Dog Behavior Information » Dog Behavior Problem » Animal Abuse: Getting Involved Can Be Dangerous!

Animal Abuse: Getting Involved Can Be Dangerous!

Question:

I don’t know if this will be of much interest, since Kimball Lewis has since moved, but if anyone is interest in sending cards or letters of condolences, here is the address for the Humane Society in Central Oregon: 61167 SE 27th Avenue Bend, Oregon 97702 A friend & I have started one where we work and plan to mail it & the contributions we can collect by the end of the week. Thanks, Shelly & Codabear.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> x-no-archive:yes > Animal Rights Activist’s Dog Shot, Hanged > German Shepherd Killed as Retaliation, Officials Say > April 17, 2000 > By Valerie Kalfrin > BEND, Ore. (APBnews.com) — Authorities are offering a $15,000 > reward for information leading to the arrest of the culprit who > killed a German shepherd found shot in the head and hung from > a tree. > Kimball Lewis, an animal rights activist, found his 7-year-old dog, > Donner, shot in the head and suspended from a juniper tree in his > front yard around 6 a.m. April 12, authorities said. > Officials consider the killing to be a retaliatory move against > Lewis, who has actively pursued a number of high-profile animal > abuse and neglect cases as executive director of the central > Oregon Humane Society. > Lewis, who is single and has no children, considered the dog "his > child" and constant companion, bringing him to work and local > schools to teach about animal rights, said Sue Barker, Lewis’ > spokeswoman. > "[Donner] didn’t like to sleep inside. … He was a very > friendly dog. He’d go up to anybody, take a ride in anybody’s > car. … He was a real sweetie pie," she said. > Taking precautions > The 37-year-old Lewis is now concerned for his own > safety and has moved out of his rural Deschutes County > home outside Bend, Barker said. > "There have been no threats against him, but he is taking > precautions," she said. > Lewis headed the Eugene Humane Society for more > than three years before coming to Bend in June 1999 to > run the central Oregon agency, Barker said. > You can read the entire article at:

http://www.apbnews.com/newscenter/breakingnews/2000/04/17/dogreward04… tml – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > (ken) > See My Digital Photos: > http://www.MillenniumAdventures.com > My three most recent "test" photos: > http://www.zyworld.com/maryland/test.htm > I hope the catch these sick bastards!

Response:

Man…. you really know how to push my buttons KEN, ! I hope these a*holes get busted and sentenced to life ! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I don’t know if this will be of much interest, since Kimball Lewis has since >moved, but if anyone is interest in sending cards or letters of >condolences, here is the address for the Humane Society in Central Oregon: >61167 SE 27th Avenue >Bend, Oregon >97702 >A friend & I have started one where we work and plan to mail it & the >contributions we can collect by the end of the week. >Thanks, >Shelly & Codabear. > x-no-archive:yes > Animal Rights Activist’s Dog Shot, Hanged > German Shepherd Killed as Retaliation, Officials Say > April 17, 2000 > By Valerie Kalfrin > BEND, Ore. (APBnews.com) — Authorities are offering a $15,000 > reward for information leading to the arrest of the culprit who > killed a German shepherd found shot in the head and hung from > a tree. > Kimball Lewis, an animal rights activist, found his 7-year-old dog, > Donner, shot in the head and suspended from a juniper tree in his > front yard around 6 a.m. April 12, authorities said. > Officials consider the killing to be a retaliatory move against > Lewis, who has actively pursued a number of high-profile animal > abuse and neglect cases as executive director of the central > Oregon Humane Society. > Lewis, who is single and has no children, considered the dog "his > child" and constant companion, bringing him to work and local > schools to teach about animal rights, said Sue Barker, Lewis’ > spokeswoman. > "[Donner] didn’t like to sleep inside. … He was a very > friendly dog. He’d go up to anybody, take a ride in anybody’s > car. … He was a real sweetie pie," she said. > Taking precautions > The 37-year-old Lewis is now concerned for his own > safety and has moved out of his rural Deschutes County > home outside Bend, Barker said. > "There have been no threats against him, but he is taking > precautions," she said. > Lewis headed the Eugene Humane Society for more > than three years before coming to Bend in June 1999 to > run the central Oregon agency, Barker said. > You can read the entire article at: >http://www.apbnews.com/newscenter/breakingnews/2000/04/17/dogreward04…. h >tml > (ken) > See My Digital Photos: > http://www.MillenniumAdventures.com > My three most recent "test" photos: > http://www.zyworld.com/maryland/test.htm > I hope the catch these sick bastards!

Response:

http://www.apbnews.com/newscenter/breakingnews/2000/04/17/dogreward04 17_01.html > (ken) > See My Digital Photos: > http://www.MillenniumAdventures.com > My three most recent "test" photos: > http://www.zyworld.com/maryland/test.htm > I hope the catch these sick bastards!

Hello ken, You don’t have to look any further than right here to find animal abuse. Just find a koehler trainer to find a bona fide DOG ABUSER… In order to use the koehler method it is PREREQUISITE that you as a handler are PREPARED to HANG the dog "till his eyes roll back in his head, his tongue turns thick and blue and falls out the side of his mouth, and when you put him back on the ground he should stagger to his feet and PUKE, or else you DIDN’T HANG HIM CORRECTLY, for objecting to being jerked and choked till the dog can’t take it any more… Otherwise, you are going to have to KILL the dog because you were not severe enough and not following the instructions is the CRUELEST thing you can do, according to the MONSTER koehler… It’s in the BIBLE by koehler you and the Gang Of Thugs are using to torment and dominate dogs… Have you seen the following? You have, and you have no problem for THAT, IT’S NOT ABUSE, it’s ACCEPTED training methodology, isn’t it, KEN? Well ken, I got NEWS for YOU. It IS ABUSE, and we are not going to tolerate people like YOU and the Gang Of Thugs of R.P.D.B. TEACHING people to choke, jerk, shock, twist and pinch ears, toes, and testicles, and HANG dogs to REHABILITATE THEM and BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS, to make them retrieve… I’m blowing everyone’s cover BIG TIME, and you and your vicious pals ARE GOING NUTS trying to lie and cover up the truth so you will not be seen as the vicious dog abusers you are… Here’s PROOF. > You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article, inside supposedly quoted > material, without indicating that it was your addition. > You are even sleazier than I thought.

Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!" use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear chuck the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while saying "No!">>> >> Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 >> Pinehurst, NC 28370 (http://www.oakhillkennel.com)

Here’s the full text. Got Milk? http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? Aren’t those AMY DAHL’S OWN WORDS??? But SHE don’t DO THAT??? Is EVERYBODY going to ignore the character of these people who lie and cover up for each other? Here’s HOWE they get that happy excited to work look on the dogs… >> Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When

performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> ANY QUESTIONS? > You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article, inside supposedly quoted > material, without indicating that it was your addition. > You are even sleazier than I thought.

Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

Response:

> I don’t know if this will be of much interest, since Kimball Lewis has since > moved, but if anyone is interest in sending cards or letters of > condolences, here is the address for the Humane Society in Central Oregon: > 61167 SE 27th Avenue > Bend, Oregon > 97702 > A friend & I have started one where we work and plan to mail it & the > contributions we can collect by the end of the week. > Thanks, > Shelly & Codabear.

Hello shelly, Sounds to ME like your interest in abuse is a red herring to distract people from the REAL issues of HURTING dogs to train them… We don’t need to worry about the abusers the LAW is eager to take care of, we need to BUST the ABUSERS who are ABOVE the LAW, our dog trainers who TEACH HURTING DOGS to train them… You know all about it, and YOU IGNORE it, because YOU APPROVE… I think you should re examine YOUR value judgements and LOOK at YOURSELF and our Gang Of Thugs here on R.P.D.B, who jerk, choke, shock, hang, and pinch and twist dogs body parts, BEFORE pointing the finger at DOG ABUSERS elsewhere.

> You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article, inside supposedly quoted > material, without indicating that it was your addition. > You are even sleazier than I thought.

Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

Response:

Hello ken,

> x-no-archive:yes > Hello ken, > You don’t have to look any further than right here to find animal > abuse. Just find a koehler trainer to find a bona fide DOG ABUSER… > This story is about a worker who’s dog was killed as a result > of his work in the fight against animal abusers.

Yes, I read that in your OP. > You shouldn’t be using this tragic incident to be promoting your >

"little black box." YOU shouldn’t be LIGHT ON DOG ABUSERS, and criticize Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) http://www.doggydoright. as a RED HERRING to throw people off track and COVER UP FOR yourself and your pals who jerk, choke, shock, twist and pinch ears, toes, and testicles and HANG DOGS to REHABILITATE THEM and BEAT DOGS WITH STICK to teach them to retrieve… > Have you seen the following? You have, and you have no problem for > THAT, IT’S NOT ABUSE, it’s ACCEPTED training methodology, isn’t it, > KEN? > You’ve got your insanity confused with the *real* world again.

I don’t CHOKE, JERK, SHOCK, HANG, OR BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS. You approve of that, and THAT’S WHY you and your vicious pals here on R.P.D.B. are all sticking together and LYING and swearing to it, TO DEFEND DOG ABUSE… > ANY QUESTIONS? > Yea, could you get lost?

SORRY, PAL. I’m going to make sure that people RECOGNIZE THE TRUE DOG ABUSERS… Punks like YOU criticize OTHERS to take the attention off of the ABUSE THAT YOU CONDONE. As a Koehler trainer, being willing to HANG DOGS is PREREQUISITE, like it says in the book: till their eyes roll back in their head, their tongue turns thick and blue and falls out the side of his mouth, and when you let him back on the ground he should stagger to his feet and PUKE, like it says in the BIBLE by Koehler… or else you didn’t do it CORRECTLY… > (ken)

ken, it’s guys like YOU who are in need of criminal justice for your own behavior, the kind accepted by our Gang Of Thugs. And, I never did mention or leave a link to Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) http://www.doggydoright.com BECAUSE I DIDN’T WANT YOU TO CONFUSE THE ISSUES AGAIN… You like talking dog abuse? LET’S TALK.. "Thus we should beware of clinging to vulgar opinions, and judge things by reason’s way, not by popular say." Montaigne "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Salvor Hardin "If you cannot convince them, confuse them." H.S. Truman. ;~) DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS… J>>> "CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw. "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Leo Tolstoy Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?: caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe-

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Man…. you really know how to push my buttons KEN, ! I hope these a*holes > get busted and sentenced to life ! >I don’t know if this will be of much interest, since Kimball Lewis has > since >moved, but if anyone is interest in sending cards or letters of >condolences, here is the address for the Humane Society in Central Oregon: >61167 SE 27th Avenue >Bend, Oregon >97702 >A friend & I have started one where we work and plan to mail it & the >contributions we can collect by the end of the week. >Thanks, >Shelly & Codabear.

Hello peewee, You sound like the guy who traveled the world looking for diamonds, and returned home destitute, to find gold in his own back yard… You seem to have no problem for "trainers" like cindy moore teaching people to jerk, choke, shock, and twist and pinch dogs body parts and you don’t even mention ANYTHING when our heavy handed experts like amy dahy BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS OR hang DOGS LIKE SOME OR OUR GANG OF THUGS TEACH… What gives? You want to stop dog abuse? LOOK RIGHT HERE on R.P.D.B. for our ACCEPTED brutality… Ignore the LIES. To do OTHERWISE would PUT YOU ON THE SPOT, wouldn’t it? Either you approve of HURTING DOGS, or you don’t… Make a stand here. Let the authorities deal with the CRIMINALS WHO ARE NOT PROTECTED from the law BY CALLING THEMSELVES DOG TRAINERS.

Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

Response:

> x-no-archive:yes > You seem to have no problem for "trainers" like cindy moore teaching > people to jerk, choke, shock, and twist and pinch dogs body parts and > you don’t even mention ANYTHING when our heavy handed experts like > amy dahy BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS OR hang DOGS LIKE SOME OR OUR GANG OF > THUGS TEACH…

Hi Crazy Jerry! Hello ken, You’ve got a COLLOSSAL NERVE calling ME crazy. I don’t choke, jerk, shock, pinch or twist dog’s body parts or HANG DOGS to rehabilitate them… THAT’S CRAZY. And, it’s CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR… You couldn’t train a RETRIEVER using ear pinching in front of a JURY without landing your idiotic butt in a criminal mental health facility… Care to put that to a test??? > Damn right! I think Cindy Moore, Diane Blackman, Dianne > Schoenberg, Dogman, Lynn Kosmakos and Bob Maida are the > best advice givers that ever showed up here! And we all wish > you would leave.

I’ll bet you do. Your chums have gone CRAZY because I’m BLOWING THE WHISTLE on them. Why did you take off the original headers to keep our little discussion in rpdb ONLY? Hmm? FEELING a little ASHAMED AND EMBARRSSED by yourself and your vicious pals? Hmm? > (ken)

Here’s one of your pals expressing PRIDE in her work…by denying her own words… > You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article, inside supposedly quoted > material, without indicating that it was your addition. > You are even sleazier than I thought.

Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

Response:

: : This story is about a worker who’s dog was killed as a result of his : work in the fight against animal abusers. You shouldn’t be using this : tragic incident to be promoting your "little black box." What, kinda like you shouldn’t be using people’s pets’ deaths to flame them with, Ken? Also, I have a hard time not choking whne I see a line like that coming from some one who loves to use tragic incidents to get on little black boxes and I seriosly doubt he even really cares about these little charades he goes on rather than he just likes to stir people up and watch the flames fly. I mean, that line coming from *you* of all people is almost amusing it’s so hypocritical. Tigress (I know I should ignore him but he just was begging to be flamed with that line) — The root cause of problems is simple overpopulation. People just aren’t worth very much any more, and they know it. Makes ‘em testy. …Bev | _,,,—,,_ Tigress /,`.-’`’ -. ;-;;,_ http://havoc.gtf.gatech.edu/tigress ’—”(_/–’ `-’_) Cat by Felix Lee.

Response:

Jerry– Can I ask a simple questiong? How can you say these things to me when you know NOTHING of me, or the kind of person I am, or the kind of training I believe in? > You know all about it, and YOU IGNORE it, because YOU APPROVE… I > think you should re examine YOUR value judgements and LOOK at > YOURSELF and our Gang Of Thugs here on R.P.D.B, who jerk, choke, > shock, hang, and pinch and twist dogs body parts, BEFORE pointing the > finger at DOG ABUSERS elsewhere.

I’ve been on this list for less that a week now, and I have never claimed to be anything but a dog-lover, particularly my dog. And you attack me for showing human kindness and compassion for someone’s loss. This is an attack close to home, in my own homestate so the laws & things that go one DO affect me. I’m fully aware that the law will no doubt be involved in this, but where, may I ask is the harm in showing another person that you care and feel terrible about what happened? Answer me this. I want to know how I "ignore" and "approve" of it? Because I don’t pick a fight with just about everyone on this list? I’m sorry, but I don’t think so. Shelly

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I don’t know if this will be of much interest, since Kimball Lewis > has since > moved, but if anyone is interest in sending cards or letters of > condolences, here is the address for the Humane Society in Central > Oregon: > 61167 SE 27th Avenue > Bend, Oregon > 97702 > A friend & I have started one where we work and plan to mail it & > the > contributions we can collect by the end of the week. > Thanks, > Shelly & Codabear. > Hello shelly, > Sounds to ME like your interest in abuse is a red herring to distract > people from the REAL issues of HURTING dogs to train them… > We don’t need to worry about the abusers the LAW is eager to take > care of, we need to BUST the ABUSERS who are ABOVE the LAW, our dog > trainers who TEACH HURTING DOGS to train them… > You know all about it, and YOU IGNORE it, because YOU APPROVE… I > think you should re examine YOUR value judgements and LOOK at > YOURSELF and our Gang Of Thugs here on R.P.D.B, who jerk, choke, > shock, hang, and pinch and twist dogs body parts, BEFORE pointing the > finger at DOG ABUSERS elsewhere. > You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article, inside supposedly quoted > material, without indicating that it was your addition. > You are even sleazier than I thought. > Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. > YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog. > YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. > ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper > wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog. > YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less > dogs may require you to progress to striking them more > sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive. > YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. > If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say > "No! Hold!" use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear > chuck the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while > saying "No!">>> >>> Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 > >> Pinehurst, NC 28370 (http://www.oakhillkennel.com) > Here’s the full text. Got Milk? > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? > Aren’t those AMY DAHL’S OWN WORDS??? But SHE don’t DO THAT??? > Is EVERYBODY going to ignore the character of these people who lie > and cover up for each other? > Here’s HOWE they get that happy excited to work look on the dogs… >>> Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When > performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the > fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been > carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each > dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> > ANY QUESTIONS?

Response:

Well, no. Jerry’s beef is with everybody. Amy just happens to be this week’s blue plate special. He goes off at anyone who doesn’t agree with him, is successful at what he claims to do, questions his credentials, asks for verification of any part of what he claims – in short, he’s a fruitcake. He’s also very good at telling people how to commit suicide. One would think he’d had some practice at that, except he is still here. Unfortunately. Actually, about two months ago, Amy did order one of his magic black boxes for testing purposes. She still hasn’t gotten it. His only bona fide paying customer, and this is how he treats her. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >From ‘Jerry Howe’: >Hello Jerry, >You’ll forgive me for not knowing who you are, I’m sure, since >I hang out in rec.pets.dogs.rescue, and not .behavior, but I must point >out that you’re going off on other people when it seems your real beef is >with Amy Dahl, which seems rather foolish. Especially since you’re appending >Amy Dahl’s words to each followup you made to *other* people’s posts. >Perhaps I’m missing something. >– >North Shore Technologies, Cleveland, OH

http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net >"Never attribute to malice events more properly attributed to corporate >greed." –Me, March 28th, 2000

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Ah, Jerry – you are the one who claims to be able to cause a dog to spike a fever of 106 and give it diarrhea in less than two minutes, as an integral part of your ‘protection training’ technique. Now, _that_ is hurtful and abusive. >I’m not asking you to fight with almost everybody on the list because >they think HURTING DOGS is necessary to train them.

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

: Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. I don’t know anything about hurting dogs, but I know that Jerry Howe makes claims for his "Doggy Do Right" that cannot possibly be true, as they violate the laws of physics as applied to the attentuation of high-frequency sound over distance. Most people would call that *lying*.

Response:

From ‘Jerry Howe’: >Hello shelly,

Hello Jerry, You’ll forgive me for not knowing who you are, I’m sure, since I hang out in rec.pets.dogs.rescue, and not .behavior, but I must point out that you’re going off on other people when it seems your real beef is with Amy Dahl, which seems rather foolish. Especially since you’re appending Amy Dahl’s words to each followup you made to *other* people’s posts. Perhaps I’m missing something. — North Shore Technologies, Cleveland, OH http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net "Never attribute to malice events more properly attributed to corporate greed." –Me, March 28th, 2000

Response:

Hello Shelly, Excuse me, but there was an error. I thought you were shelly of this signature: shelly and elliott & harriet http://members.home.net/scouvrette/index/ — I recommend to all rpdb readers that Jerry Howe should be ignored as a crank and waste of time I sincerely apologize. I thought you were someone else. But I would like to address your question. I liked what you had said but I deleted it for space…

> Answer me this. I want to know how I "ignore" and "approve" > of it?

I have no idea if you are even familiar with what we’re talking about. My comments to shelly were not intended to be addressed to you, I don’t think I’ve ever read one of your posts until the original post in this thread. Excuse me. > Because I don’t pick a fight with just about everyone on this > list?

Oh, so you ARE familiar with the issues. So you know that the post intended for shelly and elliott and harriet was about abusive training methods like twisting and pinching ears and toes and BEATING DOGS WITH STICKS to make them retrieve. > I’m sorry, but I don’t think so.

I’m not asking you to fight with almost everybody on the list because they think HURTING DOGS is necessary to train them. > Shelly

I just want you to be aware of that. You are. Have you read this?:

Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> ANY QUESTIONS? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I don’t know if this will be of much interest, since Kimball Lewis > has since > > moved, but if anyone is interest in sending cards or letters of > > condolences, here is the address for the Humane Society in Central > Oregon: > > 61167 SE 27th Avenue > > Bend, Oregon > > 97702 > > A friend & I have started one where we work and plan to mail it & > the > > contributions we can collect by the end of the week. > > Thanks, > > Shelly & Codabear. > Hello shelly, > Sounds to ME like your interest in abuse is a red herring to distract > people from the REAL issues of HURTING dogs to train them… > We don’t need to worry about the abusers the LAW is eager to take > care of, we need to BUST the ABUSERS who are ABOVE the LAW, our dog > trainers who TEACH HURTING DOGS to train them… > You know all about it, and YOU IGNORE it, because YOU APPROVE… I > think you should re examine YOUR value judgements and LOOK at > YOURSELF and our Gang Of Thugs here on R.P.D.B, who jerk, choke, > shock, hang, and pinch and twist dogs body parts, BEFORE pointing the > finger at DOG ABUSERS elsewhere. > > You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > > word "slap" into the article, inside supposedly quoted > > material, without indicating that it was your addition. > > You are even sleazier than I thought. > Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. > YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog. > YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. > ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper > wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > > I would never slap a dog. > YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. > >>>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less > dogs may require you to progress to striking them more > sharply,>>>" > > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive. > YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. > If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say > "No! Hold!" use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear > chuck the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while > saying "No!">>> > >>> Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 > > >> Pinehurst, NC 28370 (http://www.oakhillkennel.com) > Here’s the full text. Got Milk? > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? > Aren’t those AMY DAHL’S OWN WORDS??? But SHE don’t DO THAT??? > Is EVERYBODY going to ignore the character of these people who lie > and cover up for each other? > Here’s HOWE they get that happy excited to work look on the dogs… > >>> Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When > performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the > fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been > carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each > dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> > ANY QUESTIONS?

Response:

Jerry– I appreciate the apology, although it wasn’t necessary in public forum, with all of the other comments attached. I’m not fully aware of the entire situation, but like a level-headed, attempting to be well-informed person & dog-lover, I DO try to see all sides of any situation before passing any judgements. I simply come here for information on topics I am curious about. I AM informed, educated and caring enough to know what methods of training work for me and my pup, and which do not, and which I would never try. Thank you, Shelly & Coda *Mr. Naughtypants*

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello Shelly, > Excuse me, but there was an error. I thought you were shelly of > this signature: > shelly and elliott & harriet > http://members.home.net/scouvrette/index/ > — > I recommend to all rpdb readers that Jerry Howe > should be ignored as a crank and waste of time > I sincerely apologize. I thought you were someone else. > But I would like to address your question. I liked what you had said > but I deleted it for space… > Answer me this. I want to know how I "ignore" and "approve" > of it? > I have no idea if you are even familiar with what we’re talking > about. My comments to shelly were not intended to be addressed to > you, I don’t think I’ve ever read one of your posts until the > original post in this thread. Excuse me. > Because I don’t pick a fight with just about everyone on this > list? > Oh, so you ARE familiar with the issues. > So you know that the post intended for shelly and elliott and harriet > was about abusive training methods like twisting and pinching ears > and toes and BEATING DOGS WITH STICKS to make them retrieve. > I’m sorry, but I don’t think so. > I’m not asking you to fight with almost everybody on the list because > they think HURTING DOGS is necessary to train them. > Shelly > I just want you to be aware of that. You are. > Have you read this?: > You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > word "slap" into the article, inside supposedly quoted > material, without indicating that it was your addition. > You are even sleazier than I thought. > Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. > YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog. > YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. > ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper > wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog. > YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less > dogs may require you to progress to striking them more > sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive. > YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. > If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say > "No! Hold!" use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear > chuck the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand while > saying "No!">>> >>> Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 > >> Pinehurst, NC 28370 (http://www.oakhillkennel.com) > Here’s the full text. Got Milk? > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? > Aren’t those AMY DAHL’S OWN WORDS??? But SHE don’t DO THAT??? > Is EVERYBODY going to ignore the character of these people who lie > and cover up for each other? > Here’s HOWE they get that happy excited to work look on the dogs… >>> Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When > performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the > fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been > carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each > dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> > ANY QUESTIONS? > > > I don’t know if this will be of much interest, since Kimball > Lewis > > has since > > > moved, but if anyone is interest in sending cards or letters > of > > > condolences, here is the address for the Humane Society in > Central > > Oregon: > > > 61167 SE 27th Avenue > > > Bend, Oregon > > > 97702 > > > A friend & I have started one where we work and plan to mail it > & > > the > > > contributions we can collect by the end of the week. > > > Thanks, > > > Shelly & Codabear. > > Hello shelly, > > Sounds to ME like your interest in abuse is a red herring to > distract > > people from the REAL issues of HURTING dogs to train them… > > We don’t need to worry about the abusers the LAW is eager to take > > care of, we need to BUST the ABUSERS who are ABOVE the LAW, our > dog > > trainers who TEACH HURTING DOGS to train them… > > You know all about it, and YOU IGNORE it, because YOU APPROVE… > I > > think you should re examine YOUR value judgements and LOOK at > > YOURSELF and our Gang Of Thugs here on R.P.D.B, who jerk, choke, > > shock, hang, and pinch and twist dogs body parts, BEFORE pointing > the > > finger at DOG ABUSERS elsewhere. > > > You’re right. I never noticed before that you inserted the > > > word "slap" into the article, inside supposedly quoted > > > material, without indicating that it was your addition. > > > You are even sleazier than I thought. > > Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. > > YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > > > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog. > > YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. > > ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper > > wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > > > I would never slap a dog. > > YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. > > >>>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less > > dogs may require you to progress to striking them more > > sharply,>>>" > > > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > > > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive. > > YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. > > If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say > > "No! Hold!" use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear > > chuck the dog under the chin with your ever-ready right hand > while > > saying "No!">>> > > >>> Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 > > > >> Pinehurst, NC 28370 (http://www.oakhillkennel.com) > > Here’s the full text. Got Milk? > > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force1.html > > http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html??? > > Aren’t those AMY DAHL’S OWN WORDS??? But SHE don’t DO THAT??? > > Is EVERYBODY going to ignore the character of these people who > lie > > and cover up for each other? > > Here’s HOWE they get that happy excited to work look on the > dogs… > > >>> Any refusals are corrected with the ear pinch. When > > performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the > > fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been > > carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each > > dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> > > ANY QUESTIONS?

Response:

> Ah, Jerry – you are the one who claims to be able to cause a dog > to spike a fever of 106 and give it diarrhea in less than two > minutes, as an integral part of your ‘protection training’ > technique. > Now, _that_ is hurtful and abusive. >I’m not asking you to fight with almost everybody on the list > because >they think HURTING DOGS is necessary to train them.

Hello karibear, MY methods of protection training had never been discussed here, before you and your vicious pals, the Gang Of Thugs started on the bandwagon about the temp and diarrhea visceral reaction as a physiological response to MY protection training. You see karibear, I do not jerk, choke, shock, hit, or twist dog’s ears, toes, or testicles, and because I do not use fear, force, confrontation, punishment, or corrections of ANY KIND. Because my dogs are conditioned to a very gentle lifestyle, and are USED TO being dealt with in a CALM, QUIET, GENTLE, KINDLY, and CONFIDENT manner, that when an aggressor makes an assault on the dog’s handler, OUR dogs respond out of RAGE that anyone should THREATEN their kind, considerate, gentle, TRAINER, and make HIM AFRAID, and that’s WHY our dogs WILL on occasion have the same kind of visceral reaction to that as our Gang Of Thugs has had since I’ve exposed them as the dog abusers they are. Your pals haven’t mentioned it since I told them it was a PSYCHOLOGICAL stress reaction to sudden change in the lifestyle of the dog… My students dogs are not used to anyone behaving INAPPROPRIATELY, that’s what all their prior training has been about. When suddenly our handler is threatened with violence, it is overwhelming to our dogs that such a heretofore safe, stable, quiet, environment has suddenly turned into mayhem. That’s NORMAL. That’s not abuse. We don’t threaten the dog. WE THREATEN his owner, and the dog does what he has been programmed by Nature to do… PROTECT HIS BEST FRIEND. You seem to have a problem with ME, because I do not teach people to HURT dogs to train them… OUR experts HERE twist dog’s body parts, and BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS JUST to make them retrieve. But let’s just say that I did condone hurting dogs to train them. IF I DID condone hitting, pinching and twisting ears, flanking, and hurting, dogs, and BEATING THEM WITH STICKS, THEN I would be doing exactly as everyone else who trains for schutzhund or ring sport… as it says in their rules books… I don’t do those things because they are INAPPROPRIATE methods of "training." And I speak out against them AS A PROFESSIONAL TRAINER who DOES train protection dogs, but not with PAIN… NOW, let’s just say that I were guilty of HURTING dogs to train them. That would make ME just like YOUR PALS, wouldn’t it? IF I were just like YOUR PALS, I wouldn’t be giving them diarrhea and spiking their temperatures, as I OBVIOUSLY HAVE done to them over here on R.P.D.B. But let’s just say for the moment that I’m as vicious as YOUR PALS who jerk and choke shelter dogs because they don’t have the TIME to properly handle and train all the dogs who need to be choked and jerked by them before getting placed… WOULD THAT EXONERATE THEM??? Not even YOUR SICK MIND can construe that IF I HURT DOGS, that MY ALLEGED ABUSE JUSTIFIES OTHERS ABUSING and HURTING DOGS in what I consider to be CRIMINALLY INSANE BEHAVIOR… You are DEFENDING your pals, the R.P.D.B. Gang Of Thugs who jerk, choke, shock, and hit dogs, twist and pinch their body parts "THERAPEUTICALLY" (as Amy Dahl admitted) and HANG DOGS to "REHABILITATE" THEM (as others HERE admit). Defend them IF YOU CAN, from a TRAINING PERSPECTIVE. DEFEND THEIR ACTIONS based on LOGIC and reasonable PRINCIPLES of TRAINING and CRITERIA for accomplishing a necessary task, NOT BECAUSE I OR SOMEONE ELSE DOES "WORSE." Thanks for helping to make this eminently clear. Here’s something you’ll really enjoy: You and your pals, our Gang Of Thugs are vicious and sadistic dog abusers, hypocrites, who are trying to evade responsibility for some rather serious charges of dog abuse that I have leveled against them and have EXPOSED them with THEIR OWN WORDS… I’ve BLOWN THE WHISTLE on your pals, and it’s KILLING THEM, and YOU. Tough break, huh? Now, it’s time for cindy moore, amy dahl, doc dermer, and the rest of the Gang Of Thugs to SQUEAL as their charges do when THEY GET THEIR EARS PINCHED and are mercilessly SHOCKED and BEATEN WITH STICKS, and that’s JUST to teach them to retrieve…

Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

YOU LIE. HERE’S PROOF. If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!" use a chuck under the chin or pinch its ear chuck the dog under the chin… with your ever-ready right hand while saying "No!">>> >> Amy Frost Dahl Retriever Training phone: (910) 295-6710 >> Pinehurst, NC 28370 (http://www.oakhillkennel.com)

performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> ANY QUESTIONS? "Thus we should beware of clinging to vulgar opinions, and judge things by reason’s way, not by popular say." Montaigne "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Salvor Hardin "If you cannot convince them, confuse them." H.S. Truman. ;~) DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS… J>>> "CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw. "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Leo Tolstoy Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?: caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe-

Response:

Hello Steve, Nice to meet you.

> Hello Jerry, > You’ll forgive me for not knowing who you are, I’m sure, since > I hang out in rec.pets.dogs.rescue, and not .behavior,

That was by design, not coincidence. I was not prepared to address my issuses regarding training and handling dogs with KINDNESS and RESPECT, in the R.P.D.R. until I got the genie back in the bottle, so to speak, and educated the good folks on R.P.D.B. first, AND to EXPOSE their LIES defending themselves, in response to what I say. Everyone is aware of the facts over at rpdb… The LIARS have all been exposed. Their abuses of dogs is KNOWN and the facts have been established. Now I’m here in R.P.D.R. HOWE do you do? > but I must point out that you’re going off on other people when > it seems your real beef is with Amy Dahl,

No, no, no…tsk, tsk, tsk. Don’t be so narrow minded. I present and equal opportunity to expose all of our dog abusers in R.P.D.B. and I expect to rattle a few cages over here now that I’ve been properly introduced. > which seems rather foolish.

Better be careful who you are calling foolish… I’ve been in dog training for three dozen years specializing in behavior problems and protection, and I don’t hurt dogs to train them. MANY of the others do. WHO’S FOOLISH? > Especially since you’re appending Amy Dahl’s words to each > followup you made to *other* people’s posts.

The original text is on the links provided. I think that it’s time YOU start to FACE FACTS. I didn’t PUT THOSE WORDS to print, those are HER OWN WORDS. And it’s NOT just amy dahl. Cindy Moore, of our illustrious FAQ’s pages HURTS DOGS, and teaches abuse on her FAQ’s page. She teaches kneeing dogs, poping them on the snout, throwing them to the ground by the ears, and filling holes they’ve dug with water, and holding the dog’s head under to break them of digging holes. AND, let’s NOT OVERLOOK jerking, choking, shocking and twisting and pinching dog’s body parts to ENHANCE THE BOND BETWEEN TRAINER AND DOG. Does THAT sound like APPROPRIATE handling and training INFORMATION? I think not, and I can prove it, IF YOU AREN’T QUITE CLEAR YET. > Perhaps I’m missing something.

Perhaps you did, perhaps not… we’ll see. People who defend dog abusers are almost as guilty as the abusers themselves, WOULDN’T YOU AGREE, STEVE? Maybe you’d like to tell me HOWE YOU can justify pinching ears, shocking dogs, and BEATING THEM WITH STICKS to teach them to retrieve, the MOST NATURAL THING IN THE WORLD, for a Retriever??? Do ALL RESCUE FOLKS APPROVE of HURTING DOGS to TRAIN THEM? I hardly think so, but we don’t seem to have anyone HERE speaking out against HURTING DOGS…, we’ve got good folks like YOU, STEVE, DEFENDING DOG ABUSERS… WHAT GIVES??? That’s NOT HOWE it should be, is it, STEVE? Perhaps you are simply not aware of the real issues… I’ll be working with this group quite a bit over the coming months. I’m NOT going to slink away as you’ll be seeing some of our Gang Of Thugs run for cover. They’ll be finding someplace they can espouse HURTING DOGS to train them WITHOUT SCRUTINY, and WITHOUT ME calling people’s attention to their ATROCIOUS, CRIMINALLY INSANE BEHAVIOR… disguised as dog training. Here’s a project for you, steve… Take lyingfrostydahly’s own text, and turn it any which way you know HOWE, and construe it to be something APPROPRIATE. IF YOU CAN, I’ll apologize to one and all and go quietly on my way into retirement… Until then, don’t DEFEND DOG ABUSE and talk rescue at the same time, it’s HYPOCRITICAL and does not further your cause, does it? My next post will be discussing the ramifications of fear, force, confrontation, and repression of natural, innate, instinctive, behaviors, and it’s effects on TEMPERAMENT and the surrender of dogs to shelters, because of the INAPPROPRIATE training methods taught on rpdb and accepted here on rpdr. Be sure to read the sig file: "Thus we should beware of clinging to vulgar opinions, and judge things by reason’s way, not by popular say." Montaigne "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Salvor Hardin "If you cannot convince them, confuse them." H.S. Truman. ;~) DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS… J>>> "CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw. "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Leo Tolstoy Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?: caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe-

Response:

Hello john,

> : Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. > I don’t know anything about hurting dogs, but I know that Jerry > Howe makes claims for his "Doggy Do Right" that cannot > possibly be true,

You don’t know anything of the sort, do you, john? You have never seen Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) http://www.doggydoright.com , have you? Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) CURES dog behavior problems like hyperactivity, barking, chewing, digging, car sickness, fear of thunder, gun shyness, aggression, fence running, any obsessive/compulsive behaviors, and reduces spraying and fighting in cats. > as they violate the laws of physics as applied to the > attentuation of high-frequency sound over distance.

Says WHO? Someone who HURTS DOGS to train them because they aren’t bright enough to outwit a puppy dog? Someone who is ignorant and vicious enough to HURT DOGS to train them? Someone who is a PROVEN LIAR? Did YOU do any testing on Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO)? No, you’ve never heard ANYTHING except what the people I’ve EXPOSED AS DOG ABUSERS AND LIARS have to say about it… > Most people would call that *lying*.

Are YOU calling ME a LIAR? Are YOU making FALSE, MALICIOUS, DEROGATORY STATEMENTS about Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) in an ATTEMPT to DEFEND DOG ABUSERS? THAT’S not NICE. And, that’s not true, either. Unless you want to bet the farm and risk losing it in court, I’d strongly suggest you refrain from maliciously attacking Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO). The BIOSOUND Scientific Elves are NOT playing games. Attack ME about my training methods. Go ahead. I dare you. Criticize my work, it’s all in writing in the Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual available for FREE at http://www.doggydoright.com Choke me with my own words, but if you think the Elves will stand idly by while you say such intentional lies, YOU GOT ANOTHER THINK COMING… I’ve got no time for such foolishness, but I just might like to pick up a bit of property in YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD… Keep that in mind when you attack Doggy Do Right (and KITTY WILL TOO) and don’t call ME a liar… unless you can prove it in court. You may have to.

Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

performance is smooth, the stick can be added just as in the fetch from a sitting position. If the previous steps have been carefully done, the dog will soon be lunging eagerly for each dummy as soon as it sees it.>>> ANY QUESTIONS? "Thus we should beware of clinging to vulgar opinions, and judge things by reason’s way, not by popular say." Montaigne "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Salvor Hardin "If you cannot convince them, confuse them." H.S. Truman. ;~) DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS… J>>> "CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw. "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." Leo Tolstoy Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?: caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed. -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all. -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding. -Jerry Howe-

Response:

Jerry dithers: >MY methods of protection training had never been discussed here, >before you and your vicious pals, the Gang Of Thugs started on >the bandwagon about the temp and diarrhea visceral reaction as a >physiological response to MY protection training.

Well, of course this wasn’t discussed before. Nobody knew about it, not until you claimed that you did it. This is supposed to be a discussion group, though, and you can certainly expect a discussion of something obviously cruel and inhumane. And add to that your own comments some time back about not even liking dogs. It doesn’t matter what kind of response or reaction it is. Deliberately causing extremely high temperatures and diarrhea in a dog and claiming that it is a response to your unique training method is still animal cruelty. We’d worry a lot more if we thought you really had a dog, or had ever even trained a dog. Just take your meds, and everything will be all right. Maybe. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hello karibear, My methods are STILL not in question… Whatever I do has NO BEARING on the ABUSE YOUR PALS here CONDONE and the PAIN that YOUR PALS HERE INFLICT on dogs and the VICIOUS, SADISTIC METHODS they CALL TRAINING…

> Jerry dithers:

I don’t "dither." You and your pals are stumbleing all over themselves trying to LIE their way out of the charges I level against them. >MY methods of protection training had never been discussed here, >before you and your vicious pals, the Gang Of Thugs started on >the bandwagon about the temp and diarrhea visceral reaction as a >physiological response to MY protection training. > Well, of course this wasn’t discussed before. Nobody knew > about it, not until you claimed that you did it.

That shouldn’t come as a surprise. EVERYTHIING I teach comes as a SURPRISE to you CRETINS who HURT dogs to train them… > This is supposed to be a discussion group, though, and you > can certainly expect a discussion of something obviously cruel > and inhumane.

Cruel and inhumane? I DON’T BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS, as YOUR PAL Amy Dahl does. I DON’T TWIST AND PINCH DOG’S BODY PARTS to train them to Retrieve, the EASIEST, MOST NATURAL, job for a dog to do. YOUR PALS DO THAT. Ask cindy moore what a dog sounds like when she’s pinching and twisting his ears. I don’t FLANK dogs (grab the loose skin in front of the rear leg to rib cage) in protection training, and I don’t SWITCH (strike with a cane) DOGS as REQUIRED IN SCHUTZHUND… Don’t accuse ME of being CRUEL and INHUMANE because I train my dogs with such a gentle approach, that craziness like an assault on the dog’s owner triggers an extreme visceral response… Don’t try to turn it into something it’s NOT. The elevated temp and loose stools ARE NORMAL REACTONS and the effects are temporary. YOU are LYING to PROTECT YOUR VICIOUS PALS HERE, by making people THINK THAT I ABUSE DOGS… EVEN IF I DO HURT DOGS, that does NOT EXONERATE YOUR PALS, cindy moore and amy dahl and the rest of the koehler Gang Of Thugs WHO ARE PREPARED TO HANG DOGS to "REHABILITATE" THEM… > And add to that your own comments some time back about not > even liking dogs.

IDIOT. That was a sarcastic post to your pal lyingdogdirty who HANGS DOGS by the HUNDREDS as does his wife when NECESSARY… > It doesn’t matter what kind of response or reaction it is. > Deliberately causing extremely high temperatures and > diarrhea in a dog and claiming that it is a response to your > unique training method is still animal cruelty.

Says a CRETIN who is DEFENDING REAL DOG ABUSERS. > We’d worry a lot more if we thought you really had a dog, or > had ever even trained a dog. Just take your meds, and > everything will be all right. Maybe.

You don’t LIKE it that I have EXPOSED ALL YOUR PALS, the Gang Of Thugs who JERK, CHOKE, SHOCK, PINCH AND TWIST DOG’S BODY PARTS, HANG DOGS TO "REHABILITATE" THEM, AND BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS to make them retrieve… the most natural thing in the world for a Retriever dog… It’s GAMETIME. The gig is up. You and your pals might as well admit the truth and remedy the situation, or face constant ridicule and contempt from EVERYBODY here, because that crap has got to cease… We don’t NEED to HURT DOGS to train them… If our Gang Of Thugs is not smart enough to outwit a puppy dog and has to resort to HURTING DOGS to train them, I suggest they get out of this business, or be prepared to DEFEND themselves against charges of CRIMINALLY INSANE BEHAVIOR. Here’s one of YOUR PALS LYING again:

Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

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Take the pills the nice lady has, babycakes. You’re spluttering again. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Careful, babycakes. Your jealousy is showing. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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> Take the pills the nice lady has, babycakes. You’re spluttering > again.

Hello karibear, HOWE can you say that? YOUR PALS HURT DOGS to train them, YOU DEFEND them, and say I’m sputtering??? HERE: I recommend that all rpdb readers who have a disclaimer about Jerry Howe, BE WATCHED. Jerry Howe does NOT HURT dogs to train them. Those I accuse of ABUSING DOGS, tell you I hurt them. Why are they so FREAKED OUT? Because I am EXPOSING them. WHERE THERE’S SMOKE, THERE’S FIRE… j;~} HERE’S PROOF:

Me? I don’t HURT DOGS and LIE. YOU do. You ABUSE DOGS. And you LIE. Here’s PROOF. > I would never advise anyone to slap a dog.

YOU DO. You LIE. Here’s PROOF. ">>>Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.>>> > I would never slap a dog.

YOU DO, YOU LIE, HERE’S PROOF. >>Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog Tougher, less

dogs may require you to progress to striking them more sharply,>>>" > I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, > where slapping a dog is anything but destructive.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > x-no-archive:yes snip > Hi Crazy Jerry! > No, I was embarrassed. I’m just a damned liar like Lynn, Dianne, Cindy > Bob and everyone else. You are the ONLY one who tells the truth. I > didn’t want to get caught lying but you caught me! > Since we are all such a bunch of damned abusers & liars, why don’t you > run along and and dig a big hole and climb in, OK? maybe you’ll > suffocate > while you’re at it!

ROTLMAO! Terri

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Hi All, Here is how you can make your visits here a lot more pleasant NEW ?? Here IsThe WayYou Can Get Rid Of GARBAGE POSTS Are you here to learn about dogs? Do you need assistance? Are you tired and sickened by the anger, insults, innuendoes, false accusations and unprofessional posts that appear here? Try killfiling(filtering) out certain trouble makers and those that spend all their time yah-yahing others. Don’t worry, you won’t miss any valuable tips. All you will miss is the childish nonsense. Dianne Shoenberg recently posted some valuable advice. I followed it and now for the first time in many years, do find this newsgroup a pleasant place. And yes, the trolls will still yah-yah-yah-yah-yah,insult, slander and catcall. But what I don’t see, will not bother me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Dianne Schoenberg) writes: >Most, though not all, newsreaders enable you to automatically mark >certain posts or threads as read. This is usually referred to as a >killfile or a filter. Instructions on how to create a killfile for >some of the more common newsreaders are below. If yours isn’t listed, >try looking in your browser under "help." >Disclaimer: These instructions have been compiled from a variety >of sources. I only use rn myself so if the instructions below can’t >help you, I can’t either. Conversely, if you have any additions or >corrections to this list, please feel free to email me at >reposted. >Many, many thanks to everyone who’s contributed!–Dianne >AGENT > Pull down the ‘Window’ on the Menu. Go to Usenet Filters and click on > that. > The first icon on the toolbox should be to ‘Add Kill Filter’. Click > on that. > The edit window will come up. In the area ‘Filter Expression’, write > ‘Jerry Howe’. And then under ‘Kill Action’, mark whatever little > button you want. >AOL 5.0 (note: versions prior to 5.0 lack killfiles) > From the newsgroups window, choose preferences and a window will open > that says, "Global newsgroup preferences." Click on the filtering > tab (there should be filtering, viewing, and posting tabs). Select > filter type from the pulldown menu. Enter the filter in the text field > below the pulldown menu. Then click on the "add filter" button below > the text field. Then click "save" at the bottom of the page, and > you’re done. >FREE AGENT > Regrettably, Free Agent does not have a filter feature. Shell out > the few bucks for the upgrade; I’m told you won’t regret it. >MT NEWSREADER FOR THE MAC: > Lets you killfile in a large number of ways. When a window showing > one article is foremost (and when an article is highlighted in a window > showing the list of articles for a group), a couple of entries on the > ‘Filter’ submenu of the Edit menu are enabled. These are ‘Filter this > author…’ and ‘Filter this subject…’, which create author or subject > filters for the active articles respectively. >NETSCAPE COMMUNICATOR > Under the Edit Menu, choose the Message Filters… command. > In the resulting dialog box, click the New button to define a new > filter. Give the filter a name, like "Filter Jerry." > Set the criteria for the filter. For example, "sender is Jerry Howe" > or "subject contains lying". > Select what to do with filtered messages (delete, ignore, etc…) > Click OK. You may have to disconnect and reconnect for it to take > effect. >OUTLOOK EXPRESS 5.0 > Go to the toolbar at the top of any post written by the person you > wish to banish from your computer. Click on "Message"; then, on the > drop-down menu, click on "Block Sender". >RN & TRN > To create a global killfile in either of these newsreaders, create a > file in your News directory called KILL (this must be in all capital > letters). Use any text editor to enter the following line into it: > newsgroup you read. >X-NEWS > When reading an article, press ‘k’ to add the poster to the plonk > file. It will then ask you for an expiration period – 100 days is > the default. If you want a person permanently zapped, change "100" > to "0".

Here is another addition to the above : >Howe to be Jerry-free >If you filter out a combo of messages from Jerry and messages about Jerry >(with subjects ‘ninnyboy’, ‘babycakes’, ‘Jerry’, ‘choke’, ‘choking’, and all >permutations of ‘Wits’ End’) your time here will be virtually Jerry-free. >For filtering out Jerry’s other personalities, also add posts from Lawrence >and Anonymous. >Cate

If you have trouble setting up the above, just post your request for help. Call it "NEED HELP FILTERING" , and someone will be glad to assist. There are many caring and knowledgeable posters here that will give you great tips on dogs. Don’t let the nuts discourage you. Now let’s talk dawgs, Bob Maida Dog Training/Problem Counseling since 1969 Herndon, Virginia Do make your visit here pleasant. Filter out the Trolls, Troublemakers, and Malcontents. If you are not one of the above, that line should not have offended you.

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Dog Behavior Information

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