Question:

>Hi all, >A few years ago I remember reading of a book whose title was "The >secret life of dogs" or "The secret lives of dogs" or something along >those lines. I don’t remember the author’s name.

Yes this was written by an American lady who basically spent a couple of years watching and fillowing her 2 dogs around. it was well written but really only reiterated behavioural reseach readily available. I can not remember her name either. `SEIZE THE DAY’ ***TRUSTING LITTLE TO TOMORROW***  THE BOOKMARK BOOK SHOP (WE ARE ONLY SMALL BUT WE  DO OUR BEST FOR YOU)http://www.ami.com.au/~pat/bookstor.htm

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Hi all, A few years ago I remember reading of a book whose title was "The secret life of dogs" or "The secret lives of dogs" or something along those lines. I don’t remember the author’s name. I’ve done a search of amazon.com on "secret" and "dog" and came up with only six titles, none of which is what I’m looking for. Am I mistaken? Is there really such a book? Is it out of print? Thanks in advance for your help. BTW: If there is such a book, what’s the group’s opinion of it? Bob Hi Bob, The book you are looking for is " The Hidden Life of Dogs" by Elizabeth Marshall Thomas. From what I recall, the group trashed the book. The author appeared to be quite irresponsible with her dogs. Allowing the males to roam and allowing litters of puppies to be killed in her home. If you "ignore" her irresposible actions..the animal behaviour parts are rather interesting. You might do a DEJA NEWS search for the book title and see what comes up in the archives. There was alot of talk about the book about a year ago, I think. Cheers. — C.Jackson R.N. and The Cocker Crew: Max, Demi and the 5 puppies. Dakkov’s Black Maui Gold (Maui) Dakkov’s Hula Kahiko (Kiko) Dakkov’s Royal Hawaiian Prince (Harry) Dakkov’s Haleakala on Maui (Kala) Dakkov’s Queen Emma (Emma) See the puppies at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Estates/8806/ cjacksonATaxionetDOTcom http://www.acmepet.com "Trying to attain vast power and world domination again? BAD DOG!"

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The part that really amazed me was when the pack dig a large cave in her back yard and she didn’t even notice the digging or dirt! She finally found the cave after she wondered where the dogs kept disappearing. One of the saddest parts was her allowing the alpha bitch to kill other bitches pups. — Shirley Deer Ridge > BTW: If there is such a book, what’s the group’s opinion of it?

– Shirley Deer Ridge – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The part that really amazed me was when the pack dig a large cave in her back >yard and she didn’t even notice the digging or dirt! She finally found the cave >after she wondered where the dogs kept disappearing. One of the saddest parts >was her allowing the alpha bitch to kill other bitches pups. >– >Shirley >Deer Ridge >> BTW: If there is such a book, what’s the group’s opinion of it? >Well, you asked, so I’ll tell you- >  There is a book, The secret life of Dogs, by Elizabeth >somethingorother. >   I think that it is a treatise to irresponsible dog ownership.  She >touts it as a study in dog behavior (as a scientist, I take great >offence to her bandying about the word *study*), but what it really is >is a step by step study in how to 1) get your dog killed (letting them >wander the steets all night) 2) have your dog produce more puppies >without health/temperament etc. checks. (there are a few odd litters >created in this book).  She also frowns upon dog training, believing >that it is detrimental to the dogs "nature"- Hey Lady- they’re >DOMESTICATED! >   When the book came out, I thought it might be a real study of the >domestic dog.  It was twaddle.  After reading it, I was extremely >dissapointed that it became such a "best-seller", and consequently, a >role for others to follow:  Let’s all have puppies and see what happens! >  If you want to read some good dog behavior studies (I am a wildlife >biologist/wild animal behaviorist), I suggest the work of Dr. Marc >Bekoff.  I can send you (or post) some citations if you like.  Please- >do not put more money in her coffers- If you wish to read it- check it >out at the library, but don’t buy it. >  That’s just my opinion, but opinions are what you asked for…. >Saxon

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Secret Life of Dogs — Elizabeth Marshall Writes wonderful novels, is dreadfully irresponsible about dogs. Masson — squishy thinking, but interesting. Jane Webb M&M (how come you never talk to US so briefly?)

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The part that really amazed me was when the pack dig a large cave in her back yard and she didn’t even notice the digging or dirt! She finally found the cave after she wondered where the dogs kept disappearing. One of the saddest parts was her allowing the alpha bitch to kill other bitches pups. — Shirley Deer Ridge – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BTW: If there is such a book, what’s the group’s opinion of it? >Well, you asked, so I’ll tell you- >  There is a book, The secret life of Dogs, by Elizabeth >somethingorother. >   I think that it is a treatise to irresponsible dog ownership.  She >touts it as a study in dog behavior (as a scientist, I take great >offence to her bandying about the word *study*), but what it really is >is a step by step study in how to 1) get your dog killed (letting them >wander the steets all night) 2) have your dog produce more puppies >without health/temperament etc. checks. (there are a few odd litters >created in this book).  She also frowns upon dog training, believing >that it is detrimental to the dogs "nature"- Hey Lady- they’re >DOMESTICATED! >   When the book came out, I thought it might be a real study of the >domestic dog.  It was twaddle.  After reading it, I was extremely >dissapointed that it became such a "best-seller", and consequently, a >role for others to follow:  Let’s all have puppies and see what happens! >  If you want to read some good dog behavior studies (I am a wildlife >biologist/wild animal behaviorist), I suggest the work of Dr. Marc >Bekoff.  I can send you (or post) some citations if you like.  Please- >do not put more money in her coffers- If you wish to read it- check it >out at the library, but don’t buy it. >  That’s just my opinion, but opinions are what you asked for…. >Saxon

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LS> LS> >The Hidden Life of Dogs by Elizbeth Marshall Thomas.  Emotional with an LS> >idealized romantic view of dogs; decidedly unscientific but presented as LS> >though it was a scientific work.  My greatest fear is that people will put LS> >their dogs at risk, *believing that her views have some sort of LS> >"authority" and that they are doing right by dogs to do so. LS> > LS> >Diane Blackman Yes, Thomas is a cultural anthropologist.  As a social psychologist, who has taught anthropology at university, I can tell you that most anthropologists and sociologists who read the book did not like it, because it is a poor study.  For your information, the essential fieldwork method in anthropology is what is called participant observation (combined with a hell of a lot of interviewing), not making assumptions such as Thomas did. Even more to the point, the one absolute commandment is that the anthropologist should do her or his damnedest to avoid endangering the informants–and Thomas certainly did not remember that.  It is a shame Margaret Mead was dead by the time Thomas’s book came out; I’d have love to hear MM tear it apart. avrama & shomer LS> LS> If I remember correctly from a review, she was a professional LS> anthropologist.  After reading a bit of the book, I remember thinking LS> that it read very much like an anthropological study.  As LS> anthropologists are somewhat prone to do, she wrote an outsiders’ LS> idealized romanticized view of a culture.  In human cultures there can LS> be a fine line in romanticizing/idealizing a culture and in presenting LS> a balanced viewpoint.  This is not the correct, I believe, way to look LS> at a rural/suburban/urban dog pack.  It does however offer an LS> interesting insite into anthropologists. LS> LS> LS> Dog FAQs: LS> http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/ LS>                             .. nfx v2.7 [C0000] Lasciate ogni speranza voi ch’entrate!                  

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> BTW: If there is such a book, what’s the group’s opinion of it?

Well, you asked, so I’ll tell you-   There is a book, The secret life of Dogs, by Elizabeth somethingorother.    I think that it is a treatise to irresponsible dog ownership.  She touts it as a study in dog behavior (as a scientist, I take great offence to her bandying about the word *study*), but what it really is is a step by step study in how to 1) get your dog killed (letting them wander the steets all night) 2) have your dog produce more puppies without health/temperament etc. checks. (there are a few odd litters created in this book).  She also frowns upon dog training, believing that it is detrimental to the dogs "nature"- Hey Lady- they’re DOMESTICATED!    When the book came out, I thought it might be a real study of the domestic dog.  It was twaddle.  After reading it, I was extremely dissapointed that it became such a "best-seller", and consequently, a role for others to follow:  Let’s all have puppies and see what happens!   If you want to read some good dog behavior studies (I am a wildlife biologist/wild animal behaviorist), I suggest the work of Dr. Marc Bekoff.  I can send you (or post) some citations if you like.  Please- do not put more money in her coffers- If you wish to read it- check it out at the library, but don’t buy it.   That’s just my opinion, but opinions are what you asked for…. Saxon

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check the used book site at www.abebooks.com – great search engine to view all kinds of used book stores all over you could try barnesandnoble.com too – I swear I saw this book last time I was in the real store on the bargain books table also it was a best seller so the local library may still have it too Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->if you do a dejanews search on The Hidden Life of Dogs you will find > a LOT > THANK YOU! >of opinions on this book out there. I read it and met the author and >despite some folks ideas on the book I know that the book was written > from >notes taken when the lady was in college (a long time ago) and only > lately >developed into a book. This little old lady adores her current farm > dogs >and also loved the dogs she observed back when she was a college > student >and the book shows that. As to her conclusions based on her > observations – >well a lot of us disagree with them > The lady’s name is Elizabeth Marshall Thomas. > Still can’t find the book at amazon.com however. It must be out of > print. > Bob >  – > To reply via e-mail dot the dash in doruk-net.

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>The Hidden Life of Dogs by Elizbeth Marshall Thomas.  Emotional with an >idealized romantic view of dogs; decidedly unscientific but presented as >though it was a scientific work.  My greatest fear is that people will put >their dogs at risk, *believing that her views have some sort of >"authority" and that they are doing right by dogs to do so. >Diane Blackman

If I remember correctly from a review, she was a professional anthropologist.  After reading a bit of the book, I remember thinking that it read very much like an anthropological study.  As anthropologists are somewhat prone to do, she wrote an outsiders’ idealized romanticized view of a culture.  In human cultures there can be a fine line in romanticizing/idealizing a culture and in presenting a balanced viewpoint.  This is not the correct, I believe, way to look at a rural/suburban/urban dog pack.  It does however offer an interesting insite into anthropologists. Dog FAQs: http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/

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The Hidden Life of Dogs by Elizbeth Marshall Thomas.  Emotional with an idealized romantic view of dogs; decidedly unscientific but presented as though it was a scientific work.  My greatest fear is that people will put their dogs at risk, *believing that her views have some sort of "authority" and that they are doing right by dogs to do so. Diane Blackman Play is necessary to the fullest development of any intelligent being. http://www.dog-play.com/

: A few years ago I remember reading of a book whose title was "The : secret life of dogs" or "The secret lives of dogs" or something along : those lines. I don’t remember the author’s name. : I’ve done a search of amazon.com on "secret" and "dog" and came up : with only six titles, none of which is what I’m looking for. : Am I mistaken? Is there really such a book? Is it out of print?

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>if you do a dejanews search on The Hidden Life of Dogs you will find

a LOT THANK YOU! >of opinions on this book out there. I read it and met the author and >despite some folks ideas on the book I know that the book was written from >notes taken when the lady was in college (a long time ago) and only lately >developed into a book. This little old lady adores her current farm dogs >and also loved the dogs she observed back when she was a college student >and the book shows that. As to her conclusions based on her observations – >well a lot of us disagree with them

The lady’s name is Elizabeth Marshall Thomas. Still can’t find the book at amazon.com however. It must be out of print. Bob  – To reply via e-mail dot the dash in doruk-net.

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PS – there was also a book like it for CATS, if that helps you locate it… MOUSE

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Hi! I do also remember reading that title…I know the author’s first name is Helen and her last name is either Thomas or Marshall.  Anyways, the book caused a little bit of controversy at the time in dog circles because she let her dogs run loose in order to develop the book. I just finished reading a fantastic and well researched book (in my opinion, much better than the other) called "Dogs Never Lie About Love:  Reflections on the Emotional World of Dogs" by Jeffrey M. Masson.  I highly recommend it! Debbie

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if you do a dejanews search on The Hidden Life of Dogs you will find a LOT of opinions on this book out there. I read it and met the author and despite some folks ideas on the book I know that the book was written from notes taken when the lady was in college (a long time ago) and only lately developed into a book. This little old lady adores her current farm dogs and also loved the dogs she observed back when she was a college student and the book shows that. As to her conclusions based on her observations – well a lot of us disagree with them Nancy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, > A few years ago I remember reading of a book whose title was "The > secret life of dogs" or "The secret lives of dogs" or something along > those lines. I don’t remember the author’s name. > I’ve done a search of amazon.com on "secret" and "dog" and came up > with only six titles, none of which is what I’m looking for. > Am I mistaken? Is there really such a book? Is it out of print? > Thanks in advance for your help. > BTW: If there is such a book, what’s the group’s opinion of it? > Bob > — > To reply via e-mail dot the dash in doruk-net.

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I remember the book you are talking about, but don’t remember the author. Did you try your local bookstore?  The major ones have access to the Books in Print database, and should be able to find it for you. MOUSE

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Hi all, A few years ago I remember reading of a book whose title was "The secret life of dogs" or "The secret lives of dogs" or something along those lines. I don’t remember the author’s name. I’ve done a search of amazon.com on "secret" and "dog" and came up with only six titles, none of which is what I’m looking for. Am I mistaken? Is there really such a book? Is it out of print? Thanks in advance for your help. BTW: If there is such a book, what’s the group’s opinion of it? Bob — To reply via e-mail dot the dash in doruk-net.

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