Question:

Hello john, Better get out the Preparation H… Pull up a doughnut, and sit down carefully… This isn’t going to be pleasant… > Jerry writes: > :What makes you think that being an > :abusive pig is going to do anything other > :than eliminate dogs, because shitbirds > :like you, push dogs around till they get > :vicious, and then say they are incorrigible? > Jerry, you are the most ignorant person > on this newsgroup.

Thanks, john. I’m simply a poor, uneducated, shitkicking dog trainer. > Not only do you have > no idea what constitutes abuse, you have > no idea what causes dogs to become > vicious and/or otherwise incorrigible.

This has been my career for three dozen years. I specialize in problem dog behavior. That’s all I do, that and protection dog training. You are one of the incompetents that I have been trying to EXPOSE here for nine months. Judging by the fan mail, I’m not doing badly… Wouldn’t you agree? > GENUINE abuse will tend to make dogs > fearful, not vicious.

Ever read White Fang? > But fearful dogs > are not inherently incorrigible.

Not unless morons like YOU abuse them. > Sometimes > they are.

Only if YOU don’t know what YOU are doing. I specialize in that kind of work, THAT’S MY JOB>>> > Often they are not, and can > be brought around slowly but surely > with lots of structure and reassurance.

I’m not interested in your double talk. You are full of shit. The gig is up. Training can rehabilitate most dogs faster than you ever dreamed possible. The problem is, you don’t know enough about appropriate training methods. Period. > There are lots of ways that a dog might > become excessively aggressive. But > generally – and YOU really ought to under- > stand this, Mr Positive – they get that > way because it has WORKED for them.

And YOU return the same, further reinforcing the problem, because YOU don’t know any better. Ever hear of allelomimetic behavior? Despite the FAILURES, YOU continue to do the same, because it WORKED for YOU a few times. I can’t play with odds like those…  dog’s lives are at stake. That’s why I handle and train DIFFERENTLY than YOU people do, because I will not give up and kill dogs because I do not have the KNOWLEDGE< and  >ABILITY,  to rehabilitate them. That’s my job, and I guarantee every dog I train, and I don’t ever write them off, or ever turn away a student.. My livelihood depends on it. I don’t play games with dogs lives, john. Why do you? > Yes, there is usually some underlying > genetic predisposition that causes their > initial forays into aggressive behavior.

No, that is part of the BIG LIE. It is usually due to contact with aggressive, abusive, morons like yourself, PEOPLE THAT DO NOT KNOW ANY BETTER… YOU people like to blame the breeding, when YOU get stuck with a dog that is too tough to train. It’s easier to just kill it, and say there are other, more worthy dogs to "invest" YOUR time with… YOU are doing everyone a terrible disservice. YOU and YOUR kind, are RESPONSIBLE… Lyingdogdirt likes to call that "idiopathic rage." All that double talk means, is, that the viciousness was caused as a direct result of the TRAINING, john. The kind of force training YOU endorse. The kind of force training that is responsible for the NEEDLESS DEATHS OF MILLIONS OF DOGS EVERY YEAR. The dogs YOU write off, John. The dogs Janet writes off. The dogs Cindy writes off. Those are the kinds of dogs I work with, and send home REHABILITATED, WITHOUT EVER CHOKING, SHOCKING, or HANGING them first, john. > But it’s generally only when the genetic > predisposition is reinforced through the > dog getting what it wants through aggression > that aggression becomes severe and chronic.

YOU don’t know what YOU are talking about. Either that, or you are lying, and I don’t think you are, because YOU are simply not experienced enough to NEED to lie, like some of the others here, that do so to ONLY to protect themselves from being EXPOSED, by my valid and truthful accusations. Did you get that information out of Koehler’s book? I’ll bet you did. That’s all part of the BIG LIE! What the hell do you expect, that Koehler is going to say, "follow my method, it’s going to fail at least 10% of the time??? Hang the dog as a last resort, and if that don’t work, just blame the genetics??? Get a new dog, and start all over again? You’ve got an excellent chance the the second dog you try it on will not fall into that ten percentile DEATH RATE?" Those are the facts of life, john. That’s what it says in the book… What the hell makes YOU think YOU have the right to carry on like that??? > And this usually happens either because > people directly encourage it (amateur > guard dog training stuff) OR because people > are wimpy and give in too much.

NOW, that’s the point. YOU are perpetrating a disgusting, toxic methodology, that ends dog’s lives. Period. And, YOU and the OTHERS recommend it here for one and all.  If Koehler can’t blame genetics, he’ll blame the handler for not following his advice, and blame the handler for failing to choke the dog severely enough. Isn’t that the TRUTH, john? If it isn’t, tell me what has changed in the last three dozen years that I’ve known these things? Nothing’s changed in three dozen years, John. Dogs are killed as a DIRECT RESULT of the methods you accept and endorse for "TRAINING" them. > You are a genuinely ignorant person, Jerry.

I’ve been pretty successful for three dozen years, john. YOU lack experience and knowledge. You got some strong supporters here, and I’M exposing THEM, as being ignorant, abusive morons AND FRAUDS. That’s what all the fuss is about, isn’t it, john? > There are some people around here who > seem to think you have some sort of insight > to offer, and your main problem is in > presentation. They’re wrong.

There you have a valid point. Except for the more than half dozen competent, full time, professional trainers, who all use somewhat different methods that all agree with me, I am presenting INFORMATION to people that do not have the insight or intellect to be able to understand or appreciate what I am telling them… because THEY lack common sense, human decency, and THEY are stupid enough to listen to these abusive morons, who will do ANYTHING to get out of the problems they have CAUSED as a RESULT of their ineffective, inappropriate, inhumane, indecent, corrupt, training methods, and perpetuate the BIG LIE.. YOU have been indoctrinated to the Koehler way of thinking, that endorses increasing incrementally, violence, to force control of behavior. The FINAL result is at least, A10% DEATH RATE. > You have a deep > and fundamental ignorance problem, Jerry, > that all the rest of your problems stem > from.

Yes, I’m talking to people like you, lyinglynn, frantik fraud die, lyingdogdirt, and the chumps here that endorse violence and end up blaming THEIR FAILURE on the dog’s breeding, or the handler not being VIOLENT ENOUGH, and therefore, THEY justify KILLING DOGS, as being incorrigible. What is supposed to be the point of TRAINING? > JohnR > Pit Bull Libertarian > Never sneer at the power of a little > pink squeaky toy!

INFORMATION IS POWER.  Little pink squeaky toys are little pink squeaky toys, and a cigar is a cigar. It all depends on Howe it is being used. DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS… J>>> "CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw. "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."                                              Leo Tolstoy Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:                                             caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.                       -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after. Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all.                      -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding.                   -Jerry Howe-

Response:

Apparently Annie my Dobie and I haven’t yet gotten to the part of Koehler where she turns vicious. — Ron Hardin On the internet, nobody knows you’re a jerk.

Response:

> Apparently Annie my Dobie and I haven’t yet gotten to the part of Koehler > where she turns vicious. > — > Ron Hardin > On the internet, nobody knows you’re a jerk.

Stick with it. You’ve got plenty of time. And, even on the net, everybody knows you are a jerk. DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS… J>>> "CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw. "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."                                              Leo Tolstoy Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:                                             caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.                       -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after.  Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all.                      -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding.                   -Jerry Howe-

Response:

> This has been my career for three dozen years. I specialize in > problem dog behavior. That’s all I do, that and protection dog > training. You are one of the incompetents that I have been > trying to EXPOSE here for nine months. Judging by the fan > mail, I’m not doing badly… Wouldn’t you agree?

Jerry – please, if there are people that need exposing John is not one of them.  You have not seen him work with dogs.  I have.  So consider this to be expert testimony – With every dog I have seen him work with whether a shelter dog, my dogs, or his own he is extremely gentle, respectful and goes out of his way to do whatever he can to build their self confidence.  I have yet to met anyone who uses so much praise in working with them.  In fact, he has on several occasions gone out of his way to point it out to other people whenever he thought they were not using enough praise when working with their dogs (which my boyfriend has a tendency to do). So, what is it that you would like to EXPOSE about John?  That he uses too much praise in his work with dogs? > GENUINE abuse will tend to make dogs > fearful, not vicious.

*As an aside to get off topic for a moment – fearful dogs can display those behaviors commonly referred to as vicious.* > But fearful dogs > are not inherently incorrigible. > Not unless morons like YOU abuse them.

Jerry, if John is a moron that abuses dogs, then why is he always the one rescue volunteer at the shelter where he works, fighting to save the lives of many of dogs considered by other as hopeless euthanasia cases. He fights tooth and nail for every single dog in that place.  And he is able to work with the dogs that no one else can because of the so called "positive" methods he uses. > Sometimes > they are. > Only if YOU don’t know what YOU are doing. I specialize in > that kind of work, THAT’S MY JOB>>>

Jerry I am glad there are others out there who are willing and able to work with these dogs.  If you spent the time at the shelter with one of these dogs, that you spent on this post that would be one more dog that could possibly be saved.  Whereas, with this post you are accusing the wrong man (so there goes a waste of your talents and the life of another dog). > I can’t play with odds like those…  dog’s lives are at > stake.

Then go to the shelter or wherever it is that you work with these dogs whose lives are at stake instead of writing this post.  It’s a waste of your valuable time.  Its time better spent in helping a dog. And I’m not being fetitious here.  There are millions of dogs who are given up as hopeless every year.  Many dogs are euthanized for even the slightest show of teeth, initial display of growling, etc. that could be cured in two hours of time with the dog.  There are not many people out there willing and able to work with these dogs.  So, please for their sake spend the time you spend here insulting the wrong people at a shelter.  In fact, I should take my own advice.  O.K. everyone you’ll soon see less of me (if anyone will really notice) as I am going to spend more time at the shelters and less on this newsgroup.  Bye. — Adrienne Gremlin, Bruno, Lewis, Yoko, Freneau John Muir, "Stickeen: The Story of a Dog" http://www.sierraclub.org/john_muir_exhibit/writings/stickeen/the_sto… (In memory of Pepe, Pepper, Cinder, Rascal, Tucker, Max and Puppy)

Response:

> No, that is part of the BIG LIE. It is usually due to contact > with aggressive, abusive, morons like yourself, PEOPLE THAT DO > NOT KNOW ANY BETTER…

    Funny innit….that Jer proclaims everyone here who does not agree with his ideas, abusive pigs.     Now, raise of hands….how many ppl here have had their own dogs, that they themselves have trained, in this alleged manner bite, nip, growl, snarl, etc. at them in the past few weeks?     Rudy is licking my face, Ceilidh is sleeping on the couch, and Zack has a new woobie he keeps stuffing into our hands. (First woobie of his life, won’t let it go. <BG>) How bout all those other nasty dogs, that we’ve been abusing? MB

Response:

>Apparently Annie my Dobie and I haven’t yet gotten to the part of Koehler >where she turns vicious.

You obviously haven’t gotten to the good part yet.  Howe about if she chews up your shoes? "First you must determine that the dog has no mineral deficiencies that would drive it to such destuctive chewing. The humaneness and common sense of assuring that a dog has no mineral deficiencies before punishing him for acts that could be caused by such shortages needs no further justification. When this consideration has been met, you can use the following corrective techniques without inhibition. Rather than waste time on discussions of such maneuvers as pointing to the damage a dog has done and saying, "No-no-naughty-naughty," tying the damaged article to his neck, or going through calisthenics with a folded newspaper to the rhythm of "Shame-shame-shame," let’s start out with some methods that the record shows are a bit more effective. So that you might better understand the aversion, and even revulsion, caused by the first correction we’ll discuss, try the following experiment. Select a food that you like exceptionally well, cram your mouth full of it, and hold it there for awhile without chewing. In a surprisingly short time, you will experience a gagging sensation and will want to empty your mouth-not by swallowing, either. This gagging sensation in association with the taste causes a revulsion. This same principle can be used to discourage your dog from destructive chewing. The specific technique is to select a piece of the material he has chewed (you needn’t catch him in the act) and place it well back, crossways, in his mouth. Use a strip of adhesive tape to wrap the muzzle securely in front of the chewed material, so that no amount of gagging and clawing can force it from his mouth. Perhaps you are wondering if these frantic efforts to rid himself of the material will cause the dog to scratch himself painfully. Yup. They surely will. And the person who earned the money that bought the ruined shoe or the long-awaited piece of furniture, now badly mauled, probably experienced a bit of pain when he surveyed the damage. And if your doggie "didn’t know any better," he’ll know better after an hour or so of his mouth burden. When, after a long time, the tape is finally removed from his mouth (a bit of ether will remove it easily) you may find he seems to hate the sight of the object. Don’t be fooled into thinking he’s cured. His recent experience may be just a temporary influence. You want a perma-nent impression. You can work toward that permanent impression by repeating the "taping in" process the next day, even if he hasn’t chewed anything in the meantime. Naturally, if he does chew before the next day, you should immediately tape the last-chewed object in his mouth. Surveys made in obedience classes to check the effectiveness of this revulsion method show that if the handler will follow through with the tapinging for at least six days after the dog has apparently stopped chewing, 80 percent of these destructive chewers can be reformed. Don’t take a couple of days without a chewing episode as a sign that your dog doesn’t need the clincher of the full six follow-up days. The stronger the "bad taste" you leave in his mouth, the more chance of a permanent Impression. Before you tell me your dog chews on something that couldn’t be taped in his mouth, consider this example. If he chews on the corner of a house, and his chewing doesn’t produce a splinter big enough to place in his mouth, stick a few strips of cheese boxes or light crating in those spots where he is most likely to chew. Once stuck in place with tape or a bit of glue, the boards become an inviting part of the building. It will be a "part" you can handle. With ingenuity, you can attach a convenient "part" of suitable material to anything from a sofa to a barn. Be sure any object you might tape in his mouth is too big for him to swallow. If he chews on an object too small to meet this precaution, provide a sufficiently large object, similarly shaped and of the same kind of material, for his sampling and correction. For that 20 percent of the dogs that seem to feel neither revulsion nor repentance from the "taping in" but continue to destroy valuable property, more drastic measures must be taken. A wire from a shocking device (such as was previously described) can be brought into contact with the chewed object while it is in the dog’s mouth. If the material is a nonconductor, it will have to be dampened so the dog will feel the tingle. It is only in extreme cases where the dog must quit chewing "or else" that this traumatic method is recommended. There are some dogs so destructive that no person could afford to keep them. Yet it is cruel to have them destroyed if a drastic correction can end the chewing problem. If your dog is one who picks his "chewables" from the clothesline, your job is easy. Hang some damp clothing from a bare wire that is insulated at both ends. Connect the charged wire from a fence unit to the clothes wire, and hang some damp laundry at an inviting length. Turn on the fence unit and get out of sight so your dog will feel free to chew. In all situations where the dog is punished, it is better to take the dog into the area where he chewed than to bring the object to him. After all, in addition to not chewing, you probably want him to stay away from the laundry, bush, or other chewed object, so let his discomfort be in those areas. When it seems like a difficult job to stop his chewing, remember that no one else can afford to keep a chewer either, so you can’t write off your obligation with "free to good home." "The Koehler Method of Dog Training" , Howell Book House, 1996

Response:

>   Now, raise of hands….how many ppl here have had their own dogs, that >they themselves have trained, in this alleged manner bite, nip, growl, >snarl, etc. at them in the past few weeks? >    Rudy is licking my face, Ceilidh is sleeping on the couch, and Zack has >a new woobie he keeps stuffing into our hands. (First woobie of his life, >won’t let it go. <BG>) How bout all those other nasty dogs, that we’ve been >abusing? >MB

Past week?  How about past lifetime?  Answer is the same – NOPE.   Janet Boss Best Friends Dog Obedience "Nice Manners for the Family Pet" "Second-hand dogs AREN’T second-rate" Filtered Bliss – AHH……

Response:

Hello adrienne, I don’t want to seem disrespectful… > This has been my career for three dozen years. I specialize in > problem dog behavior. That’s all I do, that and protection dog > training. You are one of the incompetents that I have been > trying to EXPOSE here for nine months. Judging by the fan > mail, I’m not doing badly… Wouldn’t you agree? > Jerry – please, if there are people that need exposing John is not one > of them.  You have not seen him work with dogs.  I have.  So consider > this to be expert testimony –

but, you’ve got your hands full with your own problem dogs, that YOU are STILL having difficulty with, because YOU are STILL mishandling them.. One of us is wrong. I suggest you consider MY assessment of MY FULL TIME CAREER business, to be expert testimony, as have Superior Courts for Criminal Justice, accepted my sworn testimony.. > With every dog I have seen him work with whether a shelter dog, my dogs, > or his own he is extremely gentle, respectful and goes out of his way to > do whatever he can to build their self confidence.

Wonderful. So where does he screw up? Try starting to figure that out from the same point that you are having difficulty with your own dogs. Basic handling, rather basic MIShandling… > I have yet to met > anyone who uses so much praise in working with them.

That doesn’t count if there is ANY contact on the collar, ANY pulling, ANY corrections. It only takes ONCE, to screw up hours of progress. >  In fact, he has on > several occasions gone out of his way to point it out to other people > whenever he thought they were not using enough praise when working with > their dogs (which my boyfriend has a tendency to do).

As I said, it doesn’t matter, if you are mishandling the lead, AT ALL. > So, what is it that you would like to EXPOSE about John?  That he uses > too much praise in his work with dogs?

That HE doesn’t know what the hell he is doing, for starters. Look at his posts. > > GENUINE abuse will tend to make dogs > > fearful, not vicious. > *As an aside to get off topic for a moment – fearful dogs can display > those behaviors commonly referred to as vicious.*

That’s my job, what of it? > > But fearful dogs > > are not inherently incorrigible. > Not unless morons like YOU abuse them. > Jerry, if John is a moron that abuses dogs, then why is he always the > one rescue volunteer at the shelter where he works, fighting to save the > lives of many of dogs considered by other as hopeless euthanasia cases.

That does not make his approach, and knowledge about training, COMPETENT! He doesn’t know enough about training, it’s that simple. Like many of the other posters here, they SIMPLY LACK KNOWLEDGE, INFORMATION, and EXPERIENCE. > He fights tooth and nail for every single dog in that place.

I’m sure he does. And, he probably loses MOST of the time. > And he is > able to work with the dogs that no one else can because of the so called > "positive" methods he uses.

I’m not impressed. He shows me a tremendous inability and LACK of KNOWLEDGE. > > Sometimes > > they are. > Only if YOU don’t know what YOU are doing. I specialize in > that kind of work, THAT’S MY JOB>>> > Jerry I am glad there are others out there who are willing and able to > work with these dogs.  If you spent the time at the shelter with one of > these dogs, that you spent on this post that would be one more dog that > could possibly be saved.

I’m not doing that these days. I’m addressing MANY from HERE> > Whereas, with this post you are accusing the > wrong man (so there goes a waste of your talents and the life of another > dog).

You can let me suffer my own guilt, I have none. I’ve got three dozen years cleaning up the mess the people here create and THEY CONTINUE TO FIGHT to preserve their alleged right to continue to abuse dogs, and call it training, and then blame the genetics when they screw it up, and hang the dog, and then kill him. That is a DIRECT RESULT of Koehler’s vicious methods. The same methods your chump chum john uses. > I can’t play with odds like those…  dog’s lives are at > stake. > Then go to the shelter or wherever it is that you work with these dogs > whose lives are at stake instead of writing this post.  It’s a waste of > your valuable time.  Its time better spent in helping a dog.

What are you afraid of, me criticizing a few morons here, or getting EVERYBODY here to understand that they are using IRRESPONSIBLE  "training" methods? > And I’m not being fetitious here.  There are millions of dogs who are > given up as hopeless every year.

I’ve got my share of them right here. > Many dogs are euthanized for even the > slightest show of teeth, initial display of growling, etc. that could be > cured in two hours of time with the dog.  There are not many people out > there willing and able to work with these dogs.

That’s why I’m here, why are you here? Are you trying to learn, or keep the status quo? > So, please for their > sake spend the time you spend here insulting the wrong people at a > shelter.

I’ve got HUNDREDS of shelter people that I can reach FROM RIGHT HERE. > In fact, I should take my own advice.  O.K. everyone you’ll > soon see less of me (if anyone will really notice) as I am going to > spend more time at the shelters and less on this newsgroup.  Bye.

Don’t go away so fast… YOU’VE still got a LOT to LEARN. > — > Adrienne > Gremlin, Bruno, Lewis, Yoko, Freneau

DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS… J>>> "CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw. "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."                                              Leo Tolstoy Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:                                             caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.                       -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after.  Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all.                      -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding.                   -Jerry Howe-

Response:

> >Apparently Annie my Dobie and I haven’t yet gotten to the part of > Koehler >where she turns vicious. > You obviously haven’t gotten to the good part yet.  Howe about if she > chews up your shoes?

I gather we all agree then (“obviously”), that the about-face heel correction, the sit correction, the down correction, the stand correction, and the come correction, all don’t turn the dog vicious.  Yet that was what Jerry wailing about. — Ron Hardin On the internet, nobody knows you’re a jerk.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> No, that is part of the BIG LIE. It is usually due to contact > with aggressive, abusive, morons like yourself, PEOPLE THAT DO > NOT KNOW ANY BETTER… >     Funny innit….that Jer proclaims everyone here who does not agree with > his ideas, abusive pigs. >     Now, raise of hands….how many ppl here have had their own dogs, that > they themselves have trained, in this alleged manner bite, nip, growl, > snarl, etc. at them in the past few weeks? >     Rudy is licking my face, Ceilidh is sleeping on the couch, and Zack has > a new woobie he keeps stuffing into our hands. (First woobie of his life, > won’t let it go. <BG>) How bout all those other nasty dogs, that we’ve been > abusing? > MB

You want to gambol with the percentages?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Apparently Annie my Dobie and I haven’t yet gotten to the part of > Koehler >where she turns vicious. > You obviously haven’t gotten to the good part yet.  Howe about if she > chews up your shoes? > "First you must determine that the dog has no mineral deficiencies > that would drive it to such destuctive chewing. > The humaneness and common sense of assuring that a dog has no mineral > deficiencies before punishing him for acts that could be caused by > such shortages needs no further justification. When this consideration > has been met, you can use the following corrective techniques without > inhibition. > Rather than waste time on discussions of such maneuvers as pointing to > the damage a dog has done and saying, "No-no-naughty-naughty," tying > the damaged article to his neck, or going through calisthenics with a > folded newspaper to the rhythm of "Shame-shame-shame," let’s start out > with some methods that the record shows are a bit more effective. So > that you might better understand the aversion, and even revulsion, > caused by the first correction we’ll discuss, try the following > experiment. > Select a food that you like exceptionally well, cram your mouth full > of it, and hold it there for awhile without chewing. In a surprisingly > short time, you will experience a gagging sensation and will want to > empty your mouth-not by swallowing, either. This gagging sensation in > association with the taste causes a revulsion. This same principle can > be used to discourage your dog from destructive chewing. > The specific technique is to select a piece of the material he has > chewed (you needn’t catch him in the act) and place it well back, > crossways, in his mouth. Use a strip of adhesive tape to wrap the > muzzle securely in front of the chewed material, so that no amount of > gagging and clawing can force it from his mouth. > Perhaps you are wondering if these frantic efforts to rid himself of > the material will cause the dog to scratch himself painfully. Yup. > They surely will. And the person who earned the money that bought the > ruined shoe or the long-awaited piece of furniture, now badly mauled, > probably experienced a bit of pain when he surveyed the damage. > And if your doggie "didn’t know any better," he’ll know better after > an hour or so of his mouth burden. When, after a long time, the tape > is finally removed from his mouth (a bit of ether will remove it > easily) you may find he seems to hate the sight of the object. Don’t > be fooled into thinking he’s cured. His recent experience may be just > a temporary influence. You want a perma-nent impression. You can work > toward that permanent impression by repeating the "taping in" process > the next day, even if he hasn’t chewed anything in the meantime. > Naturally, if he does chew before the next day, you should immediately > tape the last-chewed object in his mouth. > Surveys made in obedience classes to check the effectiveness of this > revulsion method show that if the handler will follow through with the > tapinging for at least six days after the dog has apparently stopped > chewing, 80 percent of these destructive chewers can be reformed. > Don’t take a couple of days without a chewing episode as a sign that > your dog doesn’t need the clincher of the full six follow-up days. The > stronger the "bad taste" you leave in his mouth, the more chance of a > permanent Impression. > Before you tell me your dog chews on something that couldn’t be taped > in his mouth, consider this example. If he chews on the corner of a > house, and his chewing doesn’t produce a splinter big enough to place > in his mouth, stick a few strips of cheese boxes or light crating in > those spots where he is most likely to chew. Once stuck in place with > tape or a bit of glue, the boards become an inviting part of the > building. It will be a "part" you can handle. With ingenuity, you can > attach a convenient "part" of suitable material to anything from a > sofa to a barn. Be sure any object you might tape in his mouth is too > big for him to swallow. If he chews on an object too small to meet > this precaution, provide a sufficiently large object, similarly shaped > and of the same kind of material, for his sampling and correction. > For that 20 percent of the dogs that seem to feel neither revulsion > nor repentance from the "taping in" but continue to destroy valuable > property, more drastic measures must be taken. A wire from a shocking > device (such as was previously described) can be brought into contact > with the chewed object while it is in the dog’s mouth. If the material > is a nonconductor, it will have to be dampened so the dog will feel > the tingle. It is only in extreme cases where the dog must quit > chewing "or else" that this traumatic method is recommended. There are > some dogs so destructive that no person could afford to keep them. Yet > it is cruel to have them destroyed if a drastic correction can end the > chewing problem. > If your dog is one who picks his "chewables" from the clothesline, > your job is easy. Hang some damp clothing from a bare wire that is > insulated at both ends. Connect the charged wire from a fence unit to > the clothes wire, and hang some damp laundry at an inviting length. > Turn on the fence unit and get out of sight so your dog will feel free > to chew. > In all situations where the dog is punished, it is better to take the > dog into the area where he chewed than to bring the object to him. > After all, in addition to not chewing, you probably want him to stay > away from the laundry, bush, or other chewed object, so let his > discomfort be in those areas. When it seems like a difficult job to > stop his chewing, remember that no one else can afford to keep a > chewer either, so you can’t write off your obligation with "free to > good home." > "The Koehler Method of Dog Training" , Howell Book House, 1996

Hello Anonymous, You could be Dogman, for all I know. But that doesn’t matter. The information you’ve presented is in the book by the Master, Koehler… That is the SAME book that many of the rpdb regulars use and recommend here, with confidence. Ludwig, our intellectual from the UK swears by it, as do lyinglynn, fraud die, and most of the gang of thugs here. It does make more sense than evolving. Carry on! Jerry.

Response:

> You want to gambol with the percentages?

We know you are just gamboling about with the true percentages, hiding the facts in your packs of lies. Please learn English; it will help you to communicate with English-speakers.

Response:

> > > This has been my career for three dozen years. I specialize in > > problem dog behavior. That’s all I do, that and protection dog > > training. You are one of the incompetents that I have been > > trying to EXPOSE here for nine months. Judging by the fan > > mail, I’m not doing badly… Wouldn’t you agree? > Jerry – please, if there are people that need exposing John is not one > of them.  You have not seen him work with dogs.  I have.  So consider > this to be expert testimony – > but, you’ve got your hands full with your own problem dogs, that YOU are STILL having > difficulty with, because YOU are STILL mishandling them.

Jerry, what do my problems with Lewis have to do with John?  While I may not have your expertise in the dog training arena I am capable of recognizing kindness, compassion, etc. when I see it. > . One of us is wrong. I suggest > you consider MY assessment of MY FULL TIME CAREER business, to be expert testimony, as > have Superior Courts for Criminal Justice, accepted my sworn testimony.

Jerry, how can you provide expert testimony about John’s work with dogs when you’ve never seen John’s work with dogs? It is good to know however that you have worked as an expert witness in the Superior Courts for Criminal Justice.  There are some people who could use your help in the "Save Otto" thread. Have you read my post "Pit Bull Death Toll?"  There are some Pit Bulls who could use your help at the SF SPCA and CACC.  In the thread I listed a website that actually has a seperate listing for the number of pit bulls euthanized.  Have you looked at the website?  I could really use your help with this. > With every dog I have seen him work with whether a shelter dog, my dogs, > or his own he is extremely gentle, respectful and goes out of his way to > do whatever he can to build their self confidence. > Wonderful. So where does he screw up? Try starting to figure that out from the same point > that you are having difficulty with your own dogs. Basic handling, rather basic > MIShandling…

Jerry, I am not having difficulty with my dogS, I am having difficulty with one doG.  And the difficulty I am having NOW with this dog, is the same difficulty the dog already HAD when I got him.  So if the behavior is from my MIShandling… why is it that he had this behavior before I even had him? > I have yet to met > anyone who uses so much praise in working with them. > That doesn’t count if there is ANY contact on the collar, ANY pulling, ANY corrections. > It only takes ONCE, to screw up hours of progress.

Jerry, if you really want to talk about abuse go read the adoption pact at the SF SPCA website.  Read the "Save Otto" thread about how a dog is about to die for a superficial bite wound to the buttocks of someone who entered his house uninvited.  Go to talk to the powdered wigs at the Superior Courts for Criminal Justice at which you testify.  This contact with the collar stuff is way at the bottom of the list as compared to the other injustices being discussed right here on this newsgroup. In fact, as you have read I have replaced Lewis’s prong collar with a leather buckle collar and now he is gagging and choking himself – and yes I am handling the lead properly. >  In fact, he has on > several occasions gone out of his way to point it out to other people > whenever he thought they were not using enough praise when working with > their dogs (which my boyfriend has a tendency to do). > As I said, it doesn’t matter, if you are mishandling the lead, AT ALL.

How do you know that John mishandles the lead?  I’ve never seen him mishandle the lead. > So, what is it that you would like to EXPOSE about John?  That he uses > too much praise in his work with dogs? > That HE doesn’t know what the hell he is doing, for starters. Look at his posts.

The only thing I have seen in his posts with which you could possibly disagree are his comments about "gameness" in pit bulls.  I posted an experience of mine with regard to gameness in this breed.  Did you read it? > > > But fearful dogs > > > are not inherently incorrigible. > > Not unless morons like YOU abuse them. > Jerry, if John is a moron that abuses dogs, then why is he always the > one rescue volunteer at the shelter where he works, fighting to save the > lives of many of dogs considered by other as hopeless euthanasia cases. > That does not make his approach, and knowledge about training, COMPETENT! He doesn’t know > enough about training, it’s that simple. Like many of the other posters here, they SIMPLY > LACK KNOWLEDGE, INFORMATION, and EXPERIENCE.

Jerry, John is not a trainer (unless he is and just never told me).  To the best of my knowledge he is a dog owner and rescue worker.  Many posters here simply lack the knowledge, information and experience of professional trainers because they are not professional trainers.  There is a line of demarcation between non professional status and abuse. > Whereas, with this post you are accusing the > wrong man (so there goes a waste of your talents and the life of another > dog). > You can let me suffer my own guilt, I have none. I’ve got three dozen years cleaning up > the mess the people here create and THEY CONTINUE TO FIGHT to preserve their alleged > right to continue to abuse dogs, and call it training, and then blame the genetics when > they screw it up, and hang the dog, and then kill him. That is a DIRECT RESULT of > Koehler’s vicious methods. The same methods your chump chum john uses.

I don’t recall ever reading any posts in which John proclaims to use Koehler’s methods. I’ve never seen him use any of his methods on the occassions during which I’ve seen him work with dogs. > > I can’t play with odds like those…  dog’s lives are at > > stake. > Then go to the shelter or wherever it is that you work with these dogs > whose lives are at stake instead of writing this post.  It’s a waste of > your valuable time.  Its time better spent in helping a dog. > What are you afraid of, me criticizing a few morons here, or getting EVERYBODY here to > understand that they are using IRRESPONSIBLE  "training" methods?

Instead of educating people about irresponsible training methods, why not educate them as to responsible training methods?  And what am I afraid of?  I’m afraid that your desire and talent in working with dog’s with aggression issues could be put to better use elsewhere. > Many dogs are euthanized for even the > slightest show of teeth, initial display of growling, etc. that could be > cured in two hours of time with the dog.  There are not many people out > there willing and able to work with these dogs. > That’s why I’m here, why are you here? Are you trying to learn, or keep the status quo?

If I were keeping the status quo, I would not be able to see through and behind the showing of teeth, and displays of growling.  If I were keeping the status quo I would not have half the dogs that I now have in my home. — Adrienne Gremlin, Bruno, Lewis, Yoko, Freneau John Muir, "Stickeen: The Story of a Dog" http://www.sierraclub.org/john_muir_exhibit/writings/stickeen/the_sto… (In memory of Pepe, Pepper, Cinder, Rascal, Tucker, Max and Puppy)

Response:

> Hello john, > Better get out the Preparation H and I’ll help you apply it, so bend

over…Now Pull up a doughnut, and > sit down carefully… > > Jerry writes: > Thanks, john. I’m simply a poor, uneducated, dog kicking > trainer. > Not only do I have > no idea what constitutes abuse, I have > no idea what causes dogs to become > vicious and/or otherwise incorrigible. I don’t even know why dogs want

to be dogs….yuck! > This has been my career for three dozen years…. I’m so ignorant, it’s

the only thing I know how to do.  I specialize in scamming people into believing their dog has > problem dog behavior. That’s all I do…. that and  pretend protection dog > training.

You are just one of the people who has blown the whistle on me.  The truth is, I have been > trying to HIDE here for nine months. Judging by the fan I write to myself > mail, I’m doing badly… Wouldn’t you agree? John says > GENUINE abuse will tend to make dogs > fearful, not vicious. Jer: > Ever read White Fang? Dang, I wish I had, then I would have at least known

that real dogs had to eat and shit once in a while. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -John writes: > But fearful dogs > are not inherently incorrigible. Jer > Not unless morons like ME abuse them when you aren’t looking. John writes: > Sometimes > they are. Jer > Only if YOU don’t know what I AM doing and I specialize in > that kind of work. IT’S MY JOB to fool as many people as I can!! John writes: > Often they are not, and can > be brought around slowly but surely > with lots of structure and reassurance. Jer > I’m not interested in your "responsable owner" kind of talk. You are full

of shit because you see right through me. > The gig is up.

Training can rehabilitate most dogs faster than > I’ve ever dreamed possible. The problem is, you know I don’t know howe. Period. John says: > There are lots of ways that a dog might > become excessively aggressive. But > generally – and YOU really ought to under- > stand this, Mr Positive – they get that > way because it has WORKED for them. Jer > And I return the same, further reinforcing the problem, > because I don’t know any better. Ever hear of allelomimetic > behavior? Good, because that’s a word I MADE UP!!!! Despite the FAILURES,

I continue to do the same, > because it WORKED  a few times and I really thought I had everyone fooled,

at least for a while. > I can’t play with odds like those…  I won’t win…..so I cheat, and

that’s why I handle and train DIFFERENTLY than YOU people do, because I do not have > the KNOWLEDGE< and  >ABILITY,  to rehabilitate them. That’s my > job, and I guarantee every dog I train will either become a quivering mass

of insecurity because I keep shaking that f’n can in it’s face, and I don’t or ever turn away a student, at least until I empty every penny out of their bank account first.  My livelihood depends > on it> >Why do you try to live your life ethically? Don’t you know there are

pidgeons out there, just waiting to be fleeced? > Yes, there is usually some underlying > genetic predisposition for the way I behave to people.

But No, my marriage to Cindy Crawford is part of the BIG LIE.  >It is usually due to contact > with aggressive, abusive, morons like myself, that we do "IT" to PEOPLE THAT DO > NOT KNOW ANY BETTER… > YOU people like to blame the me, when YOU get stuck with the bills > . It’s easier to just walk out, > and say there are other, more worthy (with fatter purses) to "invest"  my > time with… YOU > and YOUR kind, are RESPONSIBLE for giving me a retirement program that I’d

never be able to afford without you… All that > double talk means, is, that the viciousness was caused as a > direct result of the IGNORANCE, john. The kind I endorse. The kind of

force training that I try to make everyone believe, (unsuccessfully) is > responsible for the NEEDLESS DEATHS OF MILLIONS OF DOGS EVERY > YEAR. The real dogs I write off, cause I don’t want to deal with the

mangy, flea-bitten mutts. > The dogs that are strictly imaginary, those are the kinds of dogs I work > with, and send home REHABILITATED, WITHOUT EVER CHOKING, > SHOCKING, or HANGING them first, because I couldn’t, THEY ARE FICTICIOUS!! John says: > But it’s generally only when the genetic > predisposition is reinforced through the > dog getting what it wants through aggression > that aggression becomes severe and chronic. Jer > I don’t know what YOU are talking about. Either that, or you > are lying, and I don’t think you are, because YOU are simply > not fraudulent enough to NEED to lie, like me for instance,and that I do

so, ONLY to protect myself from being > EXPOSED, by your valid and truthful accusations. > Did you get that information out of Koehler’s book? I’ll bet > you did. It’s too bad I can’t read, so I’ll just make believe that’s all

part of the BIG LIE! What the hell do you > expect, that I’m is going to say, "follow my method?? That’s > going to fail at least 100% of the time??? I’ll buy a real dog as a > last resort, and if that don’t work, just blame > you ??? Get a new name, and start all over again with a new bunch of marks to fleece? You’ve > got an excellent chance of making more ill-gotten gains, if the  second

bunch of idiots you try it on will > not fall into that ten percentile of those who actually know dogs?" Those are the > facts of life, That’s what it says in my book… > What the hell makes YOU think YOU have the right to carry on > like that??? You are really making me look bad to everybody. John says: > And this usually happens either because > people directly encourage it (amateur > guard dog training stuff) OR because people > are wimpy and give in too much. > NOW, that’s the point. I am perpetrating a disgusting, > toxic methodology, and I’m not even a doctor…..but I could play one on

TV. Period.  See the breauty of my methods is if it doesn’t work, I’ll blame the handler for not > following  advice exactly as I wrote it, and that’s why I wrote the manual

the way I did, so I could blame the handler for EVERYTHING!!!. Isn’t that the TRUTH, john? > If it isn’t, tell me what has changed in the last three dozen > years that I’ve pretended to have known these things? People getting smarter??

But damn it JOHN, I refuse to believe that things have  changed in three dozen years. That real Dogs are actually BEING TRAINED > as a DIRECT RESULT of the methods you accept and John says: > You are a genuinely ignorant person, Jerry. >Jer > Well I’ve been pretty successful scamming suckers for three dozen years,

john. YOU are the one who lacks experience and knowledge in being a real crook. The problem is,you got some strong supporters > here, and they’re exposing me, as being an ignorant, abusive moron > AND FRAUD. That’s what all the fuss is about, isn’t it, john? John says: > There are some people around here who > seem to think you have some sort of insight > to offer, and your main problem is in > presentation. They’re wrong. Jer > There you have a valid point.  The more than half > dozen competent, full time, professional trainers, who all use > somewhat different methods that all agree with you. I am > presenting INFORMATION to people that do not have the devousness or the

smallness of mind  to be able to fully understand or appreciate what I am > telling them… because I lack common sense, human decency, > and They are no longer stupid enough to listen to these abusive moron, > who will do ANYTHING to get their hard earned money. >I’ve  CAUSED intold

damage as RESULT of the ineffective, inappropriate, > inhumane, indecent, corrupt, training methods I’ve had them doing.   I perpetuate > the BIG LIE.. YOU have been indoctrinated to accept only the truth, as

disgusting as that is. > I, however,  like the line of thinking that endorses increasing

incrementally, violence, > to force control of behavior. The FINAL result is at least, a lot more

satisfying to me, if I can at least shake a little of that change out of your pockets. John says: > You have a deep > and fundamental ignorance problem, Jerry, > that all the rest of your problems stem > from. > Yes, I’m talking to people like you, lyinglynn, frantik fraud > die, lyingdogdirt, all those people I call names because down deep I know

they are right,> and I end up blaming my FAILURE on the dog’s breeding, or the > handler not being stupid  ENOUGH to follow my incomprehensible directions,

and therefore,  some day THEY will justify > KILLING ME, for being an incorrigible asshole, who doesn’t know when to

shut up, but till then I’m out to get all I can!! John says: > What is supposed to be the point of TRAINING? > JohnR > Pit Bull Libertarian > Never sneer at the power of a little > pink squeaky toy! Jer > INFORMATION IS POWER, and I don’t want you to feel like you have any

power, so let me stick my fingers up my nose and we’ll talk Little pink squeaky toys are little > pink squeaky toys, and a cigar is a cigar. It all depends on > Howe it is being used, but it really hurts if you screw up and shove the

cigar up your ass by mistake. OWY!!!! > DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS is the only real job I’m

fit for…….Hey, I wonder if this black box thing works on GATORS??? J>>> OW OW OW OW OW……guess it doesn’t

Response:

Adrienn, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > This has been my career for three dozen years. I specialize in > > > problem dog behavior. That’s all I do, that and protection dog > > > training. You are one of the incompetents that I have been > > > trying to EXPOSE here for nine months. Judging by the fan > > > mail, I’m not doing badly… Wouldn’t you agree? > > Jerry – please, if there are people that need exposing John is not one > > of them.  You have not seen him work with dogs.  I have.  So consider > > this to be expert testimony – > but, you’ve got your hands full with your own problem dogs, that YOU are STILL having > difficulty with, because YOU are STILL mishandling them. > Jerry, what do my problems with Lewis have to do with John?  While I may not have your > expertise in the dog training arena I am capable of recognizing kindness, compassion, etc. > when I see it.

Kindness, compassion etc. don’t cut the mustard around here. We need people with knowledge, capability, and experience. The road to hell was paved with good intentions. > . One of us is wrong. I suggest > you consider MY assessment of MY FULL TIME CAREER business, to be expert testimony, as > have Superior Courts for Criminal Justice, accepted my sworn testimony. > Jerry, how can you provide expert testimony about John’s work with dogs when you’ve never > seen John’s work with dogs?

Because that is my job. I can tell what a person is doing wrong as they describe the problems they are having with their dogs. > It is good to know however that you have worked as an expert witness in the Superior Courts > for Criminal Justice.  There are some people who could use your help in the "Save Otto" > thread.

They’ve already hired two, one screwed up already, and I think the "fix" is in. I don’t think anybody is going to be able to help. > Have you read my post "Pit Bull Death Toll?"  There are some Pit Bulls who could use your > help at the SF SPCA and CACC.  In the thread I listed a website that actually has a seperate > listing for the number of pit bulls euthanized.  Have you looked at the website?  I could > really use your help with this.

There’s dogs all over the world that are being mishandled, I can only reach a few. > > With every dog I have seen him work with whether a shelter dog, my dogs, > > or his own he is extremely gentle, respectful and goes out of his way to > > do whatever he can to build their self confidence. > Wonderful. So where does he screw up? Try starting to figure that out from the same point > that you are having difficulty with your own dogs. Basic handling, rather basic > MIShandling… > Jerry, I am not having difficulty with my dogS, I am having difficulty with one doG.  And > the difficulty I am having NOW with this dog, is the same difficulty the dog already HAD > when I got him.  So if the behavior is from my MIShandling… why is it that he had this > behavior before I even had him?

The problem is that you can’t break the behavior because of your prior handling and training EXPERIENCE. You have been conditioned to the mishandling errors, and now, because of your unfortunate accident, you are too tense to relax and follow my directions. It’s a common problem. Been there myself. > > I have yet to met > > anyone who uses so much praise in working with them. > That doesn’t count if there is ANY contact on the collar, ANY pulling, ANY corrections. > It only takes ONCE, to screw up hours of progress. > Jerry, if you really want to talk about abuse go read the adoption pact at the SF SPCA > website.  Read the "Save Otto" thread about how a dog is about to die for a superficial bite > wound to the buttocks of someone who entered his house uninvited.

I’ll look at the web site. But, my experience is that I’ll run into more of the same kind of ridiculous objections there, as you see me get here. People are conditioned to mishandling, and they will not change, until a Howese falls on them. I looked at the Otto thread, only a competent attorney can help, their best defense is basic trespass law, and not even dog related. > Go to talk to the > powdered wigs at the Superior Courts for Criminal Justice at which you testify.  This > contact with the collar stuff is way at the bottom of the list as compared to the other > injustices being discussed right here on this newsgroup.

That’s where you are wrong. If people learned proper handling techniques, they wouldn’t have behavior problems. > In fact, as you have read I have replaced Lewis’s prong collar with a leather buckle collar > and now he is gagging and choking himself – and yes I am handling the lead properly.

Not if he’s gagging and choking himself. Have you done the Hot And Cold Exercise, the Family Leadership Exercise, or installed a conditioned reflex to the come command??? > >  In fact, he has on > > several occasions gone out of his way to point it out to other people > > whenever he thought they were not using enough praise when working with > > their dogs (which my boyfriend has a tendency to do). > As I said, it doesn’t matter, if you are mishandling the lead, AT ALL. > How do you know that John mishandles the lead?  I’ve never seen him mishandle the lead.

That’s because you are not familiar with positive thigmotaxis, except that it is operant every time you take the dog on lead. > > So, what is it that you would like to EXPOSE about John?  That he uses > > too much praise in his work with dogs? > That HE doesn’t know what the hell he is doing, for starters. Look at his posts. > The only thing I have seen in his posts with which you could possibly disagree are his > comments about "gameness" in pit bulls.  I posted an experience of mine with regard to > gameness in this breed.  Did you read it?

I’m not big on the PB talk, the mentality of the pb people turns me off. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > > But fearful dogs > > > > are not inherently incorrigible. > > > Not unless morons like YOU abuse them. > > Jerry, if John is a moron that abuses dogs, then why is he always the > > one rescue volunteer at the shelter where he works, fighting to save the > > lives of many of dogs considered by other as hopeless euthanasia cases. > That does not make his approach, and knowledge about training, COMPETENT! He doesn’t know > enough about training, it’s that simple. Like many of the other posters here, they SIMPLY > LACK KNOWLEDGE, INFORMATION, and EXPERIENCE. > Jerry, John is not a trainer (unless he is and just never told me).  To the best of my > knowledge he is a dog owner and rescue worker.  Many posters here simply lack the knowledge, > information and experience of professional trainers because they are not professional > trainers.  There is a line of demarcation between non professional status and abuse.

Then tell him to learn something before he goes off half cocked at the pound, determining which dogs are going to live or die. It’s the same thing with Janet. A moron with a big yap, no talent, and a position that they are not prepared to deal with competently, making decisions and giving lousy advice. > > Whereas, with this post you are accusing the > > wrong man (so there goes a waste of your talents and the life of another > > dog). > You can let me suffer my own guilt, I have none. I’ve got three dozen years cleaning up > the mess the people here create and THEY CONTINUE TO FIGHT to preserve their alleged > right to continue to abuse dogs, and call it training, and then blame the genetics when > they screw it up, and hang the dog, and then kill him. That is a DIRECT RESULT of > Koehler’s vicious methods. The same methods your chump chum john uses. > I don’t recall ever reading any posts in which John proclaims to use Koehler’s methods.

Ask him. > I’ve never seen him use any of his methods on the occassions during which I’ve seen him work > with dogs.

I don’t shit in the street, either. > > > I can’t play with odds like those…  dog’s lives are at > > > stake. > > Then go to the shelter or wherever it is that you work with these dogs > > whose lives are at stake instead of writing this post.  It’s a waste of > > your valuable time.  Its time better spent in helping a dog. > What are you afraid of, me criticizing a few morons here, or getting EVERYBODY here to > understand that they are using IRRESPONSIBLE  "training" methods? > Instead of educating people about irresponsible training methods, why not educate them as to > responsible training methods?

That’s why I’m here. But everybody is out to cover their own dirty asses, by trying to negate everything I say. And likewise for any other competent trainer. Many others have been here, and are run off by the people you pal around with here in rpdb. FACT. >  And what am I afraid of?  I’m afraid that your desire and > talent in working with dog’s with aggression issues could be put to better use elsewhere.

NOPE. Not for a while. NOT until this stinking pig sty is cleaned up. > > Many dogs are euthanized for even the > > slightest show of teeth, initial display of growling, etc. that could be > > cured in two hours of time with the dog.  There are not many people out > > there willing and able to work with these dogs. > That’s why I’m here, why are you here? Are you trying to learn, or keep the status quo? > If I were keeping the status quo, I would not be able to see through and behind the showing > of teeth, and displays of growling.

What do you see going on behind the teeth and growling from the rpdb regulars that you are so impressed with? Perhaps you haven’t seen enough of their posts? > If I were keeping the status quo I would not have half > the dogs that I now have in my home.

Until you learn more effective methods, you are … read more »

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>right to continue to abuse dogs, and call it training, and then blame the genetics when >they screw it up, and hang the dog, and then kill him. That is a DIRECT RESULT of >Koehler’s vicious methods. The same methods your chump chum john uses.

     Still posting while blind there jer-jer? Why don’t you show us all where he trains via Koehlers methods? And as far as it goes John has dome more for dogs you ever have , you’re to busy indulging in self important puffery to do much for dogs.

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>You obviously haven’t gotten to the good part yet.  Howe about if she

   And Howe about that for a telltale sign. Ya screwed up jer-jer.

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> >You obviously haven’t gotten to the good part yet.  Howe about if she >    And Howe about that for a telltale sign. Ya screwed up jer-jer.

Why would I ever post anonymously? That’s not for me. I’m sticking it to you pigs DIRECTLY… I want you bastards to know EXACTLY who it is killing you bums. That’s my bag, and I’m not going to post anonymously ANYWHERE, at ANYTIME, for ANY REASON… DRAINING THE SWAMP, AND RELOCATING THE GATORS… J>>> "CUSTOM WILL RECONCILE PEOPLE TO ANY ATROCITY." G.B. Shaw. "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives."                                              Leo Tolstoy Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated more complaints to my personal email than any other controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:                                             caveat If you have to do things to your dog to train him, that you would rather not have to do, then you shouldn’t be doing them. If you have a dog trainer that tells you to jerk your dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes, shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, or punish him in any manner, that corrections are appropriate, that the dog won’t think of you as the punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they can’t train your dog to do what you want, look for a trainer that knows Howe. Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Wits’ End Dog Training http://www.doggydoright.com Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.                       -Francis Bacon- There are terrible people who, instead of solving a problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who come after.  Who ever can’t hit the nail on the head should, please, not hit at all.                      -Nietzsche- The abilities to think, rationalize and solve problems are learned qualities. The Wits’ End Dog Training Method challenges the learning centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged, develop and continue to grow exponentially, to make him smarter. The Wits’ End Dog Training method capitalizes on praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant corrections, and scolding.                   -Jerry Howe-

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >You obviously haven’t gotten to the good part yet.  Howe about if she > >chews up your shoes? >    And Howe about that for a telltale sign. Ya screwed up jer-jer. > Why would I ever post anonymously? That’s not for me. I’m sticking it to you > pigs DIRECTLY… I want you bastards to know EXACTLY who it is killing you > bums. That’s my bag, and I’m not going to post anonymously ANYWHERE, at > ANYTIME, for ANY REASON…

    Yup OldDog, caught him. I saw it too. And now methinks he doest protest too much. If it hadn’t been him, he’d not have need to scream it. <G> MB

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>> > > This has been my career for three dozen years. I specialize in > > > problem dog behavior. That’s all I do, that and protection dog

I’ve never met anyone else who thinks they had a "career" at the age of 14. Janet Boss Best Friends Dog Obedience "Nice Manners for the Family Pet" "Second-hand dogs AREN’T second-rate" Filtered Bliss – AHH……

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> >> > > This has been my career for three dozen years. I specialize in >> > > problem dog behavior. That’s all I do, that and protection dog > I’ve never met anyone else who thinks they had a "career" at the age of 14. > Janet Boss

I grew up in the business. J>

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>I’ve never met anyone else who thinks they had >a "career" at the age of 14. >Janet Boss

Actually Janet I was buying and selling antiques since before that : ) Paulette~ A dogs life is too short…    Their only fault,really…

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>>I’ve never met anyone else who thinks they had >a "career" at the age of 14. >Janet Boss >Actually Janet I was buying and selling antiques since before that : ) >Paulette~

But did you think you were an expert, or did you realize you were still learning? Janet Boss Best Friends Dog Obedience "Nice Manners for the Family Pet" "Second-hand dogs AREN’T second-rate" Filtered Bliss – AHH……

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>I’ve never met anyone else who thinks they had >a "career" at the age of 14. >Janet Boss >Actually Janet I was buying and selling antiques >since before that : ) >Paulette~ >But did you think you were an expert, or did you >realize you were still learning? >Janet Boss

Oh geezzzzzzzz I just blew the Booker’s all over the screen! Now in all honesty you have to remember I was a precocious only child! So…… What do you think??? doG forgive me! Paulette ~ A dogs life is too short…    Their only fault,really…

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>Oh geezzzzzzzz I just blew the Booker’s all over the screen! >Now in all honesty you have to remember I was a precocious only child! >So…… >What do you think??? >doG forgive me! >Paulette ~

Let me rephrase:  Now that you are a relatively sane adult, do you realize that you have learned an enormous amount since the age of 14, and you weren’t, in relaity, the expert you probably THOUGHT you were, at that age? Heck – I trained my first dog when I was 14, but unlike Jerry-boy, I didn’t consider myself a professional.  I was a KID (even if I was an incredibly bright, talented kid ;-D – and I’m the "baby" of four – how we all wound up type-"a" people is anyone’s guess!). Janet Boss Best Friends Dog Obedience "Nice Manners for the Family Pet" "Second-hand dogs AREN’T second-rate" Filtered Bliss – AHH……

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