Question:

I have a kishu-inu, japanese breed, medium lenghth hair, weighs 25 pounds. Can be aggressive though, but mine was abused, got him at the SPCA. Very intelligent dog, barks when  he hears someone at door, pretty quiet otherwise.

Response:

HOWE about one you can HANG to dry??? Jerry.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was sure I wanted a Jack Russell Terrier and was ultimately committed in > making things work, and adapting my lifestyle to fit his. > I definately want a dog, with little or no hair, no wrinkles, and no moist, > wrinkly, black heads like boxers, pugs, or bulldogs. > Apart from a JRT and the Beagle and the Fox Terrier, which other breeds are > easier to housetrain, lazier than JRT’s and not too attached to destructive > behavior like digging? > In general all terriers are dedicated diggers.  That is part of being a > terrier.  Of the terriers there are several that are still not ideal for > your situation, but far better than the JRT.  The Border Terrier in > particular comes to mind.  It is still a terrier.  It is active, a > digger, and a predator.  But generally less driven and manic than either > the Fox Terrier or the JRT.  I don’t know the temperament of this one: > http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanhairlessterrier.htm but it is worth > looking into. > Not so easy to housetrain, but otherwise a likely candidate is the > Italian Greyhound – at least it would enjoy spending several hours curled > up on your bed while you are away.  Much lazier than a JRT, a real > snuggler, not a big barker, not a big digger – destruction?  I dunno > The smaller the breed, the better. > If I can’t find another breed I like, I will get a JRT and I will adapt my > lifestyle so both me and my dog can be happy. > I am committed to excercise him daily, train him daily, wake up at long > night hours to make him go poop, etc. > Well, I’m happy you are honestly thinking this over.  Thank you. > Diane Blackman > http://www.dog-play.com  http://www.dog-play.com/TOTE.html > You can lead a person to facts, but you can’t make them think. > http://www.detnews.com/1997/outlook/9711/11/11090023.htm

Response:

> I was sure I wanted a Jack Russell Terrier and was ultimately committed in > making things work, and adapting my lifestyle to fit his. > I definately want a dog, with little or no hair, no wrinkles, and no moist, > wrinkly, black heads like boxers, pugs, or bulldogs. > Apart from a JRT and the Beagle and the Fox Terrier, which other breeds are > easier to housetrain, lazier than JRT’s and not too attached to destructive > behavior like digging?

In general all terriers are dedicated diggers.  That is part of being a terrier.  Of the terriers there are several that are still not ideal for your situation, but far better than the JRT.  The Border Terrier in particular comes to mind.  It is still a terrier.  It is active, a digger, and a predator.  But generally less driven and manic than either the Fox Terrier or the JRT.  I don’t know the temperament of this one: http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/americanhairlessterrier.htm but it is worth looking into. Not so easy to housetrain, but otherwise a likely candidate is the Italian Greyhound – at least it would enjoy spending several hours curled up on your bed while you are away.  Much lazier than a JRT, a real snuggler, not a big barker, not a big digger – destruction?  I dunno > The smaller the breed, the better. > If I can’t find another breed I like, I will get a JRT and I will adapt my > lifestyle so both me and my dog can be happy. > I am committed to excercise him daily, train him daily, wake up at long > night hours to make him go poop, etc.

Well, I’m happy you are honestly thinking this over.  Thank you. Diane Blackman http://www.dog-play.com  http://www.dog-play.com/TOTE.html You can lead a person to facts, but you can’t make them think. http://www.detnews.com/1997/outlook/9711/11/11090023.htm

Response:

Here’s a few more breeds to look into, Toy Manchester terrier or Standard Manchester terrier (both seem a lot more laid back than a JRT) Papillion (only has long feathering on ears and tail and a bit on the legs) Chinese Crested (hey no hair variety on most of it and not wrinkly nor                                 does it have a small pushed in face if you don’t like that look) Italian Greyhound Mini Bull terrier Border Terrier (a little bit of grooming here) Miniature pinscher (can be very active but not generally destructive!) Schipperke (can be very vocal and can be dog aggressive also                     VERY long live 16-20 years not uncommon!) Take a look at them on the AKC site and read a bit on each of them… Good luck! Marla Belzowski & the LegendHold Collie Clan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was sure I wanted a Jack Russell Terrier and was ultimately committed in > making things work, and adapting my lifestyle to fit his. > I definately want a dog, with little or no hair, no wrinkles, and no moist, > wrinkly, black heads like boxers, pugs, or bulldogs. > Apart from a JRT and the Beagle and the Fox Terrier, which other breeds are > easier to housetrain, lazier than JRT’s and not too attached to destructive > behavior like digging? > The smaller the breed, the better. > If I can’t find another breed I like, I will get a JRT and I will adapt my > lifestyle so both me and my dog can be happy. > I am committed to excercise him daily, train him daily, wake up at long > night hours to make him go poop, etc. > Thanks.

Response:

I would suggest reading up on italian greyhounds.

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Ever thought of a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel? We have two. They are bright and cheerful but NEVER aggressive nor destructive – very loving, in fact although they like a good romp. Both are quite small and they don’t shed a great deal. They need grooming very regularly, but this is part of the fun of having them ! I’d recommend them to anyone. Good luck. Hope you find your ideal dog.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was sure I wanted a Jack Russell Terrier and was ultimately committed in > making things work, and adapting my lifestyle to fit his. > I definately want a dog, with little or no hair, no wrinkles, and no moist, > wrinkly, black heads like boxers, pugs, or bulldogs. > Apart from a JRT and the Beagle and the Fox Terrier, which other breeds are > easier to housetrain, lazier than JRT’s and not too attached to destructive > behavior like digging? > The smaller the breed, the better. > If I can’t find another breed I like, I will get a JRT and I will adapt my > lifestyle so both me and my dog can be happy. > I am committed to excercise him daily, train him daily, wake up at long > night hours to make him go poop, etc. > Thanks.

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Miniature short hair dachshund? –Lia — "It is a strange fact of life on earth that a human being who reaches college age under the impression that "it’s" is the possessive form of "it" cannot be disabused of that belief.  No amount of red ink will wash it out."      Louis Menand

Response:

 Hello doc, I’m here to set you straight ONCE AGAIN, and alleviate your "concerns" about  the Wits’ End Dog Training Method and Doggy Do Right http://www.doggydoright.com >  –Marshall >                            Concerns About the >                          Wit’s End Dog Training >                      Method and the Doggy Do Right > We, readers and contributors to rec.pets.dogs.behavior, have > frequently read claims about the Wit’s End Dog Training > Method (WEDTM) and the Doggy Do Right (DDR). We > document our concerns here, about the claims detailed at > http://www.doggydoright.com/ and in the numerous posts Mr. > Jerry Howe, the inventor/promoter, has made in the > rec.pets.dogs.behavior newsgroup. We urge readers to > consider our concerns before following the advice in the > WEDTM manual or purchasing the DDR.

Exactly. Ignore the abusive training methods you chumps use, and create suspicion about the ones that DON’T USE PAIN, FEAR, or FORCE… YOU cannot mitigate Right and Wrong, it’s black and white, no gray areas. It is clearly WRONG to hurt dogs to train them. You do so because you LACK SKILL, You do so because you lack CHARACTER. You do so because you lack MORALS. You do so because you lack ETHICS. You do so because you lack CONSCIENCE. And do so because you lack HUMAN DIGNITY. But mostly, you do so because YOU LACK KNOWLEDGE. People, give serious thought and  QUESTION the MENTALITY of the kind of "people" who endorse this kind of abuse, and then LIE about using it, and then tell YOU to hurt your dogs: >> I don’t beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. >> In our training we do not do any of these things, nor do we >> advocate them to others. > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html???

Isn’t that YOUR OWN WORDS lyingfrostydahly??? But YOU don’t  DO THAT??? People, this is HOWE consistency works, and most particularly well with dogs, because here, the same methods are being used to INFLUENCE YOU, and YOU certainly are more intellectually capable of solving problems and have greater critical thinking skills than your dogs…, and these methods work on YOU> ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply.>>> With your hand on the collar and ear, say, "fetch." Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy. Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog,>>>" THIS IS WHAT YOUR RPDB REGULAR PALS ENDORSE AND TEACH… >>"Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When

performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> This is HOWE they get that happy excited working attitude that they all talk about… That’s their criteria for making their dogs happy, willing, team mates…See Jerry’s HIGH-STAKES CHALLENGE… ">>>Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of as force-fetching: the ear pinch.>>> "but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch>>> You can press the dog’s ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb;>>> even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that>>> Make the dog’s need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.>>> Say "fetch" while pressing the dummy against its lips and pinching its ear.>>> the dog still does not open its mouth, get out the shotshell. Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in>>>" Right… Didn’t lyingfrostydahly just deny all of that? There’s more… That was just a little about ear pinching AND BEATING A DOG, and no there was NO MENTION of twisting ears… cindy moore has all that  information for you… But does it really matter, the semantics of  whether we’re twisting or pinching or slapping or hitting???  These are the subtle differences between being an expert dog trainer and some morally bankrupt vicious rotten abusive cretin that goes to jail for abusing dogs…  But don’t lose interest now, there’s more… Wouldn’t you think that was despicable enough even just writing that, let alone risk suffering the embarrassment of not only having that attributed to yourself, but in fact denying your best work and PROVING YOURSELF A SHAMELESS LIAR AND ADVOCATE OF DOG ABUSE??? But it goes on… >> chuck (for the uninitiated, "chuck" means strike) the dog

under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while saying "No!">>> If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!">>>  use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear and place the dummy in its mouth. If it doesn’t make rapid progress, you can increase the pressure by requiring it to pick up the dropped dummy (stay on the ear until it does).>>> (perhaps because the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided it isn’t worth it).>>> pinch its ear and say, "fetch,">>> Here we have consistency and a plea for reason, directly in contradiction to the blackman and white facts signed and published by our expert trainer…  Accordingly, the consistency of constant repetitions of your requests for understanding and compliance from your dogs, dictates that YOU WILL GET IT, so long as you are consistent and keep repeating the exact same scenario, no matter what… Including and especially when you calculatedly and intentionally deny the truth and make your requests seem reasonable. > Claim 1: "Our enlightened methods challenge the learning >centers in your dog’s brain. These centers develop and >continue to grow exponentially." (source: WEDTM manual)

That’s right. doc dermer questions the use of the word exponentially, and I agree… Exponentially would imply that the dog’s brain is going at some time have to explode…it was obviously intended to get the point across, not to be a scientific determination… What the good doc does not address, is that thinking and problem solving are LEARNED QUALITIES, and that the ability to think, rationalize and solve problems DEVELOPS WITH USE… That cannot happen when we inhibit behavior through fear, force, and confrontation. The good doc is too busy thinking of ways to PUNISH dogs BEHAVIORS, AND NOT THE DOG… I think the good doc would prefer to train one group of dogs using the Wits’ End Dog Training Method, and keep another group untrained as a control… Then, kill the both groups of dogs and analyze their brains under an electron microscope to determine if they have any differences… That’s the only criteria that he could possibly accept, and HE’D be WILLING to DO IT. These guys are experts ONLY at DOUBLE TALK and DECEPTION. AND THEY’RE TRYING TO FOOL YOU… MISERY LOVES COMPANY, AND THEY DON’T WANT TO FEEL OUT OF PLACE. >          Discussion:

DISCUSSION??? HA! There has NEVER been an honest discussion with you guys all covering up and misconstruing the facts… > To our knowledge the author has has never > identified the putative "learning centers" nor measured their > growth. Moreover, this claim is stated in the present tense > with respect to YOUR dog. The author has probably neither > seen your dog nor used the WEDTM with your dog.

Nor do I have to. If you can walk and chew gum, you can have the same degree of excellence in training that I get with my students dogs. It’s easy, but you’ll have to forget just about everything you used to believe about dog training using FEAR, FORCE, CONFRONTATION, PUNISHMENT and FORCED CONTROL… That is what causes serious, long term behavior problems, not training using intellect and scientific, non violent methods… > Claim 2: "A little black box solves all dogs behavior problems!" >           (source: www.doggdoright.com)

I’m glad you mention that… Every time the information in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method Manual contradicts the violence and pain that you rely on, you throw around Doggy Do Right to obscure the issues and to add confusion and doubt. Doggy Do Right cures the most serious dog behavior problems using a pleasant ultrasonic program that dogs love… Doggy Do Right is 100% money back, SATISFACTION GUARANTEED forever. And, BIOSOUND Scientific give a 25% DISCOUNT for shelter or rescue people, REGARDLESS OF THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS…That means that I have to bear the LOSS…The BIOSOUND Scientific Elves are responsible for THAT. >          Discussion: Behavior problems have diverse origins. >They may stem, for example, from genetic variables, medical > conditions, or poor training.

THEY MOST OFTEN COME FROM FEAR, FORCE, AND CONFRONTATION IN TRAINING…But the "trainers" here need to blame the cause on bad breeding and bad handling, to explain WHY their force training methods FAIL on SO MANY dogs so CONSISTENTLY… DOGS DIE BECAUSE OF ABUSE IN TRAINING. > To assert that a "black box solves all dogs behavior > problems" is a gross and potentially dangerous claim.

NOT SO. Doggy Do Right does EXACTLY what I say it does… > An owner might mistakenly buy the DDR when their dog should > rightfully be examined by a veterinarian or placed in a training > program.

No, there is no validity to that whatsoever… Furthermore, most of your "training programs" involve fear, force, and punishment, which CAUSES behavior problems… > Claim 3: > How does the above look Terri and other concerned readers? > –Marshall

It looks pretty shoddy, kind of like you are defending THIS kind of abuse: >>Then sit the dog. Take hold of its buckle collar and ear

as follows. Slide the last three fingers of your left hand towards the dog’s head under the collar, and … read more »

Response:

I’m new at this myself, but I’ve heard that JRT’s can be quite a terror. Even a popular TV hero that appears so well trained is "not to be trusted unsupervised" according to his trainer. Here are some websites that might help point you to a breed more in tune with your lifestyle. The AOL site is particularly good (how often do you hear that said?!) http://www003.aolsvc.personalogic.aol.com/houseandhome/dogmatch/?pl_s… 65ub-1l31mwy-2z32k&info=aol%2CSILVER%2Caol&product=dogs%2Caol%2Caol&timeout = true http://www.petsource.com/ADOG/n3w/a.htm http://www.petnet.com.au/dogselectapet.html http://www.petplanet.co.uk/petplanet/health/index.htm http://www.cyberpet.com/cyberdog/ There will be different results because of cultural differences (the English favouring lap dogs for eg.), but if a couple search engines return the same breeds chances are you’ve found a match.  Research them further by breed name and you’ll have done a pretty thorough job of ensuring you get a pooch that will enter into your lifestyle with minimal complications. I took that information and made a list of desirable species then went to the local pound looking for those breeds. Griz & Shadow

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There are a lot of smaller terriers.  What about scotties or yorkies?   If you’re thinking of short hair because you think it will be easier to clean up after, remember that there are short hair breeds that shed a lot and long hair breeds that don’t shed nearly as much.  (If it’s an aesthetic consideration then I’ll admit that I like the look of long haired dogs much more and completely agree with you about moist wrinkled faces.) –Lia — "It is a strange fact of life on earth that a human being who reaches college age under the impression that "it’s" is the possessive form of "it" cannot be disabused of that belief.  No amount of red ink will wash it out."      Louis Menand

Response:

>I was sure I wanted a Jack Russell Terrier and was ultimately committed in >making things work, and adapting my lifestyle to fit his. >I definately want a dog, with little or no hair, no wrinkles, and no moist, >wrinkly, black heads like boxers, pugs, or bulldogs. >Apart from a JRT and the Beagle and the Fox Terrier, which other breeds are >easier to housetrain, lazier than JRT’s and not too attached to destructive >behavior like digging?

 A Chihauhua? –Marshall I have read rpdb for about four years. Consequently, I urge newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb regulars from whom I have learned much. They include: Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman, jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, Ruth Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Denna Pace, John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane Webb, and Terri Willis. Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of                http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer "Knowing how things work is the basis for appreciation, and is thus a source of civilized delight."–William Safire

Response:

Bassett Hound? Most of the terriers are going to be pretty committed to digging as most of them were bred to take prey from the ground and stretch it. If you have the time and dedication I think any dog that you pick should do well. Go look for a mutt at the pound that is already in your size category and might be a little better mannered already. Good luck. Coondogger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I was sure I wanted a Jack Russell Terrier and was ultimately committed in >making things work, and adapting my lifestyle to fit his. >I definately want a dog, with little or no hair, no wrinkles, and no moist, >wrinkly, black heads like boxers, pugs, or bulldogs. >Apart from a JRT and the Beagle and the Fox Terrier, which other breeds are >easier to housetrain, lazier than JRT’s and not too attached to destructive >behavior like digging? >The smaller the breed, the better. >If I can’t find another breed I like, I will get a JRT and I will adapt my >lifestyle so both me and my dog can be happy. >I am committed to excercise him daily, train him daily, wake up at long >night hours to make him go poop, etc. >Thanks.

Response:

I was sure I wanted a Jack Russell Terrier and was ultimately committed in making things work, and adapting my lifestyle to fit his. I definately want a dog, with little or no hair, no wrinkles, and no moist, wrinkly, black heads like boxers, pugs, or bulldogs. Apart from a JRT and the Beagle and the Fox Terrier, which other breeds are easier to housetrain, lazier than JRT’s and not too attached to destructive behavior like digging? The smaller the breed, the better. If I can’t find another breed I like, I will get a JRT and I will adapt my lifestyle so both me and my dog can be happy. I am committed to excercise him daily, train him daily, wake up at long night hours to make him go poop, etc. Thanks.

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