Question:

I have heard of shock collars and seen them mentioned in a couple of posts, but could someone please explain to me what they are and how they actually work?  Thanks!  Either post or email… -Julie —       Julie Miller               Half baked cookies in the oven,                                       Half baked people on the bus,        "Kimjule"                 There’s a little bit of fruitcake left in                                       EVERYONE of us!

Response:

Hello there! A shock collar is a collar you put on the dog with a radio receiver

Response:

> I have heard of shock collars and seen them mentioned in a couple of posts, > but could someone please explain to me what they are and how they actually > work?  Thanks!  Either post or email…

Hi, Julie… Shock collars (also called "electronic collars") work on the principle of the dog wearing a collar that has contact prongs that deliver an "electric" correction to the dogs neck.  Depending on what kind of collar, the intensity and duration of the "shock" varies.  One of my friends described the highest setting on the particular collar I have as the kind of shock you get from touching a doorknob after sliding your stockinged feet on the carpet in winter. Some collars have a receiver attached to the prongs and the transmitter can be hand-held or run underground (what you find with an "invisible fence").  Some are called "bark collars" where there is a sensor also mounted at the dog’s neck that senses vibrations made when the dog barks. As with *any* training tool, they are not necessarily suitable to all dogs and all training situations.  In fact, used improperly (either trainer-error or by using them on a dog whose temperament or age isn’t suitable), they can really screw up a dog’s attitude and your training. -Holly

Response:

More specifically,  A shock collar most commonly is a standard nylon collar with a small box approx 2" X 2" that have 2 metal probes that make contact with the dogs neck.  The box administers a corrective electric shock.  The collars are almost always operated via a radio transceiver, the good ones have varying intesities of shock. n.b. the collars should only be used by those with experience in training dogs.

Response:

Shock collars are also the latest quick fix fad in dog training.  While they can get good results with some dogs and some trainers, they are much more likely to cause fear, anxiety and other problems (like aggression) in dogs who either don’t have the proper temperament to be able to handle the shock and/or are being trained by someone who doesn’t know how to properly use a shock collar. I was walking Thunder yesterday and stopped to talk to the postal carrier. He asked how the dog training was going.  I said that Thunder was doing fine but because he was kept as an outdoor dog before we got him, he had some bad habits like chasing bikes and barking at them.  The carrier said, "Oh so you’re gonna get him one of those shock collars, right?"   WRONG!  What Thunder needs is to learn that bikes aren’t scary and aren’t fun to bark at.  The last thing he needs is to get shocked when he sees and starts barking at a bike.  What we are doing is working on sit stays and down stays and then quietly holding a stay when a bike goes by.  You can’t train a dog when you aren’t there.  Quick fixes don’t work. -Aileen

Response:

>Shock collars are also the latest quick fix fad in dog training. [snip] >  The carrier >said, "Oh so you’re gonna get him one of those shock collars, right?"   >WRONG!  What Thunder needs is to learn that bikes aren’t scary and aren’t >fun to bark at.  The last thing he needs is to get shocked when he sees >and starts barking at a bike.  What we are doing is working on sit stays >and down stays and then quietly holding a stay when a bike goes by.  You >can’t train a dog when you aren’t there.  Quick fixes don’t work. >-Aileen

I wholeheartedly agree.  One big problem in our society is that people want what they want when they want it and aren’t willing to make commitments and put in the effort to reap the rewards they seek.  This is often true of people who own dogs… a dog is great as long as one takes the time to train it, feed it, take care of its medical needs and give the dog the love and attention it needs and deserves.  Thinking that a shock collar is a shortcut to having a well behaved dog is wrong… and frankly, I don’t like the idea of a shock collar at all.  I wouldn’t hit my child… and while you can’t reason with a dog or explain things to a dog the way you would with a child, would you resort to physical violence against a helpless little person just because you can’t make them understand why they shouldn’t run across the street or draw on the wall?  Then why would you use cruel methods on a helpless dog?

Response:

>One of my friends described the highest >setting on the particular collar I have as the kind of shock you get from >touching a doorknob after sliding your stockinged feet on the carpet in >winter.

What do you mean one of your friends "described" the shock? You strap on electrical charges on to your dog without knowing how it feels first hand? Anyone who uses these things ought to wear one around the house for a few days while absorbing random shocks at the highest level. If you can’t do this then what are you doing? Lee

Response:

>>One of my friends described the highest >setting on the particular collar I have as the kind of shock you get from >touching a doorknob after sliding your stockinged feet on the carpet in >winter. > What do you mean one of your friends "described" the shock?

Ignoring the tone of your posting, I’ll answer your question… my *friend* described it that way putting it into words.  You *assumed* I did not try it.   I did… but I used my friend’s description and attributed it appropriately. If you’ve got a problem with that… tough. -Holly

Response:

> Anyone who uses these things ought to wear one around the house for a few > days while absorbing random shocks at the highest level.

Oh, and I should also mention that this statement shows that you are completely clueless about an electronic collar as a training tool. -Holly

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->One of my friends described the highest >setting on the particular collar I have as the kind of shock you get from >touching a doorknob after sliding your stockinged feet on the carpet in >winter. >What do you mean one of your friends "described" the shock? >You strap on electrical charges on to your dog without knowing how it >feels first hand? >Anyone who uses these things ought to wear one around the house for a few >days while absorbing random shocks at the highest level. >If you can’t do this then what are you doing? >Lee

Oh, come on now.  I agree you should test out the collar on yourself before using it.  But when a dog has the collar on, the shocks are NOT at random times.  They come as a correction, the same as any other training collar.  Do you use a training collar of any kind?  Have you worn it on your neck for a few days and had someone "pop" it at random intervals?  I don’t suppose so.  So why do you advocate this with electronic collars?  And why at the highest level?  You’re just having a typical knee-jerk, shock-collars-are-cruel reaction.  Oh, by the way, shock collars are NOT inherently cruel.  The *people* who use them in a cruel fashion are cruel. -Dave

Response:

> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior

big snip > Do you use a training collar of any kind?  Have you
> worn it on your neck for a few days and had someone "pop" it at
> random intervals?  I don’t suppose so.  So why do you advocate this
> with electronic collars?  And why at the highest level?  You’re just
> having a typical knee-jerk, shock-collars-are-cruel reaction.  Oh, by
> the way, shock collars are NOT inherently cruel.  The *people* who use > them in a cruel fashion are cruel.
> -Dave

Bravo, Dave!  So refreshing to find common sense and logic instead of knee-jerk policies and political correctness.  You are right about the *people* who use them in a cruel fashion.  Calling the collars bad makes as much sense as saying guns kill people.  Nope, people kill people. They just happen to use guns among other things.                      …laurie                 Mother Mastiff

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior >big snip > Do you use a training collar of any kind?  Have you > worn it on your neck for a few days and had someone "pop" it at > random intervals?  I don’t suppose so.  So why do you advocate this > with electronic collars?  And why at the highest level?  You’re just > having a typical knee-jerk, shock-collars-are-cruel reaction.  Oh, by > the way, shock collars are NOT inherently cruel.  The *people* who use > them in a cruel fashion are cruel. > -Dave >Bravo, Dave!  So refreshing to find common sense and logic instead of >knee-jerk policies and political correctness. >                     …laurie >                Mother Mastiff

Ditto!! Gwen Perfect Paws, Inc.  Dog Behavior & Training Center  San Francisco URL:  http://www.perfectpaws.com "…and having created the dog, on the seventh day God rested."

Response:

Hi,    Shock collars may have their place in 1/100 of 1% of problems when  ALL ELSE HAS FAILED to resolve these problems. And then only in the hands of an experienced,humane professional. And anyone that uses one on a puppy should be forced to wear one and be shocked while standing in a tub of water!    There are many people out there that call themselves dog trainers and advocate shock collars in circumstances other than the above. These are not dog trainers,just ignorant people that know nothing about proper dog handling and training.                                                        Bob Maida

Response:

: an experienced,humane professional. And anyone that uses one on a puppy : should be forced to wear one and be shocked while standing in a tub of : water!      Due to the way a shock collar functions, standing in a tub of water wouldn’t make a difference. Jeff

Response:

Jeff,    Shock collar advocates say the sensation dog receives is no worse than the static electricity shock you receive when touching a door knob.    What happens when the dog receives a static shock(generated by the carpeting) from a visitor trying to pet him? And lets say that dog’s been trained with a shock collar. What is his mental state after being shocked by someone making a friendly overture? I’ll been he’s at least damn well confused!   The collars are too readily available to ignorant people. There are many wannabees and willabees that think they are dog trainers and call themselves dog trainers but they are not dog trainers.    There are no short cuts to dog training. It requires time and patience. Too many are looking for short cuts or quick fixes, and are using the shock collar rather than taking the time to properly train the dog.    If it were up to me, I would ban the sale of SC except for qualified individuals certified by peers and humane groups.   Bob Maida

Response:

>Hi, >   Shock collars may have their place in 1/100 of 1% of problems when  ALL >ELSE HAS FAILED to resolve these problems. And then only in the hands of >an experienced,humane professional. And anyone that uses one on a puppy >should be forced to wear one and be shocked while standing in a tub of >water! >   There are many people out there that call themselves dog trainers and >advocate shock collars in circumstances other than the above. These are >not dog trainers,just ignorant people that know nothing about proper dog >handling and training. >                                                       Bob Maida

From years of training labradors, I am convinced that positive reinforcement is the best way to train dogs. I do not advocate physical punishment except for the most grevious offense of all – chasing cars! If you consistently spend time every day with your dog, you can train him to do anything with positive reinforcement and you will not run the risk of making it afraid of you or of whatever the hell is causing those shocks on his neck that he cannot figure out. Just remember to be patient and when you start losing your cool with the dog, quit for the time being. I have never seen a dog that positive reinforcement will not work with (although some take longer than others to learn). David Noblitt

Response:

:    Shock collar advocates say the sensation dog receives is no worse than : the static electricity shock you receive when touching a door knob.      Anyone with half a brain knows how silly the above is.  The question is, is the shock worse than the jerk of a choker. :    What happens when the dog receives a static shock(generated by the : carpeting) from a visitor trying to pet him? And lets say that dog’s been : trained with a shock collar. What is his mental state after being shocked : by someone making a friendly overture? I’ll been he’s at least damn well : confused!      What happens when you are training a dog with a choker and then one time the dog gets its leash tangled around its legs and accidentally "corrects" itself for a second?  Probably nothing…  in addition, I doubt if static electricity is that much a recurring problem in most areas. :   The collars are too readily available to ignorant people. There are many : wannabees and willabees that think they are dog trainers and call : themselves dog trainers but they are not dog trainers. :    There are no short cuts to dog training. It requires time and patience. : Too many are looking for short cuts or quick fixes, and are using the : shock collar rather than taking the time to properly train the dog.      How do you train the dog without SOME method of administering corrections at some point?  What makes one method of correcting more humane than another?  I am considering getting a shock collar for my dog.  She eats everything she encounters while she is being walked.   Corrections administered via the choker confuse her because it is the same correction she receives when she tries to move out of the 15′ radius of her lead.  What is your suggestions to use as opposed to the shock collar? Jeff

Response:

Hi,   As an add on to my prior post, it sounds like you need personal instruction on how to correct with lead and collar. Find a trainer that will walk with you and dog and show you how. Collar corrections like any other physical activity cannot be demo’d online. Good Luck                                              Bob Maida

Response:

Hi,   After 26 years of training and working with other peoples problem pets(that make your dog look like Mary Poppins) here is my advice.   Talk with your vet,animal shelter,dog groomer,and breed rescue people. Ask them all about training programs that work. Whoever’s name keeps coming up with positive reviews is the one to use. Their methods must be sensible,practicle and humane. They must also demonstrate they can handle and get your dog to relate, as well as teach you to handle.   Learn more about dogs read:MAN MEETS DOG by Konrad Lorenz                            UNDERSTANDING YOUR DOG by Michael Fox                     DOG BEHAVIOR by Ian Dunbar(TFH)  PEOPLE POOCHES AND PROBLEMS by Job Evans(Howell Book House)  SURVIVING YOUR DOG’S ADOLESENCE BY Carol Benjamin(Howell Book House)  HOW TO BE YOUR DOG’S BEST FRIEND by The Monks of New Skete(Little Brown & Co.)  Real dog trainers and good dog handlers do not need shock collars. If some fool has recommended that you use a SC on this young dog then you are only going to ruin your dog based on ill advise.    I give puppy and obedience lessons and run a dog boarding school(for special problems).I also have 3 employees, one of which lives on the premises. I have a constant flow of clients and pets coming and going all of the time.   My pets consist of :English Mastiff 3yr Male unneutered                                 English Mastiff 8yr female spayed                                 Rottweiller  3 yr female  spayed                                  Pomeranian 5yr female spayed                                 Min Schnauzer 10yr male  I also have 2 cats,2goats,2ponies. I can leave them all out togeher without a worry. All live in house cept livestock. Plus a boarding school on the premises.  When I’m working with a client my animals are all loose and don’t interfere but they do provide real time virtual reality distractions. I controll all my critters with voice. No yellin an screaming.    There are many trainers like this out there that know animals and don’t need or use SHOCK COLLARS. Seek them out,even if it means driving a bit.    This young dog of yours has no major problems,don’t be swayed by some idiot that tells you to use a SC. Go to someone that has real dog knowledge, but the right knowledge.                                                                  Bob Maida

Response:

>    If it were up to me, I would ban the sale of SC except for qualified > individuals certified by peers and humane groups.

Lots of people feel exactly the same way about guns…  (NO… I will NOT carry on a political debate… But… as for the rest… yes, lots of people think e-collars are a substitute for training… they are *NOT*. As for the problem with static shocks from petting, I’ve thought of that myself (as I mentioned in e-mail).  The only thing I can think of is that the petting occurs at fur level while the e-collar is at skin level.  My "kids" don’t seem to have any reaction or confusion to static…  but then, even if they have the e-collars on… it’s really pretty rare that the collar actually gets activated… again, that’s because it’s a *reinforcement* tool, not really a training tool per se. -Holly

Response:

> :    Shock collar advocates say the sensation dog receives is no worse than > : the static electricity shock you receive when touching a door knob. >      Anyone with half a brain knows how silly the above is.  The question > is, is the shock worse than the jerk of a choker.

Well, thanks, but I have far more than "half a brain", and I’d like to know what you think is so "silly" about the statement above?  People want to know what it feels like… how would *you* explain it? Nonetheless, I agree with much of what you’ve written… > I am considering getting a shock collar for my > dog.  She eats everything she encounters while she is being walked.   > Corrections administered via the choker confuse her because it is the > same correction she receives when she tries to move out of the 15′ radius > of her lead.  What is your suggestions to use as opposed to the shock > collar?

The important thing is training to a command, I think… and I can’t tell if you’ve done this or not from what you’ve said.  (You also don’t mention how old your dog is.) Especially in early training, corrections really ought to be associated with a command… "No bite"… "Leave it"…. "Down".  Corrections out in mid-air really don’t do the dog any good… So, what I would suggest is to give your dog a command when you correct her for moving out of the 15′ radius… (I use "Let’s go!" with mine… that means "Hey!  This way!" to them.) and another one for not eating something.  (I use "Leave it!" for not touching something they are trying to touch… whether that be a cat, a shoe or something they perceive as food (which I guess includes a cat or a shoe . So, try correcting her to "Leave it" (or some other choice of command) when she tries to eat stuff on her walk.  If you try finding a different kind of correction for everything for which one corrects a dog, you will fast run out of ideas! Let me give you an example… all of my dogs (3 of them) know "Leave It".   (Well, Yuno’s still learning it sometimes… but I’ve only had him a few months.)  Winter (GSD, 21 months, stubborn, strong-willed goofball) knows "Leave It" very well… (and in fact on long-distance "Leave It"s decided that it meant "Go sit at Mom’s side." all on her own.)  We were visiting friends and were standing out in the pasture.  Winter had the e-collar on.  (I always have it on her when we’re someplace unfamiliar as a fail-safe.)  (Actually, Chloe had it on, too.)  Anyway, the dogs decided to take off after one of my friends’ cats.  I gave the "Leave it!" command.  Chloe stopped immediately.   Winter didn’t even think about it.  Her focus was on the cat (now running).  I gave the command a 2nd time and issued the lowest correction (usually enough to break her focus enough to realize she’d gotten a command)… not even an ear twitch.  The third command got a medium correction following it.  Got an ear twitch that time, but she kept up the chase.  Fourth command got the high correction (probably the only time I’ve ever used the high on her).  No yelp, no squeal, no nothing… except she immediately stopped the chase and came running over, tail wagging, panting and sat perfectly square at heel.  This was a command she *knows*… but she was so focused on "Get the cat!  Get the cat!  Get the cat!  Get the cat!" that "Leave it!" hadn’t made it through.   The collar in this case made a hole for the "Leave it!" to get through so she could process it. Like I said… make sure you’re associating your corrections with a command. That may help your situation. -Holly

Response:

: > :    Shock collar advocates say the sensation dog receives is no worse than : > : the static electricity shock you receive when touching a door knob. : > : >      Anyone with half a brain knows how silly the above is.  The question : > is, is the shock worse than the jerk of a choker. : Well, thanks, but I have far more than "half a brain", and I’d like to know : what you think is so "silly" about the statement above?  People want to know : what it feels like… how would *you* explain it?      About twice the intensity of an average static shock, or as strong as the strongest static shock most people have received.   Jeff

Response:

: The important thing is training to a command, I think… and I can’t tell if : you’ve done this or not from what you’ve said.  (You also don’t mention how : old your dog is.)      My dog is a 6 month old Dalmatian.  She has quite a story.  Someone bought her.  They then went on vacation and left her with some friends.   They never came back.  We got her at 4 months.  She was obviously tied up outside all day.  I have done a load of work with her, but still have some minor problems.  I am very happy with her improvements over the last couple of months, though. : So, try correcting her to "Leave it" (or some other choice of command) when : she tries to eat stuff on her walk.  If you try finding a different kind of : correction for everything for which one corrects a dog, you will fast run out : of ideas!      It’s really just the food thing that is a problem.  According to a behavioral specialist I was communicating with, she has "strong appetitive interests".  She used to growl and try to bite when I approach her at the food bowl.  If I "corrected" her or did anything else anyone suggested, she would exhibit even more bizarre behavior.  She would take a bite of food and step six feet back from the bowl to chew it… then step back to the bowl to take another bite, etc… it took about 4 weeks to ger her past that… she would do the "step back" if I even said one word to her while eating.  My guess is that she was hit or something.        When we go on walks, she is nose-to-the-ground.  She sucks up rocks and such far faster than I can notice, and by the time I can say or do anything, she has usually swallowed it.  "Spit it out" works on large objects, but not the small stuff.  I feel like the ability to administer a correction INSTANTLY would make it more clear to her exactly what it is that I don’t want her to do in this circumstance.  I am not considering an EC out of laziness, I am considering it because it seems like the best way to clearly convey my intentions to the dog.  It will allow me to correct her as soon as I see her pick something up, not 2 or 3 seconds later, which seems more humane to me.  I am very open to viable options.  I do have a slight "problem" dog, tho (not based upon the garbage eating). Jeff

Response:

>Jeff, >   Give it a break. Obviously from the way you described this dog, she has >some temperament(emotional) problems. How the hell can anyone justify >using a SC on this SIX MONTH OLD DOG? Find a good dog handler/instructor. >Not all people that offer training services fall into that category. >    Bob Maida

It’s fairly obvious that Bob doesn’t really know what remote trainers are all about.  If you have questions, call the EXPERTS on remote training techniques at the Tri-Tronics Training Center in Marysville, CA. 916-741-0375 Quite safe and humane, and six months is a good age to start a pup. Steven T. Kintner— Canine Behavior Management Technologies Shadowfax Retrievers  URL http://www.ior.com/~skintner

Response:

Well, I was trying to stay out of this but I can’t help myself anymore > Real dog trainers and good dog handlers do not need shock collars. If >some fool has recommended that you use a SC on this young dog then you are >only going to ruin your dog based on ill advise.

"Real dog trainers don’t need shock collars". Sounds like a logo for a T-shirt. I have no doubt that you are an excellent trainer. I too have trained dogs for many years, although I have worked mostly with shelties, which as anyone will say, are not really a challenge to train (as a rule). I have never used a shock collar, however, I have worked with other people who have used them and I *do* beleive there are times that it is a good training tool. Now I certainly would use it only as a last resort, and definitely not on a young dog, but for a dog that you have worked with for a long time, one who knows what you are asking of him and yet insists on disobeying, it can be a valuable tool. Certainly it would be better for a dog to feel a few minor shocks now than be hit by a car someday because he got loose and decided to ignore your command to come. >   I give puppy and obedience lessons and run a dog boarding school(for >special problems).I also have 3 employees, one of which lives on the >premises. I have a constant flow of clients and pets coming and going all >of the time. >  My pets consist of :English Mastiff 3yr Male unneutered >                                English Mastiff 8yr female spayed >                                Rottweiller  3 yr female  spayed >                                 Pomeranian 5yr female spayed >                                Min Schnauzer 10yr male > I also have 2 cats,2goats,2ponies. I can leave them all out togeher >without a worry. All live in house cept livestock. Plus a boarding school >on the premises.

How very nice of you to list your credentials, animal-wise. Obviously you must know more than anyone else, having so many animals, plus an employee who lives on the premise. I’m not trying to be insulting, well, actually, maybe I am. It’s just that there are plenty of us out here that have just as much experience training and raising animals. Maybe we are right too. > When I’m working with a client my animals are all loose and don’t >interfere but they do provide real time virtual reality distractions. I >controll all my critters with voice. No yellin an screaming. >   There are many trainers like this out there that know animals and don’t >need or use SHOCK COLLARS. Seek them out,even if it means driving a bit.

Yes, but they are not the ones that will be training the dog, and living with it all the time. I for one did not come by an ability to train dogs overnight. I am not saying a shock collar should be used as a substitute for proper obedience training, absolutely not! But not every novice trainer is going to be able to handle everything a dog could possibly throw at them with success and a shock collar can be a life-saver. I would avoid a trainer that jumps into using a shock-collar right away, but it is NOT a torture device. Perhaps you have to see a dog being trained with one to understand. Sort of like a prong collar. How many people think prongs are horrible and cruel. But those of us who train with them know that they are actually in many cases more effective and safer than a regular choke collar. Please try not to be so judgemental. I respect your decision not to use shock collars, but those of us who do are "real trainers" as well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   This young dog of yours has no major problems,don’t be swayed by some >idiot that tells you to use a SC. Go to someone that has real dog >knowledge, but the right knowledge. >                                                                 Bob Maida

Response:

I used one for about 4 weeks with my dog.  I only had to shock her about four times.  You have to be careful with this device because if you don’t know what your doing you can ruin a dog. The shock collar will NOT  train a dog.  It will correct behavior. i.e. "Sit dog." Dog does not sit, shock dog.  "Come dog." Dog does not come, shock dog. This is the reason I used a shock collar. My female cattle dog would run in front of a 18 wheeler to get a cat. She knows the commands "no" "stay" and "come", but when it came to chasing cats she would become deaf. The training went like this.  Taking a walk off leash, dog sees cat before she can react I give the command "no" she ignores me and begins chase, as she takes that first step I would shock her with a quick push of the remote button.  If she continued I would flip the switch to the high setting and give the command again if she did not stop I would give her another quick shock. Some things need to be said. 1. My dog knew all her commands very well. 2.  I shocked myself with this collar repeatedly at the setting I planned to use on my dog.      If it made her yip it was ok, if it made her yelp I turned it down.  It is not painful, I      shocked myself with the highest setting. 3.  Trim the hair where the two connectors will be touching the dogs throat. 4.  You must be consistent, if you are not the dog will become very confused and if       not used properly you will do more damage than the damn collar is worth. After my training with my dog I have never had a problem with her chasing cats, dogs or generally not obeying my command not to run out in the road. Now for those of you who may slam me for using this collar let me say this. I thought about this for a long time.  My conclusion was that it was more inhumane to allow her to run out in the street and be run over than to receive a little shock. If your dog does not know the commands, and you are not familiar with a shock training collar than do not use one.  In the wrong hand you can destroy a dog. Blah, Blah, Blah Mike

Response:

Does anyone have any experience with shock collars?  

Response:

>Does anyone have any experience with shock collars?  

Sniff…sniff…sniff. — Dogman E-mail address rot13 encoded to foil advertising spam I pledge never to respond to any trolls on THIS list. Refer to: http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/4120/oddsnends.html (frames version) http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/4120/plaintext.html (text version) for a list of r.p.d.* trolls. Newbies to r.p.d.* should start here! Remember The Pierce Collies! http://www.i1.net/~dogman/pierce.htm "Scenes From A Death Camp" About Field Trials And Hunting Retrievers! http://www.i1.net/~dogman/fieldtrl.htm Retriever Field Trial News http://www.retrievernews.com Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.  H. L. Mencken

Response:

I used one for about 4 weeks with my dog.  I only had to shock her about four times.  You have to be careful with this device because if you don’t know what your doing you can ruin a dog. The shock collar will NOT  train a dog.  It will correct behavior. i.e. "Sit dog." Dog does not sit, shock dog.  "Come dog." Dog does not come, shock dog. This is the reason I used a shock collar. My female cattle dog would run in front of a 18 wheeler to get a cat. She knows the commands "no" "stay" and "come", but when it came to chasing cats she would become deaf. The training went like this.  Taking a walk off leash, dog sees cat before she can react I give the command "no" she ignores me and begins chase, as she takes that first step I would shock her with a quick push of the remote button.  If she continued I would flip the switch to the high setting and give the command again if she did not stop I would give her another quick shock. Some things need to be said. 1. My dog knew all her commands very well. 2.  I shocked myself with this collar repeatedly at the setting I planned to use on my dog.      If it made her yip it was ok, if it made her yelp I turned it down.  It is not painful, I      shocked myself with the highest setting. 3.  Trim the hair where the two connectors will be touching the dogs throat. 4.  You must be consistent, if you are not the dog will become very confused and if       not used properly you will do more damage than the damn collar is worth. After my training with my dog I have never had a problem with her chasing cats, dogs or generally not obeying my command not to run out in the road. Now for those of you who may slam me for using this collar let me say this. I thought about this for a long time.  My conclusion was that it was more inhumane to allow her to run out in the street and be run over than to receive a little shock. If your dog does not know the commands, and you are not familiar with a shock training collar than do not use one.  In the wrong hand you can destroy a dog. Blah, Blah, Blah Mike

Response:

Does anyone have any experience with shock collars?  

Response:

>Does anyone have any experience with shock collars?  

Sniff…sniff…sniff. — Dogman E-mail address rot13 encoded to foil advertising spam I pledge never to respond to any trolls on THIS list. Refer to: http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/4120/oddsnends.html (frames version) http://www.geocities.com/heartland/plains/4120/plaintext.html (text version) for a list of r.p.d.* trolls. Newbies to r.p.d.* should start here! Remember The Pierce Collies! http://www.i1.net/~dogman/pierce.htm "Scenes From A Death Camp" About Field Trials And Hunting Retrievers! http://www.i1.net/~dogman/fieldtrl.htm Retriever Field Trial News http://www.retrievernews.com Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.  H. L. Mencken

Response: