vicious rotten abusive cretin that goes to jail for abusing dogs…  But don’t lose interest now, there’s more… > NO mention whatsoever of dogs’ toes in any context, > and NO mention of "beating" dogs.

Right, lyingfrostydahly: ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply.>>> With your hand on the collar and ear, say, "fetch." Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy. Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog,>>>" Wouldn’t you think that was despicable enough even just writing that, let alone risk suffering the embarrassment of not only having that attributed to yourself, but in fact denying your best work and PROVING YOURSELF A SHAMELESS LIAR AND ADVOCATE OF DOG ABUSER??? But it goes on…  >>> chuck (for the uninitiated, "chuck" means strike) the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while saying  "No!">>> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!">>>  use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear and place the dummy in its mouth. If it doesn’t make rapid progress, you can increase the pressure by requiring it to pick up the dropped dummy (stay on the ear until it does).>>> (perhaps because the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided it isn’t worth it).>>> pinch its ear and say, "fetch,">>> Here we have consistency and a plea for reason, directly in contradiction to the blackman and white facts signed and published by our expert trainer…  Accordingly, the consistency of constant repetitions of your requests for understanding and compliance from your dogs, dictates that YOU WILL GET IT, so long as you are consistent and keep repeating the exact same scenario, no matter what… Including and especially when you calculatedly and intentionally deny the truth and make your requests seem reasonable. > In our training we do not do any of these things, nor do we > advocate them to others.

"Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it. This is HOWE they get that happy excited working attitude that they all talk about… That’s their criteria for making their dogs happy, willing team mates… > Jerry Howe has once again demonstrated his lack of > reading comprehension.

Right. Perhaps that’s because I get a little disturbed with all of the abuse, and I begin reading more into it than what the author intended???… "Slip an empty shotshell into your pocket before the next session. As always, begin with some review. Then sit the dog. Take hold of its buckle collar and ear as follows. Slide the last three fingers of your left hand towards the dog’s head under the collar, and curl them over the collar to grasp it firmly. With your thumb and index finger, pull the dog’s left ear back over the collar (inside up) and hold it there gently. The "ear pinch" is administered by pressing with your thumbnail at the boundary between hair and bare skin (don’t pinch yet). Depending on the size and strength of your hands, you may want to press against the collar or against your index finger.>>>You want it to get the idea that the ear-pinch means,>>> If the dog clenches its mouth shut, you may be in for another extended session. Keep pinching and press the dummy harder against the dog’s lips. Repeat "fetch." Again, keep your voice calm. If several minutes pass and>>> You want the dog to think that it is "beating the pinch" Any time it is slow, pinch!>>> As mentioned previously, it is important not to establish a pattern of struggling with the dog physically. If you cannot physically restrain the dog, increasing the pressure may do the trick.>>> Be sure you are in position with your hold on collar and ear every time you give the command," Here’s a couple MORE quotes from the links above, from our own respected Amy Dahl’s published text: "it transfers much of the momentum-producing power of the ear pinch to the stick, thus providing a basis for force-on-back. you want to make the dog think that by going fast it can avoid the stick. >>>  As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch. When the dog is digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch, you are finished>>> This is continued resistance to your increasing authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome.we do not recommend that inexperienced trainers use this heavy-handed approach. > — > Amy Frost Dahl   Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 > Pinehurst, NC 28370

Lets move on, and get this past us. This should be totally ignored, and everyone can forget all about it, like it doesn’t happen… That’s what these people are trying to get you to believe, and that’s what all the commotion is about… Please do not quote my messages in their entirety, because it may be upsetting to others with weak stomachs and human conscience… ">>>and pinch its ear if a dummy or bird is ever dropped. While force-fetching is now complete, training has become more varied and interesting and we are sure you will want to continue.>>>" I don’t think so… Bye, bye, cindymoron!!!

Response:

> I DON’T WANNA DO THAT.  You see, you both offer good advice.  I don’t wanna > block that out!  <whine>

Sure. Here’s some more: Hello cindymoron, Since when does the WHISTLE BLOWER become guilty of the actions of the ACCUSED whom they’ve BLOWN THE WHISTLE ON? WHATEVER I DO, does NOT EXONERATE YOU from the PITIFUL and CRUEL ACTIONS YOU USE AND TEACH… YOU twist and pinch ears and toes. I do not. YOU HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM. I DO NOT. YOU, are TRYING to say that WHAT I DO IS MOORE WRONG THAN WHAT YOU DO… That is because YOU lack, MORALS, CONSCIENCE, AND ETHICS. I do not… I’ll address what YOU THINK what I do is WRONG (something that YOU fabricated, my methods have NEVER been discussed), AFTER we’ve discussed WHAT YOU DO THAT IS CRUEL and INHUMANE… What you are attempting to do isn’t going to cut it around here, because I do not do the pinching and twisting and choking and HURTING DOGS. YOU DO> Does anybody know HOWE a dog sounds when he’s SQUEALING because his ears or toes are being pinched and twisted? Cindy moore does. Ask her. She’ll tell you she doesn’t twist? She’ll tell you she doesn’t hurt? She’ll tell you that FEAR, FORCE, AND PUNISHMENT is necessary for ALL ADVANCED TRAINING, to enhance the bond between "trainer" and dog and achieve the higher aspects of obedience through TWISTING and PINCHING EARS and TOES, and BEATING DOGS WITH STICKS… Let’s hear cindy moore and pals SQUEAL for a change. Ask her about the toe hitch. Ask her about "table work." Ask her why she HURTS dogs, and calls that training? Ask her why she WON’T answer these questions like her pal lyingfrostydahly did below, when she EARNED HER LYING TITLE??? Here’s what your respected amy dahl has to say about ear and toe pinching and twisting and BEATING DOGS WITH STICKS. TELL US YOU DON’T DO THE SAME THINGS…: >> I don’t beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? > Isn’t that YOUR OWN WORDS??? But YOU don’t DO > THAT???

People, this is HOWE consistency works, and most particularly well with dogs, because here, the same methods are being used to INFLUENCE YOU, and YOU certainly are more intellectually capable of solving problems and have greater critical thinking skills than your dogs…, and these methods work on YOU> > That article, reprinted from The Retriever Journal, is > the words of my husband John and myself.

Meaning "We’ll share the credit, making it more credible??? Or we’ll share the blame, to mitigate our own individual responsibility and guilt…" YOU decide, it’s not my business where the blame falls. > For the benefit of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses > not to read the article, there is NO mention in it of "twisting > ears,"

From the text">>>" ">>>Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.>>> "but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch>>> You can press the dog’s ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb;>>> even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that>>> Make the dog’s need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.>>> Say "fetch" while pressing the dummy against its lips and pinching its ear.>>> the dog still does not open its mouth, get out the shotshell. Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in>>>" Right… Didn’t lyingfrostydahly just deny all of that? There’s more… That was just a little about ear pinching, and no there was NO MENTION of twisting ears… cindy moore has all that information for you… But does it really matter, the semantics of whether we’re twisting or pinching or slapping or hitting??? These are the subtle differences between being an expert dog trainer and some morally bankrupt vicious rotten abusive cretin that goes to jail for abusing dogs…  But don’t lose interest now, there’s more… > NO mention whatsoever of dogs’ toes in any context, > and NO mention of "beating" dogs.

Right, lyingfrostydahly: ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply.>>> With your hand on the collar and ear, say, "fetch." Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy. Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog,>>>" Wouldn’t you think that was despicable enough even just writing that, let alone risk suffering the embarrassment of not only having that attributed to yourself, but in fact denying your best work and PROVING YOURSELF A SHAMELESS LIAR AND ADVOCATE OF DOG ABUSER??? But it goes on…  >>> chuck (for the uninitiated, "chuck" means strike) the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while saying  "No!">>> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!">>>  use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear and place the dummy in its mouth. If it doesn’t make rapid progress, you can increase the pressure by requiring it to pick up the dropped dummy (stay on the ear until it does).>>> (perhaps because the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided it isn’t worth it).>>> pinch its ear and say, "fetch,">>> Here we have consistency and a plea for reason, directly in contradiction to the blackman and white facts signed and published by our expert trainer…  Accordingly, the consistency of constant repetitions of your requests for understanding and compliance from your dogs, dictates that YOU WILL GET IT, so long as you are consistent and keep repeating the exact same scenario, no matter what… Including and especially when you calculatedly and intentionally deny the truth and make your requests seem reasonable. > In our training we do not do any of these things, nor do we > advocate them to others.

"Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it. This is HOWE they get that happy excited working attitude that they all talk about… That’s their criteria for making their dogs happy, willing team mates… > Jerry Howe has once again demonstrated his lack of > reading comprehension.

Right. Perhaps that’s because I get a little disturbed with all of the abuse, and I begin reading more into it than what the author intended???… "Slip an empty shotshell into your pocket before the next session. As always, begin with some review. Then sit the dog. Take hold of its buckle collar and ear as follows. Slide the last three fingers of your left hand towards the dog’s head under the collar, and curl them over the collar to grasp it firmly. With your thumb and index finger, pull the dog’s left ear back over the collar (inside up) and hold it there gently. The "ear pinch" is administered by pressing with your thumbnail at the boundary between hair and bare skin (don’t pinch yet). Depending on the size and strength of your hands, you may want to press against the collar or against your index finger.>>>You want it to get the idea that the ear-pinch means,>>> If the dog clenches its mouth shut, you may be in for another extended session. Keep pinching and press the dummy harder against the dog’s lips. Repeat "fetch." Again, keep your voice calm. If several minutes pass and>>> You want the dog to think that it is "beating the pinch" Any time it is slow, pinch!>>> As mentioned previously, it is important not to establish a pattern of struggling with the dog physically. If you cannot physically restrain the dog, increasing the pressure may do the trick.>>> Be sure you are in position with your hold on collar and ear every time you give the command," Here’s a couple MORE quotes from the links above, from our own respected Amy Dahl’s published text: "it transfers much of the momentum-producing power of the ear pinch to the stick, thus providing a basis for force-on-back. you want to make the dog think that by going fast it can avoid the stick. >>>  As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch. When the dog is digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch, you are finished>>> This is continued resistance to your increasing authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome.we do not recommend that inexperienced trainers use this heavy-handed approach. > — > Amy Frost Dahl   Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 > Pinehurst, NC 28370

Lets move on, and get this past us. This should be totally ignored, and everyone can forget all about it, like it doesn’t happen… That’s what these people are trying to get you to believe, and that’s what all the commotion is about… Please do not quote my messages in their entirety, because it may be upsetting to others with weak stomachs and human conscience… ">>>and pinch its ear if a dummy or bird is ever dropped. While force-fetching is now complete, training has become more varied and interesting and we are sure you will want to continue.>>>" I don’t think so… Bye, bye, cindymoron!!!

Response:

Hello cindymoron, Since when does the WHISTLE BLOWER become guilty of the actions of the ACCUSED whom they’ve BLOWN THE WHISTLE ON? WHATEVER I DO, does NOT EXONERATE YOU from the PITIFUL and CRUEL ACTIONS YOU USE AND TEACH… YOU twist and pinch ears and toes. I do not. YOU HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM. I DO NOT. YOU, are TRYING to say that WHAT I DO IS MOORE WRONG THAN WHAT YOU DO… That is because YOU lack, MORALS, CONSCIENCE, AND ETHICS. I do not… I’ll address what YOU THINK what I do is WRONG (something that YOU fabricated, my methods have NEVER been discussed), AFTER we’ve discussed WHAT YOU DO THAT IS CRUEL and INHUMANE… What you are attempting to do isn’t going to cut it around here, because I do not do the pinching and twisting and choking and HURTING DOGS. YOU DO> Does anybody know HOWE a dog sounds when he’s SQUEALING because his ears or toes are being pinched and twisted? Cindy moore does. Ask her. She’ll tell you she doesn’t twist? She’ll tell you she doesn’t hurt? She’ll tell you that FEAR, FORCE, AND PUNISHMENT is necessary for ALL ADVANCED TRAINING, to enhance the bond between "trainer" and dog and achieve the higher aspects of obedience through TWISTING and PINCHING EARS and TOES, and BEATING DOGS WITH STICKS… Let’s hear cindy moore and pals SQUEAL for a change. Ask her about the toe hitch. Ask her about "table work." Ask her why she HURTS dogs, and calls that training? Ask her why she WON’T answer these questions like her pal lyingfrostydahly did below, when she EARNED HER LYING TITLE??? Here’s what your respected amy dahl has to say about ear and toe pinching and twisting and BEATING DOGS WITH STICKS. TELL US YOU DON’T DO THE SAME THINGS…: >> I don’t beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? > Isn’t that YOUR OWN WORDS??? But YOU don’t DO > THAT???

People, this is HOWE consistency works, and most particularly well with dogs, because here, the same methods are being used to INFLUENCE YOU, and YOU certainly are more intellectually capable of solving problems and have greater critical thinking skills than your dogs…, and these methods work on YOU> > That article, reprinted from The Retriever Journal, is > the words of my husband John and myself.

Meaning "We’ll share the credit, making it more credible??? Or we’ll share the blame, to mitigate our own individual responsibility and guilt…" YOU decide, it’s not my business where the blame falls. > For the benefit of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses > not to read the article, there is NO mention in it of "twisting > ears,"

From the text">>>" ">>>Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.>>> "but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch>>> You can press the dog’s ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb;>>> even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that>>> Make the dog’s need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.>>> Say "fetch" while pressing the dummy against its lips and pinching its ear.>>> the dog still does not open its mouth, get out the shotshell. Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in>>>" Right… Didn’t lyingfrostydahly just deny all of that? There’s more… That was just a little about ear pinching, and no there was NO MENTION of twisting ears… cindy moore has all that information for you… But does it really matter, the semantics of whether we’re twisting or pinching or slapping or hitting??? These are the subtle differences between being an expert dog trainer and some morally bankrupt vicious rotten abusive cretin that goes to jail for abusing dogs…  But don’t lose interest now, there’s more… > NO mention whatsoever of dogs’ toes in any context, > and NO mention of "beating" dogs.

Right, lyingfrostydahly: ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply.>>> With your hand on the collar and ear, say, "fetch." Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy. Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog,>>>" Wouldn’t you think that was despicable enough even just writing that, let alone risk suffering the embarrassment of not only having that attributed to yourself, but in fact denying your best work and PROVING YOURSELF A SHAMELESS LIAR AND ADVOCATE OF DOG ABUSER??? But it goes on…  >>> chuck (for the uninitiated, "chuck" means strike) the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while saying  "No!">>> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!">>>  use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear and place the dummy in its mouth. If it doesn’t make rapid progress, you can increase the pressure by requiring it to pick up the dropped dummy (stay on the ear until it does).>>> (perhaps because the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided it isn’t worth it).>>> pinch its ear and say, "fetch,">>> Here we have consistency and a plea for reason, directly in contradiction to the blackman and white facts signed and published by our expert trainer…  Accordingly, the consistency of constant repetitions of your requests for understanding and compliance from your dogs, dictates that YOU WILL GET IT, so long as you are consistent and keep repeating the exact same scenario, no matter what… Including and especially when you calculatedly and intentionally deny the truth and make your requests seem reasonable. > In our training we do not do any of these things, nor do we > advocate them to others.

"Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it. This is HOWE they get that happy excited working attitude that they all talk about… That’s their criteria for making their dogs happy, willing team mates… > Jerry Howe has once again demonstrated his lack of > reading comprehension.

Right. Perhaps that’s because I get a little disturbed with all of the abuse, and I begin reading more into it than what the author intended???… "Slip an empty shotshell into your pocket before the next session. As always, begin with some review. Then sit the dog. Take hold of its buckle collar and ear as follows. Slide the last three fingers of your left hand towards the dog’s head under the collar, and curl them over the collar to grasp it firmly. With your thumb and index finger, pull the dog’s left ear back over the collar (inside up) and hold it there gently. The "ear pinch" is administered by pressing with your thumbnail at the boundary between hair and bare skin (don’t pinch yet). Depending on the size and strength of your hands, you may want to press against the collar or against your index finger.>>>You want it to get the idea that the ear-pinch means,>>> If the dog clenches its mouth shut, you may be in for another extended session. Keep pinching and press the dummy harder against the dog’s lips. Repeat "fetch." Again, keep your voice calm. If several minutes pass and>>> You want the dog to think that it is "beating the pinch" Any time it is slow, pinch!>>> As mentioned previously, it is important not to establish a pattern of struggling with the dog physically. If you cannot physically restrain the dog, increasing the pressure may do the trick.>>> Be sure you are in position with your hold on collar and ear every time you give the command," Here’s a couple MORE quotes from the links above, from our own respected Amy Dahl’s published text: "it transfers much of the momentum-producing power of the ear pinch to the stick, thus providing a basis for force-on-back. you want to make the dog think that by going fast it can avoid the stick. >>>  As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch. When the dog is digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch, you are finished>>> This is continued resistance to your increasing authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome.we do not recommend that inexperienced trainers use this heavy-handed approach. > — > Amy Frost Dahl   Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 > Pinehurst, NC 28370

Lets move on, and get this past us. This should be totally ignored, and everyone can forget all about it, like it doesn’t happen… That’s what these people are trying to get you to believe, and that’s what all the commotion is about… Please do not quote my messages in their entirety, because it may be upsetting to others with weak stomachs and human conscience… ">>>and pinch its ear if a dummy or bird is ever dropped. While force-fetching is now complete, training has become more varied and interesting and we are sure you will want to continue.>>>" I don’t think so… Bye, bye, cindymoron!!!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Moore said: >>I DON’T WANNA DO THAT.  You see, you both offer good advice.  I don’t wanna >>block that out!  <whine> >>(I’ve been pestering Forte Agent to put content-filters in the next version >>instead of just author-subject) >How about if I try to put BABYDOLL in the subject lines of THOSE posts? > that would be GREAT!!!!!

Yeah I’ll go back to putting CowardlyLyin in too, okay? MB

Response:

I have all of Howe’s incoming messages blocked from being received.  I wish I could eliminate any posts that even contained his name — it would cut down dramatically on the postings I see on this group. Donna

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Before you take any advice from this character, Jerry Howe, I’d ask you > to look at > other ppl’s responses to him, not just mine. This is not a personal grudge > with him, it’s just that I’d like everyone to be fully aware of the type of > person you’re dealing with. >     You will see that some of his OWN words, below, make him out to be a > little on the weird side. Follow his advice at your own risk. >     If you find yourself disagreeing with anything he says, he will verbally > abuse you, accuse you of dog abuse, and finally, most likely, will advise > you on exactly how to commit suicide. Not something I’d like to see anyone > have to go thru. (We all have for over a year now.) > Sincerely, > MaryBeth > >> "If the dog is trained properly, he does not think of his > >> protection > >> training as fun and games at the big dog park. During a protection > >> class, the dogs temperature should go up to 106 and he should have > >> loose stools within two or three minutes of beginning the lesson." > Cindy: > Working a dog to that point deliberately would be absolutely > >> abusive. > jerry: > >RIGHT. IT TAKES >>>>>>>>TWO MINUTES<<<<<<< TO DO THAT… > Cindy: > >> Words fail me at the concept.  The dog can *die* rather horribly > >> this way. > jerry: > >That’s Howe much YOU know. We’re talking >>>>>>two minutes of > "abuse."<<<<<<<<<< > Jerry Howe 2-9-2000 > Actually, they are accustomed to expect the unexpected from me… Did > you FORGET the rest of the instructions? Here, let me help…Check > the chamber, unlock the safety, put the muzzle of the shotgun in your > mouth and suck hard, grasping the barrel firmly with both hands, and > place your big toe into the trigger guard, and GENTLY push… Don’t > worry about the noise, do your arithmatic, physics will protect you > from hearing the sound. That’s the best part, go ahead, you won’t > hear a thing at all… > "No, I don’t like dogs. I don’t like people, either. Dogs are only > animals, put there for us to use in any fashion we see fit." J. Howe > May 22, 1999 > 10/24/1999 > "Before you get me wrong, I’ve got to tell you, I’ve used them > myself. Owned several different brands, too. If I > ever need one, I’ll let you know. They can be useful when all > else fails, for poison proofing, and snake proofing, > where the disease is worse than the cure. I like that. But not > too much. Not till I’ve worked on training the > problem….That I like. You know how popular I am. I need my dogs > poison proofed. So do my students. It’s not > that hard, and it doesn’t usually take long. But, some dogs can > be harder than others to train, especially if > they’ve been trained with food bribes. If there’s a risk of > poisoning, it might help to use the collar to poison proof > them." Jerry Howe

Response:

Before you take any advice from this character, Jerry Howe, I’d ask you to look at other ppl’s responses to him, not just mine. This is not a personal grudge with him, it’s just that I’d like everyone to be fully aware of the type of person you’re dealing with.     You will see that some of his OWN words, below, make him out to be a little on the weird side. Follow his advice at your own risk.     If you find yourself disagreeing with anything he says, he will verbally abuse you, accuse you of dog abuse, and finally, most likely, will advise you on exactly how to commit suicide. Not something I’d like to see anyone have to go thru. (We all have for over a year now.) Sincerely, MaryBeth >> "If the dog is trained properly, he does not think of his >> protection >> training as fun and games at the big dog park. During a protection >> class, the dogs temperature should go up to 106 and he should have >> loose stools within two or three minutes of beginning the lesson."

Cindy: > Working a dog to that point deliberately would be absolutely >> abusive. jerry: >RIGHT. IT TAKES >>>>>>>>TWO MINUTES<<<<<<< TO DO THAT…

Cindy: >> Words fail me at the concept.  The dog can *die* rather horribly >> this way. jerry: >That’s Howe much YOU know. We’re talking >>>>>>two minutes of

"abuse."<<<<<<<<<< Jerry Howe 2-9-2000 > Actually, they are accustomed to expect the unexpected from me… Did > you FORGET the rest of the instructions? Here, let me help…Check > the chamber, unlock the safety, put the muzzle of the shotgun in your > mouth and suck hard, grasping the barrel firmly with both hands, and > place your big toe into the trigger guard, and GENTLY push… Don’t > worry about the noise, do your arithmatic, physics will protect you > from hearing the sound. That’s the best part, go ahead, you won’t > hear a thing at all…

> "No, I don’t like dogs. I don’t like people, either. Dogs are only > animals, put there for us to use in any fashion we see fit." J. Howe > May 22, 1999

10/24/1999 "Before you get me wrong, I’ve got to tell you, I’ve used them myself. Owned several different brands, too. If I ever need one, I’ll let you know. They can be useful when all else fails, for poison proofing, and snake proofing, where the disease is worse than the cure. I like that. But not too much. Not till I’ve worked on training the problem….That I like. You know how popular I am. I need my dogs poison proofed. So do my students. It’s not that hard, and it doesn’t usually take long. But, some dogs can be harder than others to train, especially if they’ve been trained with food bribes. If there’s a risk of poisoning, it might help to use the collar to poison proof them." Jerry Howe

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mae > said: >We have a 4-month Lab mix who will soon outweigh our 6-year-old son.  We are >trying to discourage him from jumping up on people.  I understand the advice >about ignoring him — turning your back on him, but that is a little >difficult for our son.  Soon the dog will be big enough to knock him over. >Also, what about when we are sitting down, for instance on the sofa watching >TV?  What do you do when the dog is constantly jumping up on you? I rub his >belly and pet him when he’s laying next to the sofa, but as soon as I stop, >he starts jumping up on me. > Just last night, I read Cindy Tittle Moore’s discussion about just this > subject.  I found it very helpful. > http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/behavior.html#jumping

Hello wombn, Yeah. More beautiful work from cindy moron. Knee the dog in the chest, pop him on the snout, and twist him down by the ears. That’s just the first paragraph… We know HOWE to HURT dogs, we don’t need our "experts" telling us to hurt our dogs and CALL THAT TRAINING. What’s the matter with you? Don’t you have the ability to see and understand what you are reading? Can’t YOU recognize the caliber of the MIND and the CHARACTER of the person that is telling you to do things that hurt and are counterproductive and will promote animosity and mistrust in the dog? These people are giving crummy advice, and because YOU don’t KNOW ANY BETTER, YOU are going to listen to the people that are having MORE problems with dogs than the people they are advising…Dogs DIE from bad training advice. J>>> "Thus we should beware of clinging to vulgar opinions, and judge things by reason’s way, not by popular say." Montaigne "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Salvor Hardin "If you cannot convince them, confuse them." H.S. Truman. ;~) DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS… J>>> "CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw. "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."                                              Leo Tolstoy Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:                                             caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.                       -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after.  Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all.                      -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding.                   -Jerry Howe-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We have a 4-month Lab mix who will soon outweigh our 6-year-old son.  We are > trying to discourage him from jumping up on people.  I understand the advice > about ignoring him — turning your back on him, but that is a little > difficult for our son.  Soon the dog will be big enough to knock him over. > Also, what about when we are sitting down, for instance on the sofa watching > TV?  What do you do when the dog is constantly jumping up on you? I rub his > belly and pet him when he’s laying next to the sofa, but as soon as I stop, > he starts jumping up on me. > Donna Mae

Hello Donna, Using this technique is the easiest and fastest way to break any behavior. There are a number of things that have to be considered when beginning this approach. A few preliminary exercises in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available at: http://www.doggydoright.com will explain the basic handling techniques you should learn. Using them will insure that the method will work to a high degree of proficiency. The problem is that not many people understand how to use the sound distraction and praise techniques correctly. When you are told that it has been tried and didn’t work, rest assured that whomever "tried" it and for whom it  did not work, did not "try" doing it correctly. I often hear the "experts" here saying they’ve tried it, and it didn’t work for them, or it made their dog nervous. There are people that do not follow directions and get lousy results, and there are people that do not allow the technique adequate repetition to be successful. Those problems will occur if the technique is not done precisely. There is no excuse that these techniques will not work if done correctly, they are a scientific fact. Any sound will suffice. Ideally, the sound would be the same each time, but that is not often possible. A single clap of the hands or snap of the fingers would do, if it were followed by praise, and as long as it does not happen twice in succession from the same point of origin. That’s why several cans are required. You cannot use the same can for more than two occasions in succession. The sound must always be accompanied with praise. The sound must never occur from the same point of origin twice in succession. The sound must be brief. The praise must continue constantly for several seconds following the sound to allow the thought process to be completed. The behavior must be allowed or made to be repeated and interrupted using sound and praise until the behavior is broken. And most importantly,  the moment the dog thinks of resuming the behavior, you must praise him. That’s right. When the dog thinks about resuming the behavior, if you praise him at that exact moment, the previous corrections will be restimulated in the dogs mind, and the behavior will be extinguished. That seems to be the real hard part for the trainers here to understand. They want to make it happen, and they interfere with the dogs thought process. The dog will learn through the process of elimination of alternative actions or behaviors. It takes a few minutes, and the behavior is eliminated, rather than repressed and seething to resume. The trainer will confound his efforts when they insist on telling the dog NO!, instead of relying on the conditioning that has been established. Shouting at the dog will often trigger the opposite of the desired effect. What further complicates the process for the trainer, is that they break the conditioning when they respond with a different corrective technique out of a reflexive reaction of their own, such as screaming No!, or reaching out to grab the dog and physically correcting the dog for a further instance of malbehavior, rather than taking the moment to think about the best way to address the problem, and if necessary search for a can and follow through with the appropriate sound and praise. The process must be carried out using an alternate source of sound for the next interruption. An associate could be enlisted and instructed to clap their hands on signal to accomplish the desired sound interruption. We want the dog to exhaust all of the alternative malbehaviors he can pull out of his bag of tricks, in order for us to extinguish them each in turn. Any time we interact in a behavior by telling the dog no, or physically restrain or correct him, we are becoming part of the behavior, either as a player or competitor in the dogs mischief. Using sound as a distraction must always be followed by immediate, prolonged, non physical praise. Interrupting a behavior with sound should never be associated with us, as in voicing no, or telling the dog to stop it. The behavior should not be distracted with any intervention. We want the behavior to begin again, so that we may have another opportunity to properly address the behavior with another sound and praise. That way, we can completely end a problem while the dog is thinking about it, and we are prepared to address the issue before it becomes out of control. The sound must never occur twice in a row from the same direction. In other words, if you snapped your fingers in front of the dog to stop him from chewing on your shoelace, you’d praise him for five to fifteen seconds immediately upon snapping your fingers. The behavior will hopefully resume, and the next sound of the snap of your fingers must come from behind the dog, or even from a friend assisting from across the room, from a soda can with a few pennies in it, or any source of sound (except our voice!), followed by prolonged non physical praise, until the dog is no longer thinking about the behavior or resumes it. The third interruption of the behavior usually gets the message across, and the dog will think about the behavior for just a moment before engaging in it once again for the fourth and last time… That split second thinking about engaging in the behavior requires praise. Do not react to it with a challenge of shouting no, or physically removing the temptation. That moment of thinking about resuming the behavior and the praise it earns him will validate the prior interruptions of that behavior. The dog then needs to test it out, to be sure that the same behavior will be dealt with in exactly the same manner. They will usually make a fourth attempt at the behavior, and if you follow through appropriately, he will learn not to do that behavior anymore. But only on the one shoelace! He must take that behavior to other instances to fully cease the desire for the behavior. The behavior will not be completely broken until he has taken the process of elimination to the second, third, and fourth opportunity to explore that behavior. And, even at that, you may need to repeat the process in four completely different places. That means that the worst behavior may need up to sixty-four properly timed interruptions and praise. Usually it happens much quicker than that. Breaking a behavior in this manner reduces stress, takes us out of the position of negative enforcer or competitor or playmate, and allows the dog to extinguish a behavior because he simply doesn’t get any satisfaction from it. The other secret is giving the dog a payoff for every time they look at you. Each time you notice eye contact from your dog, you must praise him verbally, to prevent his idle mind from doing the devils work. DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS… J>>> "CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw. "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."                                              Leo Tolstoy Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:                                             caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.                       -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after.  Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all.                      -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding.                   -Jerry Howe-

Response:

Tell us HOWE to do THAT? J>

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Quote: >  turning your back on him, but that is a little > difficult for our son. > Why? > You’ll need to *train* the dog to do something he cannot do while he’s jumping. > Like lie down on command. No reason your son shouldn’t be obeyed on this, as > well as you. > Jane Webb > Mudpie & Moonpie

Response:

We have a 4-month Lab mix who will soon outweigh our 6-year-old son.  We are trying to discourage him from jumping up on people.  I understand the advice about ignoring him — turning your back on him, but that is a little difficult for our son.  Soon the dog will be big enough to knock him over. Also, what about when we are sitting down, for instance on the sofa watching TV?  What do you do when the dog is constantly jumping up on you?  I rub his belly and pet him when he’s laying next to the sofa, but as soon as I stop, he starts jumping up on me. Donna Mae

Response:

Quote:  turning your back on him, but that is a little difficult for our son. Why? You’ll need to *train* the dog to do something he cannot do while he’s jumping. Like lie down on command. No reason your son shouldn’t be obeyed on this, as well as you. Jane Webb Mudpie & Moonpie

Response:

>We have a 4-month Lab mix who will soon outweigh our 6-year-old son.  We are >trying to discourage him from jumping up on people.  I understand the advice >about ignoring him — turning your back on him, but that is a little >difficult for our son.  Soon the dog will be big enough to knock him over. >Also, what about when we are sitting down, for instance on the sofa watching >TV?  What do you do when the dog is constantly jumping up on you?  I rub his >belly and pet him when he’s laying next to the sofa, but as soon as I stop, >he starts jumping up on me.

Management, training and supervision of both of the little critters.   Find a training class that will incorporate your son into the training.  You’ll be doing the training, but at six years old, he should be able to do something as well. Keep a short leash on the puppy to help control him when necessary. Ludwig Smith Dog FAQS http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/ rec.pets.dogs.info

Response:

 DW> When your dog jumps up, grab his paws and give him a good stiff knee in  DW> the gut.  As you knee him, say "No!".  Make sure everyone in the house  DW> knows how to do this and your dog should stop jumping up very quickly. and then, there’s a good chance it will learn to distrut all the family. Try this instead.  Ignore the dog totally – don’t touch it, don’t talk to it, don’t even make eye contact.  Say hello to everyone else in the house and only acknowledge the dog when it stops jumping up.  At that point you should praise the dog, have a titbit handy.  If it’s been taught to sit, make the dog sit and then acknowledge and praise. Regards Eric

Response:

> > DW> When your dog jumps up, grab his paws and give him a good stiff knee in > DW> the gut.  As you knee him, say "No!".  Make sure everyone in the house > DW> knows how to do this and your dog should stop jumping up very quickly. > Here is what worked for me.  I have a large dog.  When he jumped up, I > would grab onto his paws, squeeze them a little, say ‘Off!" harshly, > hold onto his paws, walk him backwards some — which he doesn’t like > because he doesn’t know where he’s going.  I do this enough so he’s > uncomfortable.  

I tried this trick with my dog, and it worked after 2 tries.  I grabbed her paws, slowly walked forward and told her "this is what happens when you jump up on me" over and over.  I kept walking around the yard until she whimpered a little, and then I let her go.  Now, when I come into the yard to play with her, she jumps up in front of me, but she doesn’t put her paws on me. Eric Madsen Thermal Analyst Lockheed Martin Astronautics/Denver "Though we know that time has wings/We’re the ones who have to fly."

Response:

Dante jumps and jumps and will not quit until I praise him and ask him "where’s your toy?" Then he dashes off and brings me whatever happens to be lying around. When guests come, I put him and Ginger in another room until the guest is seated.  Then, as long as the guest is not male, Dante will come and join the conversation relatively quietly.  He is simply and absolutely distrustful of men and will bark and be skittish the entire time any member of the male persuasion, except my Grandpa and brother Alex, are around.  I know this is off the subject, but I’ve kind of come to the conclusion that because I give up my bed for overnight visitors and their spouses that men who sleep in the "pack bed" (now, don’t get nasty >:={) are ok by him.  Anybody else have gender-related dog behaviors?

Response:

: : >We are looking for ways to train him to stop this behaviour. So far we : >have heard :use your knee or step on the back paws. : > Don’t step on the back paws.  You could really hurt him.  We had a dalmatian with the same problem, and broke him with a choke chain thrown at his rump when he started the jump.  You need 2 people for this, and he can’t see it coming.  My son and I would both come through the door at the same time, with light chains wadded up in a free hand.  When he moved to jump up on one, the other would throw the chain from behind him.  The point is for the dog to associate the stung rump with jumping up on anyone, ever, rather than with a command or specific people.  And because it is coming out of the blue, it is not a "punishment" that he can avoid or anticipate from only his owners.  This was the most stubborn, dumb-as- dirt dog in the world, but it only took 3 repetitions. Good luck, Lynn —

Response:

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Response:

|> Announcing our new web site; |> |>     Speedy pet Tags is pleased to announce the opening of our World |> Wide Web site Do you have to be *so* pleased that you spam the same message to ALL the r.p.d. groups? Man, I just *hate* advertisements. /andrea & Max — Andrea Dec                          (Clever stuff under consideration) Hewlett-Packard Company             I try not to have too many opinions, Solutions Mfg. & Distribution       but those I do have are not supported   Operation (East  )                by HP.

Response:

I was told of a technique long ago for breaking dogs from jumping up on you… and it work! When your dog jumps up, grab his paws and give him a good stiff knee in the gut.  As you knee him, say "No!".  Make sure everyone in the house knows how to do this and your dog should stop jumping up very quickly. Keep me posted! Sam the Springer & Cal the Brittany

Response:

> >Another Dane owner! How old is yours? Did this method of side-stepping >really work, or do you just get missed when she jumps up? Mine is doing >it all of the time, and sometimes I end up with a nice, deep scratch if I >am not fast enough. Any suggestions? >Thanks! >Melanie & Max

I also had a problem with my Dane jumping up when she was a puppy.  I used the knee in the chest and a verbal reprimand, and it worked.  She is now three and has not done it in a long time, and her joy in greeting us seems unaffected. Incidentally, what she really learned was not to put paws on people.  She does something with me and my husband that is really sweet.  Sometimes she will jump up and kiss us very gently on the cheek without touching us with her paws.  She does it rarely, but it is endearing. Dora, Maya’s friend

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>I am also having a problem with jumping up from my 6 month Dalmatian.  I >have tried the knee-in-the-chest method with moderate success…although >several guests refuse to do it because they "don’t want to hurt her". >(sigh)  I could probably hold her front paws and "dance" with her for an >hour.  She seems to like it.  I have also tried cans filled with pennies, >choke collars, yelling, etc. with little (and temporary) success. >Other than this, she is very well behaved.  She knows down, come, stay, >and heel but when the door bell rings, forget it. >What am I doing wrong?  Any suggestions?

What we started doing with our great dane was to simply ignore her, side-step her jumps and keep walking. It was difficult at first but later on we would anticipate her move and do a quick turn-about, walk the other way and ignore her till she calms down. Ajoy Prabhu

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> What we started doing with our great dane was to simply ignore her, > side-step her jumps and keep walking. It was difficult at first but > later on we would anticipate her move and do a quick turn-about, walk > the other way and ignore her till she calms down. > Ajoy Prabhu

Another Dane owner! How old is yours? Did this method of side-stepping really work, or do you just get missed when she jumps up? Mine is doing it all of the time, and sometimes I end up with a nice, deep scratch if I am not fast enough. Any suggestions? Thanks! Melanie & Max

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>Another Dane owner! How old is yours? Did this method of side-stepping >really work, or do you just get missed when she jumps up? Mine is doing >it all of the time, and sometimes I end up with a nice, deep scratch if I >am not fast enough. Any suggestions? >Thanks! >Melanie & Max

It worked fine so much so that we do not have to do it anymore. The part about ignoring her I think really did the trick. Now only if we can have our guests ignore her as they walk in… Seriously, she does not jump on the guests either but kind of nudges them with her rump! Ajoy

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> We are looking for ways to train him to stop this behaviour. So far we > have heard :use your knee or step on the back paws. > … Thanks in advance for any advice > Steve and Kelly  

Steve & Kelly — We used the knee-in-the-chest method, and alternated that with catching our dog’s front feet and holding her there longer than she really wanted to be up, but not  enough to make her really scared.  The holding-her version worked best, but your mileage may differ . Sandy G.

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I am also having a problem with jumping up from my 6 month Dalmatian.  I have tried the knee-in-the-chest method with moderate success…although several guests refuse to do it because they "don’t want to hurt her". (sigh)  I could probably hold her front paws and "dance" with her for an hour.  She seems to like it.  I have also tried cans filled with pennies, choke collars, yelling, etc. with little (and temporary) success. Other than this, she is very well behaved.  She knows down, come, stay, and heel but when the door bell rings, forget it. What am I doing wrong?  Any suggestions? Amy

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>We have a male cross (lab, hound, dane). He is the best  … however, >he always greets new folks with a friendly jump up and he is large >enough already that he can topple the smaller folks – not to mention >the mud on the clothes. >We are looking for ways to train him to stop this behaviour. So far we >have heard :use your knee or step on the back paws.

The knee has always worked for my dogs, large or small.  It’s important to be consistent about not letting him jump on anyone or anything.  Give him lots of opportunity to get disciplined.  For example, if, when you call him to you, he runs to you then jumps up, let him run to you, then stop him with your knee when he tries to jump and tell him off (or no or down or whatever you prefer).  This way, you can get repetition in, without necessarily involving strangers.  Also, try to anticipate his jumping.  If he gets a little wiggly before he jumps, then just place your hand on the back of his neck as he starts to rise and give him the same command as before.  At first, you’ll probably need to keep reminding him, especially in more tempting situations. Hope this helps. Megan                   Megan G. Graham  *  Internet:                        Bloomington, Minnesota USA                       The words are mine, all mine.

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: We have a male cross (lab, hound, dane). He is the best  … however, : he always greets new folks with a friendly jump up and he is large : enough already that he can topple the smaller folks – not to mention : the mud on the clothes. : We are looking for ways to train him to stop this behaviour. So far we : have heard :use your knee or step on the back paws. Better to teach a substitute then to use "NO".  For example, teach hi to sit.  Issue the command every time he approaches someone new. You can’t jump up when your but is on the floor! Adrian — Bracken says "I only want to be friendly.  Just a little lick.  Please."   __     _ _____ _         Adrian Farrel, Data Connection Ltd.  |   /–|  | /–|      |___//   |  |/   |        Any opinions expressed are mine and not  C O N N E C T I O N       necessarily those of Data Connection Ltd.

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>>We have a male cross (lab, hound, dane). He is the best  … however, >he always greets new folks with a friendly jump up and he is large >enough already that he can topple the smaller folks – not to mention >the mud on the clothes. >We are looking for ways to train him to stop this behaviour. So far we >have heard :use your knee or step on the back paws. >… Thanks in advance for any advice >:-) Steve and Kelly

We tried many things with our two labs, including holding their paws and "dancing" them backwards.  Our obedience school teacher recommended that, and demonstrated it on a dog in class.  It worked on that dog (many dogs feel insecure going backwards on their hind legs only).  Well, it didn’t work on our dogs.  They thought it was a great game.  So, with her advice, we tried another technique.  We are teaching them the command LEAP  (are not using JUMP because we use that word in class when they are jumping obstacles – you could pick any word you want).  It is easy to teach them to LEAP on command.  Now we have a new command that they should understand – NO LEAP.  When we come in, we tell them NO LEAP. Then later, after we have changed out of work clothes or whatever, we can allow them to jump on us if we want.   You should try any and all methods to see which one works for your dog. Good luck, Rebecca, with Zoe and Dakota

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We have a male cross (lab, hound, dane). He is the best  … however, he always greets new folks with a friendly jump up and he is large enough already that he can topple the smaller folks – not to mention the mud on the clothes. We are looking for ways to train him to stop this behaviour. So far we have heard :use your knee or step on the back paws. … Thanks in advance for any advice Steve and Kelly  

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